The information you outline here is all very interesting, but a lot of this is similar to the kind of arguments used by David Irving and very dangerous right wing ideologues who are close to being neo-nazi.



No! They are not similar, and they are not similar in any way, shape, or form.

It's one thing to dispute arguments put forward by an avowed right-wing extremist, and quite another to lump them in, with arguements put forward by Jewish writers, academics, and journalists.

You're trying to make the situation into one of a straight forward black, or white scenario.

It's not, and it's not, by a long way.

To suggest, or infer, that any examination of this part of history is taboo, and beyond any form of scrutiny, is to go along with precisely what Zionists use it for.

What happened sixty five years ago, has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with what is happening today.

You are obsessesd with discounting facts, in preference for accepting just one fact.

That is not a very objective way of analysing, or looking at the situation.

There is cause and effect with most things. It's no good just looking at "effect", and ignoring "cause", even if that cause was merely a perception.




Now, don't misunderstand me, I'm not accusing you of that, just saying that the arguments are similar.

I'm strongly of the view that people should be able to believe whatever they want to, and even propogate it, as long as there is no incitement to violence or hate.


It matters not a jot what you (or anyone else) accuses me off. My conscience is clean, and I have nothing to hide. I provided you with credible proof and evidence, from sources which have not been ridiculed, or rejected, as some form of cranks.

That it goes against the grain in what has been traditionally taught makes everyone (including me) feel uncomfortable. But that's no reason to sweep it under the carpet, in favour of mythical far fetched horror stories, that have been proved to be totally bogus.



I think it is wrong to have an offence of holocaust denial (as in some Eurpean countries), despite my support for Israel and belief that the holocaust was the worst crime in the history of the world, and was the main justification for the founding of the modern state of Israel.


What offence! It has been artificially manufactuered and lobbied for years by Zionists, purely for economic purposes.
It's a billion dollar industry. Do you think Israel is going to give up on it?

If I disagee with Nobel prize winner Eli Wiesel, when he says, "that corpses oozed blood out of the ground for months afterwards", does that make me a Holocaust denier?

Can you find a doctor anywhere who would agree that such a phenomena was possible?

He would have to be certifiably insane.

Am I supposed to respect this cross between Nelson Mandela, and Sister Theresa, when so much of what he wrote has been proved to have been fictional?

Most of his own eye witness accounts, have been discounted as complete fabrications, and absolutely impossible to have taken place, in a way and manner to which he has described...


http://www.rense.com/general70/elie.htm


But could you just answer these questions simply and directly,(without sending a mass of information, where the answers get obscured within a ton of other informatiom, some of which may be erudite and some not):

How can anyone ask the questions you have asked and discount evidence???

Believe me I have only sent you relevant information. What kind of research can you do if you don't look at the actual information which is available on a subject.

That's the same as a juror saying I don't need to examine evidence just give me an answer, (preferably one which fits in with what I already think I know).

http://www.rense.com/general34/ZAND.HTM


http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/antisemitism/nazisupport.c fm

Again you ignore all arrangements, and agreements between Zionists and the Nazi Party.

You accept that the Nazi Party changed and morphed into something that was completely different from when it started out, (remember it was a democratically elected party then).

Why do you find it so difficult to accept that Zionism likewise, has gone through many changes to where it is today..


1. Do you believe that close to 6 million Jews were murdered by the Nazi's or not?

I believe it is entirely possible that up to six million people died. I'm not sure I would want to use the word "murdered", in relation to that number. It would also depend on the timeframe, and how many were just displaced.


2. If not, roughly how many do you think were murdered by the Nazi's?


As above

3. Do you accept that Treblinka, Belzec and Sobibor were set up with the intention of being killing factories for European Jews (and Auschwitz-Birkenau certainly became one after 1942)? (I accept that the camps in Germany were different)



There is a mass of contradictory evidence on this subject including impartial examination of sites.

One of the more recent investigations involved Australian scientists, using X-Ray equipment on the ground. They were unable to find any sites where the earth had been removed due to exhumations, they were also unable to find evidence of fire pits..

You may wish to read through this document.

http://www.rense.com/general78/hol.htm

4. No attempt was made by the allies to stop these killings, even after they became known about in about 1943-1944. (I fully accept that little may have been able to be achieved, but an attempt would have been very symbolic).

That is a statement rather than a question..

I'm just genuinely trying to understand your position.

The information you outline here is all very interesting, but a lot of this is similar to the kind of arguments used by David Irving and very dangerous right wing ideologues who are close to being neo-nazi.

Now, don't misunderstand me, I'm not accusing you of that, just saying that the arguments are similar.

I'm strongly of the view that people should be able to believe whatever they want to, and even propogate it, as long as there is no incitement to violence or hate.

I think it is wrong to have an offence of holocaust denial (as in some Eurpean countries), despite my support for Israel and belief that the holocaust was the worst crime in the history of the world, and was the main justification for the founding of the modern state of Israel.

But could you just answer these questions simply and directly,(without sending a mass of information, where the answers get obscured within a ton of other informatiom, some of which may be erudite and some not):

1. Do you believe that close to 6 million Jews were murdered by the Nazi's or not?


Here's the difficulty in arriving or trying to fix on a number.

http://www.nizkor.org/

Now are you a Holocaust denier, because your assertion with regard to a number, differs from this one on the Nizkor site?

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/israeli/yad-vashem/yvs16-08. html

Notice how precise the number and the dates are in the account,
268,000 people killed in one five week period, from July 23rd-August 28th 1942.


Yet another article this time from the Daily Mail, it deals with the death of a survivor of allegedly seven camps, and mentions his incarceration in Treblinka for ten months.

But he doesn't arrive at Treblinka until September 1942. he claims to have been "snatched" or "grabbed", just before entering the gas chambers, (one of ten) in his account.
He then proceeds to describe the next ten months clearly saying that on average 10,000 people a day were killed there.

'Death is constantly before our eyes,' he wrote. 'New transports arrive all the time. On average, 10,000 people per day are murdered. There was one day when the human transport reached 24,000.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1302964/Last-victim- Treblinka-He-survived-SEVEN-Nazi-concentration-camps--nightm are-caught-him.html#ixzz0wXqZyB7s


If true, in that period coupled with the previous one that would mean that as many as 3,268,000 people were killed in just one camp, and that doesn't include all the other deaths that occurred there from, disease, shootings, starvation, hangings, etc, etc.

It also doesn't include any deaths from before the period mentioned, or afterwards.

So now my question to you is a straight forward one. Do you believe that this many (at least) were killed in just one camp during an eleven month period, and if so why has there not been any independent corroborating evidence to substantiate it?


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1302964/Last-victim- Treblinka-He-survived-SEVEN-Nazi-concentration-camps--nightm are-caught-him.html




2. If not, roughly how many do you think were murdered by the Nazi's?


3. Do you accept that Treblinka, Belzec and Sobibor were set up with the intention of being killing factories for European Jews (and Auschwitz-Birkenau certainly became one after 1942)? (I accept that the camps in Germany were different)
4. No attempt was made by the allies to stop these killings, even after they became known about in about 1943-1944. (I fully accept that little may have been able to be achieved, but an attempt would have been very symbolic).

I'm just genuinely trying to understand your position.

The information you outline here is all very interesting, but a lot of this is similar to the kind of arguments used by David Irving and very dangerous right wing ideologues who are close to being neo-nazi.

Now, don't misunderstand me, I'm not accusing you of that, just saying that the arguments are similar.

I'm strongly of the view that people should be able to believe whatever they want to, and even propogate it, as long as there is no incitement to violence or hate.

I think it is wrong to have an offence of holocaust denial (as in some Eurpean countries), despite my support for Israel and belief that the holocaust was the worst crime in the history of the world, and was the main justification for the founding of the modern state of Israel.

But could you just answer these questions simply and directly,(without sending a mass of information, where the answers get obscured within a ton of other informatiom, some of which may be erudite and some not):

1. Do you believe that close to 6 million Jews were murdered by the Nazi's or not?
2. If not, roughly how many do you think were murdered by the Nazi's?
3. Do you accept that Treblinka, Belzec and Sobibor were set up with the intention of being killing factories for European Jews (and Auschwitz-Birkenau certainly became one after 1942)? (I accept that the camps in Germany were different)
4. No attempt was made by the allies to stop these killings, even after they became known about in about 1943-1944. (I fully accept that little may have been able to be achieved, but an attempt would have been very symbolic).

I'm just genuinely trying to understand your position.