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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lawnmower
Oh so that’s it then.
Let’s go with your subjective judgement after watching him once, maybe twice last year ? Or do you have a Wolves season ticket you’ve not been telling us about.
Or perhaps compare the facts over a full season both playing for similarly successful sides
Ralls v Neves
Goals 7-6
Assists 4-1
Yellows 8-11
Reds 0-1
Key Passes 1.9-2.0
Average Rating 7.29- 7.22
Ariels 1.9-0.9
Pass % 66.9-84.9
Tackles 2.4-2.3
Interceptions 1.3-1.7
Clearances 1.4-1.2
Apart from the pass % I reckon Ralls does well on the rest and prior to Warnock arriving that was around 80% as well... although that didn’t work out well. Defensively he scores higher on 3 of the 4 key measures
As I said... underrated even by our own fans.
I’ve seen him play way more than 2 times a season though. And it isn’t just my opinion on him listen to any podcast or read any article on him and he’s always been thought of as one of the next big things.
I’ve seen him and ralls more than enough to make a judgement too, one will play in the champions league and one will play in the championship.
I think ralls is a good player but I’m not blinded by enough by loyalty to compare them.
Also if you want to bring statistics into it look at that passing stat, they’re midfielders.
If I can’t jdge neves how can you? You didn’t even know he was a defensive midfielder!
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Thé main reason I never want to talk about football is because of how biased people are. You can think someone is good without him playing for your side.
And just because a player plays for your side you don’t have to think he’s better than any other midfielder.
I bet you were laughing at the wolves ramsey thread too now you’re tarring us with the brush or ralls being better than neves!
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jamieccfc
You can manipulate stats to tell what you want I've seen him on telly a few times and he's clearly far better than Ralls
😂😂
Firstly I’m not manipulating stats.
I’m quoting direct stats some of which are favourable some aren’t.
I’ve already said that Neves is probably better attack wise, but Ralls probably better defensively. So it’s not like I’m making an outrageous statement here.
These stats are based on a whole season- how the **** is that manipulative?
Second, you’ve seen him on TV a few times.. if you think that over rides a whole season’s worth of data , which you seem quite happy to ignore...then I’ll leave you to your subjective judgement.
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
Thé main reason I never want to talk about football is because of how biased people are. You can think someone is good without him playing for your side.
And just because a player plays for your side you don’t have to think he’s better than any other midfielder.
I bet you were laughing at the wolves ramsey thread too now you’re tarring us with the brush or ralls being better than neves!
You accuse me of bias, but then ignore completely all the facts I put up.
😂
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
I’ve seen him play way more than 2 times a season though. And it isn’t just my opinion on him listen to any podcast or read any article on him and he’s always been thought of as one of the next big things.
I’ve seen him and ralls more than enough to make a judgement too, one will play in the champions league and one will play in the championship.
I think ralls is a good player but I’m not blinded by enough by loyalty to compare them.
Also if you want to bring statistics into it look at that passing stat, they’re midfielders.
If I can’t jdge neves how can you? You didn’t even know he was a defensive midfielder!
Did you not read what I said originally?
I said Ralls was probably better defensively- so you pick ONE stat out that has nothing to do with defending FFS.
Some of you need to calm down a bit
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jamieccfc
I like Ralls but I often wonder if I’m watching the same player as some
Agree. I think his ball control sometimes lets him down. He sometimes needs to long on the ball and invariably gets it taken off him against better opponents. Was lacking against Man city last week. That said he had some very good games last season and with a bit more sharpness about him would hold his own in the premiership.
Spedger
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lawnmower
Did you not read what I said originally?
I said Ralls was probably better defensively- so you pick ONE stat out that has nothing to do with defending FFS.
Some of you need to calm down a bit
Ralls isn’t better defensively though, Neves best position is defensive midfield. He’s just very good at attacking too.
I’m not saying ralls is a bad player but he isn’t in Neves’ league in any aspect of his game.
Like you can pick any stats you want but I’ve seen them both play enough and I know which one will have a better career.
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lawnmower
You accuse me of bias, but then ignore completely all the facts I put up.
😂
I haven’t ignored them but they don’t tell the full story. Modric never got many assist or goals at spurs and was derided for it then signed for Madrid and has won the world player of the year.
You can selectively use stats all you want but they don’t tell the full story.
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lawnmower
����
Firstly I’m not manipulating stats.
I’m quoting direct stats some of which are favourable some aren’t.
I’ve already said that Neves is probably better attack wise, but Ralls probably better defensively. So it’s not like I’m making an outrageous statement here.
These stats are based on a whole season- how the **** is that manipulative?
Second, you’ve seen him on TV a few times.. if you think that over rides a whole season’s worth of data , which you seem quite happy to ignore...then I’ll leave you to your subjective judgement.
I didn't mean you manipulate them but I didn't word it very well :biggrin: what I meant was stats are manipulated in general. I've only seen mbappe a few times on telly but I know he's better than zahore
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
I haven’t ignored them but they don’t tell the full story. Modric never got many assist or goals at spurs and was derided for it then signed for Madrid and has won the world player of the year.
You can selectively use stats all you want but they don’t tell the full story.
FFS they are not SELECTIVE stats.
They are the full stats for a season.
They cover virtually every aspect of play
They are the most objective measure of comparison and the funny thing is, you clearly aren’t prepared to take them on board as they don’t match your judgement based on a few TV games.
I’ve put them out there so everyone can see the facts for themselves.
Same as the original article did.
That’s fine, it’s your choice, but I certainly will take account of this when I make my judgement
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jamieccfc
I didn't mean you manipulate them but I didn't word it very well :biggrin: what I meant was stats are manipulated in general. I've only seen mbappe a few times on telly but I know he's better than zahore
That’s not a very strong argument is it 😂
The stats I’ve given have been put together by people who have no motive to manipulate and I certainly haven’t doctored them.
There could be factors which affect them, ie Ralls winning more headers due to the way we play and scoring more due to pens, Neves pass % benefitting from the way Wolves play, but the stats are exactly what they are.
By the way... it’s Zohore 👍
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
Ralls isn’t better defensively though, Neves best position is defensive midfield. He’s just very good at attacking too.
I’m not saying ralls is a bad player but he isn’t in Neves’ league in any aspect of his but he isn’t in Neves’ league in any aspect of his gamegame.
Like you can pick any stats you want but I’ve seen them both play enough and I know which one will have a better career.
‘’but he isn’t in Neves’ league in any aspect of his game’’
So, which games did you see Neves play in and what defensive work did he do that particularly impressed you ?
I’m interested now.
I like a bit of analysis- especially when you make statements like the one above, despite most of the statistical evidence showing the opposite.
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lawnmower
FFS they are not SELECTIVE stats.
They are the full stats for a season.
They cover virtually every aspect of play
They are the most objective measure of comparison and the funny thing is, you clearly aren’t prepared to take them on board as they don’t match your judgement based on a few TV games.
I’ve put them out there so everyone can see the facts for themselves.
Same as the original article did.
That’s fine, it’s your choice, but I certainly will take account of this when I make my judgement
But I’ve seen them play plenty of times, i think ralls is a decent player and will play in the upper championship lower premiership unless he massively improves.
Neves is a top class midfielder who controls and game. He will play in a top league and in the champions league for the majority of his career.
The stats show they both had good seasons last season and they did. But that doesn’t mean neves isn’t a far superior player.
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Are you also ignoring the fact that neves is almost 4 years younger than Ralls? Do you think when he’s 24 Neves will be playing for a club like us in a relegation battle?
And finally do you actually think Ralls is a better player than Neves?
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Sounds like Roathy has hacked Lawnmowers account
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Lawnmower do you think Ralls will ever get an England cap? Neves already has 7 caps for Portugal ffs.
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
Are you also ignoring the fact that neves is almost 4 years younger than Ralls? Do you think when he’s 24 Neves will be playing for a club like us in a relegation battle?
And finally do you actually think Ralls is a better player than Neves?
Why are you changing the question ?
I asked you what games you’d seen Neves play and what defensive work he’d done that stood out, and you’ve just come up with stuff about the future that nobody will know for sure.
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
But I’ve seen them play plenty of times, i think ralls is a decent player and will play in the upper championship lower premiership unless he massively improves.
Neves is a top class midfielder who controls and game. He will play in a top league and in the champions league for the majority of his career.
The stats show they both had good seasons last season and they did. But that doesn’t mean neves isn’t a far superior player.
The stats show that Ralls was a more effective defender last season.
And that Neves is much better at retaining possession.
And yes I agree they aren’t everything, but they are an important measure when comparing 2 players.
The rest is just opinion
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lawnmower
The stats show that Ralls was a more effective defender last season.
And that Neves is much better at retaining possession.
And yes I agree they aren’t everything, but they are an important measure when comparing 2 players.
The rest is just opinion
So maybe Neves is doing his job a lot better than Ralls which results in the fact he doesn't have to defend as often
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lawnmower
The stats show that Ralls was a more effective defender last season.
And that Neves is much better at retaining possession.
And yes I agree they aren’t everything, but they are an important measure when comparing 2 players.
The rest is just opinion
How do they show he was more effecfive? Neves interceptions and and tackles add up to more than Ralls?
And due to Wolves dominating posession, thanks to Neves, they had less defending to do.
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
How do they show he was more effecfive? Neves interceptions and and tackles add up to more than Ralls?
And due to Wolves dominating posession, thanks to Neves, they had less defending to do.
So it’s OK to judge players on their stats now ? Interesting
So you are intentionally ignoring headers and clearances ?
Morrison might as well not turn up tomorrow as it seems heading and clearing are not part of defending 😂
And I was accused of manipulating the stats 😂
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lawnmower
So it’s OK to judge players on their stats now ? Interesting
So you are intentionally ignoring headers and clearances ?
Morrison might as well not turn up tomorrow as it seems heading and clearing are not part of defending 😂
And I was accused of manipulating the stats 😂
That’s because Cardiff play hoofball he’s bound to have more headed challenges 😂
As for clearances Neves passes the ball out not just hoof it anywhere so wouldn’t count as a clearance.
And central midfielders aerial challengers are clearly different to those of a centre half, last man on defence, I’d expect you the know that.
Then again you thought Neves was an attacking midfielder 😄
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
[QUOTE=jamieccfc;4917874]So maybe Neves is doing his job a lot better than Ralls which results in the fact he doesn't have to defend as often[/QUOTE
😂
Or maybe it’s just Ralls does more of the dirty work, because that’s something he’s very good at.
👍
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
[QUOTE=Lawnmower;4917883]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jamieccfc
So maybe Neves is doing his job a lot better than Ralls which results in the fact he doesn't have to defend as often[/QUOTE
😂
Or maybe it’s just Ralls does more of the dirty work, because that’s something he’s very good at.
👍
Get on the phone to Pep, Tim. You could save him 60/70 million if he signs Ralls instead of Neves. Even at 5% commission that’s a cool 3/3.5mm for you. 👍🏻
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
That’s because Cardiff play hoofball he’s bound to have more headed challenges 😂
As for clearances Neves passes the ball out not just hoof it anywhere so wouldn’t count as a clearance,
Heading is a key part of a defensive game as are clearances.
You have to win your battles .
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
[QUOTE=J R Hartley;4917884]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lawnmower
Get on the phone to Pep, Tim. You could save him 60/70 million if he signs Ralls instead of Neves. Even at 5% commission that’s a cool 3/3.5mm for you. 👍🏻
Now you are just being rude 😂
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Sorry Tim but you’re too biased you was the same with the Sane tackle
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
That’s because Cardiff play hoofball he’s bound to have more headed challenges 😂
As for clearances Neves passes the ball out not just hoof it anywhere so wouldn’t count as a clearance.
And central midfielders aerial challengers are clearly different to those of a centre half, last man on defence, I’d expect you the know that.
Then again you thought Neves was an attacking midfielder 😄
That’s not what I said though is it ?
This is what I said
‘They aren’t really directly comparable Attacking wise its no contest, but I’m sure Ralls is better defensively and that’s just as important especially for a side like us who have very little of the ball.‘
What’s the matter with you all ?
Can’t you debate this properly without twisting what I have posted ?
Is it that difficult?
I can clearly see what your opinions are, and it’s no big deal, so why resort to this ?
Do you really think it’ll change my opinion ?
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lawnmower
Why are you changing the question ?
I asked you what games you’d seen Neves play and what defensive work he’d done that stood out, and you’ve just come up with stuff about the future that nobody will know for sure.
I’ve seen him play about 10 times for wolves plus a lot of highlights from last season plus I’ve seen him play about 2 or 3 for Portugal.
Plus I listen to a lot of European football podcasts and read a lot of football media and he’s been highly rated forever. Just like most people knew mbappé was going to be a top player before he’d even played for Monaco.
Plus I’ve seen ralls play about 100 times he’s a decent player for our level and nothing more.
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Re: Interesting article on Joe Ralls here
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jamieccfc
Sorry Tim but you’re too biased you was the same with the Sane tackle
Yeah I’m biased.
I’m also a dirty footballer who thinks the game has gone soft.
Happy 😂