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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Igovernor
Two things
1 they are not people yet they are young children who are not old enough to make these big decisions
2 To me it seems the people who are doing the suggestions are parents
Now this is really stupid.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
Let’s be fair. All 3 are nonsense. The talking snake, the Ark and the girl believing she’s a boy.
But if folk want to believe it, who are we to deny them ?
But there is scientific proof that transgender people exist. Why don’t you read up about it instead of sticking to a position you’ve just decided upon?
People were saying exactly the same thing about homosexual people 20 years ago. Why don’t you learn from history and do a bit of research before deciding something is un natural or wrong?
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Igovernor
Two things
1 they are not people yet they are young children who are not old enough to make these big decisions
2 To me it seems the people who are doing the suggestions are parents
You need to read something other than a tabloid newspaper, no children are having anything done to them that is irreversible. Some teenagers get given drugs that delay puberty but any surgery takes place after people become adults and have years of counselling.
Again the same arguments were made against gay people and kids being forced into an “ideology”. People could try being on the right side of history instead of repeating mistakes by following the odd “story” in a tabloid newspaper.
I’m sure there will be the odd instance of something wrong being done, but in the majority of cases transgender kids are handled very well. And this needed to happen because of the high number of suicides among people who identified as transgender but never had any therapy of treatment.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dave Blue
From reading many threads over many years on this message board, it looks like Christians are now the last group on earth who are shown no respect and are fair game for any offensive taunts.
Yeah I remember all those national front pages saying being a Christian is wrong, people being beat up in the street for being Christian, people being afraid to come out as Christian, kids being mocked by their teachers for being Christian. What a hard life being a Christian is.
I’ve got no problem with people being religious, just don’t use your religions “rules” to try and make other people’s lives miserable.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
Don’t you? None of them?
Yes, I don't think anyone has ever changed their gender because someone suggested it as a nice idea. Please do show me an example of it happening as I like to learn.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
Yes, I don't think anyone has ever changed their gender because someone suggested it as a nice idea. Please do show me an example of it happening as I like to learn.
Surely no one actually believes that :hehe:
Some people will believe anything a tabloid tells them ffs.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
Thanks for the info - interesting. Are we seriously expected to believe there are up to half a million people in the UK who are transgender?
Was there the same percentage in the 70's?
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Re: This is really stupid
If she wants to be identified as a boy (and I don't have a problem with that) what is she/he doing in a class full of girls!!! Shouldn't she be in a mixed sex school.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
alan_corneli
If she wants to be identified as a boy (and I don't have a problem with that) what is she/he doing in a class full of girls!!! Shouldn't she be in a mixed sex school.
:hehe: Says he does not have a problem with it then calls the boy "she/he" and then "he".
Also, I took the trouble of Googling the school in question and it is a mixed sex school. https://www.goodschoolsguide.co.uk/s...-school-oxford
Hope that alleviates your concerns for the boy.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Heisenberg
:hehe: Says he does not have a problem with it then calls the boy "she/he" and then "he".
Also, I took the trouble of Googling the school in question and it
is a mixed sex school.
https://www.goodschoolsguide.co.uk/s...-school-oxford
Hope that alleviates your concerns for the boy.
What alan_corneli, should have said is that the boy should be in a mixed class not an all girls class!
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Igovernor
What alan_corneli, should have said is that the boy should be in a mixed class not an all girls class!
Well, he didn't say that and the boy is in a mixed class... he's a boy in a class with girls.
I was the only male in a history class in a mixed sixth form school. Should they have insisted that more males have to be in the class otherwise I wouldn't have been allowed to attend?
It's depressing how out of touch with reality some people are.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Igovernor
Two things
1 they are not people yet they are young children
:hehe:
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
You need to read something other than a tabloid newspaper, no children are having anything done to them that is irreversible. Some teenagers get given drugs that delay puberty but any surgery takes place after people become adults and have years of counselling.
Again the same arguments were made against gay people and kids being forced into an “ideology”. People could try being on the right side of history instead of repeating mistakes by following the odd “story” in a tabloid newspaper.
I’m sure there will be the odd instance of something wrong being done, but in the majority of cases transgender kids are handled very well. And this needed to happen because of the high number of suicides among people who identified as transgender but never had any therapy of treatment.
You contradict yourself in the first paragraph - if teenagers are given drugs to delay puberty then children are having things to done to them that won't be able to be fixed later. There are plenty of people who detransition having felt they've made a grave error and find they are infertile and their bodies irrevocably changed. They are angry at how readily their feeling of being the other sex was ushered into transition when they were merely gay or lesbians, and just needed help and support. They then need to seek counselling for having to live in a state that was later found unnecessary.
The comparison with gay people is a false equivalence - gay people don't think of themselves in the "wrong" sexuality, and if they do it's perhaps because they can't come to terms with their homosexuality.
"The right side of history" - I don't read the tabloids on this and am a Corbyn voting atheist and I find it a little embarrassing that it's the right wing press who are mostly asking questions about transitioning kids and the attacks on women who have criticised elements of gender ideology and the flaws in self-ID. Women have been physically attacked and sent death threats and have been deplatformed and women's group meetings disrupted and intimidated for reasonably suggesting that people born male aren't the same as biological women no matter how they present. That doesn't sound like the right side of history.
It'd be interesting to see the figures on transgender suicides; the last transgender suicide I about read was about someone who couldn't stand the intense pain she was in after surgery.
Of course, it's a complex and difficult subject but that's all the more reason not to let a child decide they want to change their bodies for good when they're not yet even in high school.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
You contradict yourself in the first paragraph - if teenagers are given drugs to delay puberty then children are having things to done to them that won't be able to be fixed later.
But the drugs they are given are only temporary and the effects are completely reversable.
I think it is a complex topic though and one I don't understand fully. But the way people are going on about children being forced into choices is wrong. Children were being ignored before and that was leading to suicides.
Just saying it's bollocks isn't right either, there are biological and neurogical studies that show being transgender is a real thing.
I don't get what voting for Corbyn has to do with it tbh.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
Yes, I don't think anyone has ever changed their gender because someone suggested it as a nice idea. Please do show me an example of it happening as I like to learn.
I see you’ve turned it around, and old Croesy is straight in with the boot.
I’ve not said anywhere in this thread that anyone has ever changed their gender because someone suggested it was a good idea.
You posted that you “ don’t think anyone has”, suggesting that your not 100% sure.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
But the drugs they are given are only temporary and the effects are completely reversable.
I think it is a complex topic though and one I don't understand fully. But the way people are going on about children being forced into choices is wrong. Children were being ignored before and that was leading to suicides.
Just saying it's bollocks isn't right either, there are biological and neurogical studies that show being transgender is a real thing.
I don't get what voting for Corbyn has to do with it tbh.
I find it difficult to see the point of the temporary drugs. I thought the whole idea in not waiting for adulthood for people to transition is so its less complicated later on and that puberty blocking was there to enable that. I don't know the full facts either but I don't think you'd necessarily catch up with puberty especially after being chemically suppressed.
Fair enough, I assumed when you were talking about tabloids you meant the right wing press and as there'd been a link to Spiked I conflated it all as one side versus the other.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
But there is scientific proof that transgender people exist. Why don’t you read up about it instead of sticking to a position you’ve just decided upon?
People were saying exactly the same thing about homosexual people 20 years ago. Why don’t you learn from history and do a bit of research before deciding something is un natural or wrong?
There you go again. As it stands, the girl in this topic is exactly that. A girl. She might want to identify as a boy, but she is, at the moment, a girl.
When she gets older, she may feel the same, or even feel stronger that she’s a man trapped in a woman’s body. She can then put the wheels in motion to surgically become a man.
Only then, can she claim to be a man.
A lot of kids at that age are confused, mixed up and emotionally unstable.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
I see you’ve turned it around, and old Croesy is straight in with the boot.
I’ve not said anywhere in this thread that anyone has ever changed their gender because someone suggested it was a good idea.
You posted that you “ don’t think anyone has”, suggesting that your not 100% sure.
He wasn't talking to you though, he was talking to Gofer Blue who suggested exactly that
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
There you go again. As it stands,
1. the girl in this topic is exactly that. A girl. She might want to identify as a boy, but she is, at the moment, a girl.
2. When she gets older, she may feel the same, or even feel stronger that she’s a man trapped in a woman’s body. She can then put the wheels in motion to surgically become a man.
.
1. There are scientific studies that show you can be born with the sex of one but it doesn't mean you 100% are that gender, there is a lot of interesting work maybe give it a look before making your mind up.
2. That's why no changes that aren't reversible are made until adulthood after years of therapy.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
He wasn't talking to you though, he was talking to Gofer Blue who suggested exactly that
I wasn’t talking to you either but you’ve stepped in. That’s how MB’s work.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
I find it difficult to see the point of the temporary drugs. I thought the whole idea in not waiting for adulthood for people to transition is so its less complicated later on and that puberty blocking was there to enable that. I don't know the full facts either but I don't think you'd necessarily catch up with puberty especially after being chemically suppressed.
Fair enough, I assumed when you were talking about tabloids you meant the right wing press and as there'd been a link to Spiked I conflated it all as one side versus the other.
The temporary drugs delay puberty until adulthood so an easy transition can be made if it's deemed right after years of therapy. Stop taking the drugs and puberty happens, like nothing was ever changed.
A lot of papers are printing a lot of anti trans stuff that just isn't true at the moment, and a lot of it is following very similar criticisms that gay people were faced with. Like people being asked if they were gay and this making them gay. It's all bollocks created to sell papers and spark outrage amongst people who believe everything they read without checking it's correct.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
I see you’ve turned it around, and old Croesy is straight in with the boot.
I’ve not said anywhere in this thread that anyone has ever changed their gender because someone suggested it was a good idea.
You posted that you “ don’t think anyone has”, suggesting that your not 100% sure.
You said "don't you? None of them?", which suggests you think it has happened.
Why would you post that if you agree it hasn't? I think you're being deliberately contrary to get some replies, in which case fill your boots with someone else.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
You said "don't you? None of them?", which suggests you think it has happened.
Why would you post that if you agree it hasn't? I think you're being deliberately contrary to get some replies, in which case fill your boots with someone else.
I’m just pointing out that none of us on here are 100% that it hasn’t happened. Settle down.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
I’m just pointing out that none of us on here are 100% that it hasn’t happened. Settle down.
So you think it's realistic that someone has changed genders and undergone surgery just because someone has suggested it to them?
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
I wasn’t talking to you either but you’ve stepped in. That’s how MB’s work.
Yeah but you specifically said "I’ve not said anywhere in this thread that anyone has ever changed their gender because someone suggested it was a good idea" when no one's said you had. He said that Gofer Blue had. Which he did. That's how English works.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
The temporary drugs delay puberty until adulthood so an easy transition can be made if it's deemed right after years of therapy. Stop taking the drugs and puberty happens, like nothing was ever changed.
A lot of papers are printing a lot of anti trans stuff that just isn't true at the moment, and a lot of it is following very similar criticisms that gay people were faced with. Like people being asked if they were gay and this making them gay. It's all bollocks created to sell papers and spark outrage amongst people who believe everything they read without checking it's correct.
This is a forum for having a chat about everything and I'm wary of treating it like we're all writing PhD dissertations but there are a fair few vague assertions in there, CB. A quick google will show there are still doubts about whether puberty blocking is harmless, and there have been criticisms of gender ideology that have been conflated as "anti-trans". And because people asked gays if their sexuality was a mental illness doesn't mean you can't ask other people the same question about their identity.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Heisenberg
Well, he didn't say that and the boy is in a mixed class... he's a boy in a class with girls.
I was the only male in a history class in a mixed sixth form school. Should they have insisted that more males have to be in the class otherwise I wouldn't have been allowed to attend?
It's depressing how out of touch with reality some people are.
But he's NOT a boy, or am I on the wrong tack all together.
If she's a girl who wants to be a boy, does she wear girls clothes or boys clothes.
Oh b*ll*cks, what am I doing in this thread. I really don't care.... just hope she/he get's to be who she/he want's to be.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
alan_corneli
But he's NOT a boy, or am I on the wrong tack all together.
If she's a girl who wants to be a boy, does she wear girls clothes or boys clothes.
Oh b*ll*cks, what am I doing in this thread. I really don't care.... just hope she/he get's to be who she/he want's to be.
I feel your pain. It’s a mind numbing exercise getting involved in a thread like this. The usual suspects have all the answers. They’re wasted on here.
What’s your favourite flavour crisps?
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Heisenberg
Well, he didn't say that and the boy is in a mixed class... he's a boy in a class with girls.
I was the only male in a history class in a mixed sixth form school. Should they have insisted that more males have to be in the class otherwise I wouldn't have been allowed to attend?
It's depressing how out of touch with reality some people are.
She’s actually a girl in a class of other girls, or has she had the sex change surgery already??
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
She’s actually a girl in a class of other girls, or has she had the sex change surgery already??
You can't say "It’s a mind numbing exercise getting involved in a thread like this. The usual suspects have all the answers" and then post on the subject when you clearly don't have a clue about it.
Google the difference between sex and gender, mate, and then decide if you want to ask that stupid question again.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Heisenberg
You can't say "It’s a mind numbing exercise getting involved in a thread like this. The usual suspects have all the answers" and then post on the subject when you clearly don't have a clue about it.
Google the difference between sex and gender, mate, and then decide if you want to ask that stupid question again.
At this present moment in time she is a girl.
She can asked to be identified as anything she wants, but she is still a girl.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
At this present moment in time she is a girl.
She can asked to be identified as anything she wants, but she is still a girl.
Why don't you try and learn about a topic before steaming in with such a strong opinion on it?
There is a difference between sex and gender, there is scientific proof of this even if it is in it's infancy. I don't understand people having such strong opinions on things without trying to get all the facts first.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
At this present moment in time she is a girl.
She can asked to be identified as anything she wants, but she is still a girl.
Well, I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong because I've seen what you're like when someone tells you that... but the boy's school obviously disagrees with your prehistoric, ignorant opinion - which is all that matters really.
It's disappointing to see the amount of assumptions and jumping to conclusions in this thread by posters about the situation in Oxford and transgender issues in general. Why bother jumping in with arguments or hypotheses on things you've not read properly or be bothered to learn about.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
Why don't you try and learn about a topic before steaming in with such a strong opinion on it?
There is a difference between sex and gender, there is scientific proof of this even if it is in it's infancy. I don't understand people having such strong opinions on things without trying to get all the facts first.
Why can’t you accept that the girl may feel as though she’s a boy trapped in a girls body, but that is something she will have to face up to later in life, if she still feels the same way.
At this precise moment in time, all the science in the world doesn’t alter the fact that she’s a girl.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Heisenberg
Well, I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong because I've seen what you're like when someone tells you that... but the boy's school obviously disagrees with your prehistoric, ignorant opinion - which is all that matters really.
It's disappointing to see the amount of assumptions and jumping to conclusions in this thread by posters about the situation in Oxford and transgender issues in general. Why bother jumping in with arguments or hypotheses on things you've not read properly or be bothered to learn about.
The school has probably been frogmarched into accepting it to please folk like you.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
Why can’t you accept that the girl may feel as though she’s a boy trapped in a girls body, but that is something she will have to face up to later in life, if she still feels the same way.
At this precise moment in time, all the science in the world doesn’t alter the fact that she’s a girl.
What point are you even trying to make? She is a female by sex and a male by gender.
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
The school has probably been frogmarched into accepting it to please folk like you.
Seething
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
The school has probably been frogmarched into accepting it to please folk like you.
It really bothers you, doesn't it? :hehe:
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Heisenberg
It really bothers you, doesn't it? :hehe:
You couldn’t be further from the truth. But I could identify as someone who’s bothered if it would please you and Croesy 😁
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Re: This is really stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
You couldn’t be further from the truth. But I could identify as someone who’s bothered if it would please you and Croesy
Yep... you're definitely stinging about the whole thing :hehe:
You've spent about 10 posts arguing that transgenderism isn't real but reality and society (and UK law) isn't on your side of the argument. Must hurt like a bitch when things you're against in society happen without your approval :hehe: