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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
This is probably a good time to link to the political compass analysis of historical figures.
Attachment 3327
https://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2
Ronnie, if the crux of your argument is that anti-semitism is more important because Hitler was a socialist then unless you have a vault of compelling evidence, i think we are probably at the point where it can be categorically said that you are physically incapable of being objective on this subject.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
What, in your opinion, did Chris Williamson MP say or do that was anti-semitic?
Ask the Labour party they suspended him ,then tried to reinstate him ,got rebuffed by the courts ,what a lovely man and party they are these days by trying to reinstate him they clearly can't see any problems with this antisemitism :
And as Boris has a rightful being challenged by the courts its only right I hare the courts view on his behavior and that of the Labour party attempt to reinstate him ::
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-50002636
An MP has lost his High Court bid to be reinstated to the Labour Party after he was suspended in an anti-Semitism row.
Chris Williamson was suspended in February after claiming Labour had "been too apologetic" in its response to criticism of handling allegations.
He was reinstated in June but was suspended again after a backlash from MPs, peers and Jewish groups.
However the judge also ruled Labour acted unlawfully when it reopened the disciplinary case against the MP.
The Derby North MP, who raised more than £60,000 to fund his legal challenge, remains suspended from the party but he said he would continue to fight to clear his name.
'No reason for reopening case'
In his ruling, Mr Justice Pepperall said the Labour Party "acted unfairly in that there was no proper reason for reopening the case against Mr Williamson".
However, he said there was "nothing in the new allegations, the timing of the letter of 3 September or the decision to suspend that entitles me to take the view upon the papers that the Labour party is acting either unfairly or other than in good faith".
"I therefore refuse relief in respect of Mr Williamson's recent re-suspension. The new disciplinary case must run its course," he said.
Mr Justice Pepperall said: "It is important to stress at the outset of this judgement that this case is not about whether Mr Williamson is, or is not, anti-Semitic or even whether he has, or has not, breached the rules of the Labour Party.
"The issue is whether the party has acted lawfully in its investigation and prosecution of such charges against Mr Williamson."
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
This is probably a good time to link to the political compass analysis of historical figures.
Attachment 3327
https://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2
Ronnie, if the crux of your argument is that anti-semitism is more important because Hitler was a socialist then unless you have a vault of compelling evidence, i think we are probably at the point where it can be categorically said that you are physically incapable of being objective on this subject.
No one should be objective about something they've considered for over half a century then decided upon. What you mean is that we have differing opinions on the matter, which I doubt could be resolved by anyone changing their mind.
Forget Hitler then ,for the purposes of this conversation . Stalin was certainly a socialist , and he probably killed more Jews than Hitler.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
It goes way beyond that, Eric. The crux of his argument (or assertion) is not just that socialists are nazis and nazis are anti-semites, therefore socialists are anti-semites, but that the British Labour Party - or at least large parts of it - are planning a bloodbath against Jewish people! He's pumping out this shit whilst wallowing in holocaust denial and anti-semitic tropes (that would have him on a disciplinary charge if he was a member of the British Labour Party!) and proudly announcing a hierarchy of racism that marginalises brown skinned victims. I don't think it is physical incapacity that is the problem, but cognitive incapacity maybe. Either that or extreme trolling by a very sad case. At the risk of feeding the troll:
https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-t...ade-unionists/
https://fullfact.org/online/nazis-socialists/
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Ask the Labour party they suspended him ,then tried to reinstate him ,got rebuffed by the courts ,what a lovely man and party they are these days by trying to reinstate him they clearly can't see any problems with this antisemitism :
And as Boris has a rightful being challenged by the courts its only right I hare the courts view on his behavior and that of the Labour party attempt to reinstate him ::
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-50002636
An MP has lost his High Court bid to be reinstated to the Labour Party after he was suspended in an anti-Semitism row.
Chris Williamson was suspended in February after claiming Labour had "been too apologetic" in its response to criticism of handling allegations.
He was reinstated in June but was suspended again after a backlash from MPs, peers and Jewish groups.
However the judge also ruled Labour acted unlawfully when it reopened the disciplinary case against the MP.
The Derby North MP, who raised more than £60,000 to fund his legal challenge, remains suspended from the party but he said he would continue to fight to clear his name.
'No reason for reopening case'
In his ruling, Mr Justice Pepperall said the Labour Party "acted unfairly in that there was no proper reason for reopening the case against Mr Williamson".
However, he said there was "nothing in the new allegations, the timing of the letter of 3 September or the decision to suspend that entitles me to take the view upon the papers that the Labour party is acting either unfairly or other than in good faith".
"I therefore refuse relief in respect of Mr Williamson's recent re-suspension. The new disciplinary case must run its course," he said.
Mr Justice Pepperall said: "It is important to stress at the outset of this judgement that this case is not about whether Mr Williamson is, or is not, anti-Semitic or even whether he has, or has not, breached the rules of the Labour Party.
"The issue is whether the party has acted lawfully in its investigation and prosecution of such charges against Mr Williamson."
No answer then. Not surprised.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Even the uber Left, pro Palestinian leader of the lib dems thinks Corbyn and Labour are anti Semitic .
Eric splits hairs between Nazis and socialists , but the only people supporting Herr Corbyn's dream seem to be socialists
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
It goes way beyond that, Eric. The crux of his argument (or assertion) is not just that socialists are nazis and nazis are anti-semites, therefore socialists are anti-semites, but that the British Labour Party - or at least large parts of it - are planning a bloodbath against Jewish people! He's pumping out this shit whilst wallowing in holocaust denial and anti-semitic tropes (that would have him on a disciplinary charge if he was a member of the British Labour Party!) and proudly announcing a hierarchy of racism that marginalises brown skinned victims. I don't think it is physical incapacity that is the problem, but cognitive incapacity maybe. Either that or extreme trolling by a very sad case. At the risk of feeding the troll:
https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-t...ade-unionists/
https://fullfact.org/online/nazis-socialists/
What are you on about anti Semitic tropes ? You're just making up plain lies now, the last resort of the scoundrel when found out !
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
Even the uber Left, pro Palestinian leader of the lib dems thinks Corbyn and Labour are anti Semitic .
Eric splits hairs between Nazis and socialists , but the only people supporting Herr Corbyn's dream seem to be socialists
You know Swinson is just making political capital from it.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
No one should be objective about something they've considered for over half a century then decided upon. What you mean is that we have differing opinions on the matter, which I doubt could be resolved by anyone changing their mind.
Forget Hitler then ,for the purposes of this conversation . Stalin was certainly a socialist , and he probably killed more Jews than Hitler.
What socialist policies did put in place that killed people? Authoritarian leaders murder people, Pinochet was an arch capitalist and liked to kill people, no one is claiming he did that because he believed in free market economics.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
So LOM, no answer then to my question of what he said or did that was anti-semitic. Not surprised.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_...n_(politician)
In 2017 Williamson described antisemitism as being "utterly repugnant and a scourge on society, which is why I stand in absolute solidarity with anyone who is subjected to antisemitic abuse". He added that his critics' "accusations of anti-Semitism (against him) were positively sinister" and "highly offensive and hurtful" in suggesting "that I was an anti-Semite myself, yet I have fought racism all my adult life".
In February 2019, Williamson was criticised for booking a room in the Houses of Parliament for a screening of Witch Hunt, a film about suspended party member Jackie Walker, to be hosted by Jewish Voice for Labour. At the same time, a video was published by The Yorkshire Post of him telling a Momentum meeting in Sheffield that the party was being "demonised as a racist, bigoted party", partly because, in response to criticism, the party had "given too much ground (and) been too apologetic", going on to say "We've done more to address the scourge of anti-Semitism than any other political party."
Williamson apologised for his comments saying: "I deeply regret, and apologise for, my recent choice of words when speaking about how the Labour Party has responded to the ongoing fight against antisemitism inside of our party. I was trying to stress how much the party has done to tackle anti-Semitism". On 27 February 2019, he was put under formal notice of investigation, and later that day suspended from the party.
The court case you quote resulted in a ruling that Labour's re-suspension after his readmitance in June was unlawful - a victory of sorts for Williamson although not the way the national press reported it. He was re-suspended in September for very similar reasons to the first time and the court said that disciplinary action must take its course.
Paul Evans (TOBW) wrote in another thread on the anti-semitism crisis in Labour that Chris Williamson on the radio came over to him as very unsympathetic. I can't remember the exact words he used but the impression was that Williamson was strident and not very personable. He is clearly an embarrassment to the Labour leadership who didn't want any defence of the party's actions or push back against those denouncing them. Paul's comments fit with my own impression of Chris Williamson. But I have never seen any evidence of anti-semitic words or actions from him, despite the avalanche of condemnation from the media and his political enemies.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
No one should be objective about something they've considered for over half a century then decided upon. What you mean is that we have differing opinions on the matter, which I doubt could be resolved by anyone changing their mind.
Forget Hitler then ,for the purposes of this conversation . Stalin was certainly a socialist , and he probably killed more Jews than Hitler.
Uncle Joe didn't discriminate against who he killed. He was happy to murder anyone without fear or favour
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
Even the uber Left, pro Palestinian leader of the lib dems thinks Corbyn and Labour are anti Semitic .
Eric splits hairs between Nazis and socialists , but the only people supporting Herr Corbyn's dream seem to be socialists
Jo Swinson Uber Left 😱 Gosh you've got a lot to learn about politics haven't you!
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
It goes way beyond that, Eric. The crux of his argument (or assertion) is not just that socialists are nazis and nazis are anti-semites, therefore socialists are anti-semites, but that the British Labour Party - or at least large parts of it - are planning a bloodbath against Jewish people! He's pumping out this shit whilst wallowing in holocaust denial and anti-semitic tropes (that would have him on a disciplinary charge if he was a member of the British Labour Party!) and proudly announcing a hierarchy of racism that marginalises brown skinned victims. I don't think it is physical incapacity that is the problem, but cognitive incapacity maybe. Either that or extreme trolling by a very sad case. At the risk of feeding the troll:
https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-t...ade-unionists/
https://fullfact.org/online/nazis-socialists/
I've noticed he's steadfastly refused to offer any comment on the Armenian genocide despite my asking him his views on the topic twice. In his defence it's likely he's not aware of the story but instead of googling Latin phrases if he only bothered to google this awful episode of human cruelty he may gain a useful insight into other tragedies which never seem to gain as much publicity.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
I can only say that you're a sad little git Dorcas
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
So LOM, no answer then to my question of what he said or did that was anti-semitic. Not surprised.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_...n_(politician)
In 2017 Williamson described antisemitism as being "utterly repugnant and a scourge on society, which is why I stand in absolute solidarity with anyone who is subjected to antisemitic abuse". He added that his critics' "accusations of anti-Semitism (against him) were positively sinister" and "highly offensive and hurtful" in suggesting "that I was an anti-Semite myself, yet I have fought racism all my adult life".
In February 2019, Williamson was criticised for booking a room in the Houses of Parliament for a screening of Witch Hunt, a film about suspended party member Jackie Walker, to be hosted by Jewish Voice for Labour. At the same time, a video was published by The Yorkshire Post of him telling a Momentum meeting in Sheffield that the party was being "demonised as a racist, bigoted party", partly because, in response to criticism, the party had "given too much ground (and) been too apologetic", going on to say "We've done more to address the scourge of anti-Semitism than any other political party."
Williamson apologised for his comments saying: "I deeply regret, and apologise for, my recent choice of words when speaking about how the Labour Party has responded to the ongoing fight against antisemitism inside of our party. I was trying to stress how much the party has done to tackle anti-Semitism". On 27 February 2019, he was put under formal notice of investigation, and later that day suspended from the party.
The court case you quote resulted in a ruling that Labour's re-suspension after his readmitance in June was unlawful - a victory of sorts for Williamson although not the way the national press reported it. He was re-suspended in September for very similar reasons to the first time and the court said that disciplinary action must take its course.
Paul Evans (TOBW) wrote in another thread on the anti-semitism crisis in Labour that Chris Williamson on the radio came over to him as very unsympathetic. I can't remember the exact words he used but the impression was that Williamson was strident and not very personable. He is clearly an embarrassment to the Labour leadership who didn't want any defence of the party's actions or push back against those denouncing them. Paul's comments fit with my own impression of Chris Williamson. But I have never seen any evidence of anti-semitic words or actions from him, despite the avalanche of condemnation from the media and his political enemies.
I think Chris Williamson was never viewed as the contrite supplicant begging for forgiveness from the Jewish community which would have suited Labour hierarchy's naive attempt to get this issue done and dusted and thrown on the back burner. He was probably too honest for his own good and much less pliable than was wished for.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
Uncle Joe didn't discriminate against who he killed. He was happy to murder anyone without fear or favour
You seem to say that with some empathy. In fact he discriminated a lot but let's not let the facts get in the way. Have you ever thought of stalking people on some other message board ?
Or maybe you already do that ?
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
You seem to say that with some empathy. In fact he discriminated a lot but let's not let the facts get in the way. Have you ever thought of stalking people on some other message board ?
Or maybe you already do that ?
No I don't find stalking very interesting thanks. Are you so hostile to anyone who questions your views?
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
No, especially when they do it rationally and they're not closet anti Semites or nutters who stalk people
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
I can only say that you're a sad little git Dorcas
No I'm as happy as hell Ronnie, especially when I expose fascists. Oh and I'm a big guy by the way so not so little.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Yeah that's it - expose the facsists by going for the Jews.
I mean I'm only guessing ,and I've got better things to do really, but I don't think I believe you're " a big guy " , unless you mean fat. It's a known fact that socialists are usually physically weak men - that's why they're attracted to the idea of someone else providing for them.
I'd guess that you're either a schoolteacher or someone who couldn't even manage that , but remains locked in a nostalgic fantasy of your high point in life when you were in school.
I mean , this is all very rude and frank, but it's always been a trait of my personality that I tend not to take shit from anyone so what's good for the goose s good for the gander.
Only difference is that I'm solid and you're fake. I expect you've got a history of making unfortunate people and kids feel bad about themselves with your empty bullshit but you'll hit a wall with me on any level so don't tell me you're " a big guy" .
I keep telling you, go and stalk someone else because all you'll get out of me is being told to **** right off. Maybe pick on someone weaker ?
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
Yeah that's it - expose the facsists by going for the Jews.
I mean I'm only guessing ,and I've got better things to do really, but I don't think I believe you're " a big guy " , unless you mean fat. It's a known fact that socialists are usually physically weak men - that's why they're attracted to the idea of someone else providing for them.
I'd guess that you're either a schoolteacher or someone who couldn't even manage that , but remains locked in a nostalgic fantasy of your high point in life when you were in school.
I mean , this is all very rude and frank, but it's always been a trait of my personality that I tend not to take shit from anyone so what's good for the goose s good for the gander.
Only difference is that I'm solid and you're fake. I expect you've got a history of making unfortunate people and kids feel bad about themselves with your empty bullshit but you'll hit a wall with me on any level so don't tell me you're " a big guy" .
I keep telling you, go and stalk someone else because all you'll get out of me is being told to **** right off. Maybe pick on someone weaker ?
Ha ha you just love the ad hominem abuse don't you Ronnie because you haven't the wherewithal to construct an intelligent debate. Good luck loser!
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
No, you're not kidding anyone . Like so many freaks you accuse people of what you do yourself.
You don't do debate, intelligent or otherwise. You just get hold of ( wrong) personal details about people and start posting them in some half arsed attempt to be sinister ,which is VERY creepy, then you try to make them feel unhappy or insecure.
Who knows how many teenagers you've head ****ed, because you probably get lucky sometimes!
Unfortunately , because you're stupid like most bullies ,you've got no ****ing idea who or what you're dealing with, and you've got no possible chance of competing with me on any level so forget it.
It's a nuisance because I've got better things to do than arguing the toss with some stalking nutter who I wouldn't ordinarily speak to, but I'll do it for the sake of weaker people you might latch on to.
Keep on with the crap and you'll keep getting the same answer.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
No, you're not kidding anyone . Like so many freaks you accuse people of what you do yourself.
You don't do debate, intelligent or otherwise. You just get hold of ( wrong) personal details about people and start posting them in some half arsed attempt to be sinister ,which is VERY creepy, then you try to make them feel unhappy or insecure.
Who knows how many teenagers you've head ****ed, because you probably get lucky sometimes!
Unfortunately , because you're stupid like most bullies ,you've got no ****ing idea who or what you're dealing with, and you've got no possible chance of competing with me on any level so forget it.
It's a nuisance because I've got better things to do than arguing the toss with some stalking nutter who I wouldn't ordinarily speak to, but I'll do it for the sake of weaker people you might latch on to.
Keep on with the crap and you'll keep getting the same answer.
You're obviously a deranged piece of shit with delusions of grandeur but without the ability to play the role. Well I'm afraid it's time to put you back in your little box and therefore you're back on ignore. You were given a chance to redeem yourself but failed miserably.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Can we end this lunacy about Jo Swinson being "uber left" now please.Attachment 3332
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
You're obviously a deranged piece of shit with delusions of grandeur but without the ability to play the role. Well I'm afraid it's time to put you back in your little box and therefore you're back on ignore. You were given a chance to redeem yourself but failed miserably.
No you did. As I said, you're not kidding anyone, and it's not up to you to award "redemption" to me or anyone else. I wish you were being truthful about putting me on ignore but in any case stop stalking me and trying to pry into me and keep up the pretence by not addressing me. I won't add to that in the hope that you'll have no further excuse to keep on
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Can we end this lunacy about Jo Swinson being "uber left" now please.
Attachment 3332
Well, these things are relative . The whole of Uk politics , on the tail of EU politics has moved so far to the left that British society is unrecognisable from the country which was one of the icons of the free world . I shouldn't really have added the prefix of "uber" because it's nothing more than a fashionable buzz word, but by traditional standards she's quite lefty.
There are conservatives now that I'd regard as left leaning, so she's hardly unique being drawn to one side by this very destructive invisible magnate.
Fortunately though, it's not representative of everyday regular people, just the Westminster bubble , so that's our best hope.
I don't personally support any political party but in this case we need a clear conservative win to force the elitist politicians to heed the vote we had. Beyond that , I think that anyone who trusts any of them is daft because all they'll ever produce is hot air and social divisions from which they'll personally benefit .
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
A courageous stand by yet another labour figure. There's little doubt that this Nazi revival we've seen examples of in this thread is being seen for what it it at this point.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/v...stin-nk52kpmng
"Mr Austin’s greatest concern is the rise of antisemitism in the Labour Party. “Most shamefully of all they have allowed a party with the proudest record of fighting racism and standing up for equality to be poisoned with racism against Jewish people and it is a complete and utter disgrace,” he said."
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
A courageous stand by yet another labour figure. There's little doubt that this Nazi revival we've seen examples of in this thread is being seen for what it it at this point.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/v...stin-nk52kpmng
"Mr Austin’s greatest concern is the rise of antisemitism in the Labour Party. “Most shamefully of all they have allowed a party with the proudest record of fighting racism and standing up for equality to be poisoned with racism against Jewish people and it is a complete and utter disgrace,” he said."
If he hates racists he wouldn't have just taken a job working for the party that brought you windrush and the pm who makes Muslims the punchline of his jokes.
Strange move. So many potential masts to nail his colours to and he chooses Boris??
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Not the point Eric
Point is that Labour is being clearly and I think correctly seen as so infested with dangerous anti semites that we cannot allow them to be in government. There are many other articles today including one saying that 50% of Jewish people would consider leaving the uk if Corbyn were elected because they’d fear for their safety
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
If he hates racists he wouldn't have just taken a job working for the party that brought you windrush and the pm who makes Muslims the punchline of his jokes.
Strange move. So many potential masts to nail his colours to and he chooses Boris??
The Tory Party seems to be hoovering up a group of unlovely anti-Corbyn ex-Labour MPs and giving them jobs. Most of them are no loss to any political party - especially Labour.
John Mann has been given a ticket to the Lords and appointed 'Antisemitism Tsar' by Johnson. Ian Austin is to become the Tories' trade envoy to Israel. John Woodcock (still with the sexual harassment allegations unresolved) has been appointed by Johnson as 'special government envoy to tackle violent extremism'.
It wouldn't surprise me to see a clutch of other ex-Labour MPs pop up with similar new job titles and similar prime media slots to slag off Corbyn and Labour. They will all be on Dominic Cummings' whiteboard and primed to detonate when he thinks they will have most effect. Cynical and hypocritical but will it have any effect? Maybe at the far margins?
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
The Tory Party seems to be hoovering up a group of unlovely anti-Corbyn ex-Labour MPs and giving them jobs. Most of them are no loss to any political party - especially Labour.
John Mann has been given a ticket to the Lords and appointed 'Antisemitism Tsar' by Johnson. Ian Austin is to become the Tories' trade envoy to Israel. John Woodcock (still with the sexual harassment allegations unresolved) has been appointed by Johnson as 'special government envoy to tackle violent extremism'.
It wouldn't surprise me to see a clutch of other ex-Labour MPs pop up with similar new job titles and similar prime media slots to slag off Corbyn and Labour. They will all be on Dominic Cummings' whiteboard and primed to detonate when he thinks they will have most effect. Cynical and hypocritical but will it have any effect? Maybe at the far margins?
All aboard the Gravy Train.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
The Tory Party seems to be hoovering up a group of unlovely anti-Corbyn ex-Labour MPs and giving them jobs. Most of them are no loss to any political party - especially Labour.
John Mann has been given a ticket to the Lords and appointed 'Antisemitism Tsar' by Johnson. Ian Austin is to become the Tories' trade envoy to Israel. John Woodcock (still with the sexual harassment allegations unresolved) has been appointed by Johnson as 'special government envoy to tackle violent extremism'.
It wouldn't surprise me to see a clutch of other ex-Labour MPs pop up with similar new job titles and similar prime media slots to slag off Corbyn and Labour. They will all be on Dominic Cummings' whiteboard and primed to detonate when he thinks they will have most effect. Cynical and hypocritical but will it have any effect? Maybe at the far margins?
Kate Hoey next.
Ian Austin has had an axe to grind for a long long time. He is using antisemitism as political point scoring.
I'm not saying that antisemitism doesn't exist in the Labour party, but to use Ian Austin as your evidence for raging antisemitism is foolish.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
Not the point Eric
Point is that Labour is being clearly and I think correctly seen as so infested with dangerous anti semites that we cannot allow them to be in government. There are many other articles today including one saying that 50% of Jewish people would consider leaving the uk if Corbyn were elected because they’d fear for their safety
What reasons did they give for that position? I see no evidence that Jewish people would be discriminated against under a labour government. Maybe you can change my mind with examples of discrimation currently taking place within the party.
Can't help but feel that if it was any other group in society the same people latching onto this would be condemning them for being 'anti-british' or something equally ridiculous and that hypocrisy for party political reasons is rotten.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Len McCluskey pussyfooting around again:
'Treacherous hypocrite @IanAustin1965 calling for a Tory vote in the general election is no surprise.'
'He turned his back on @UKLabour values many, many years ago.'
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
John McDonnell on the Jewish Chronicle front page attack today:
"Look, everything that has been asked of us by the Jewish community we’ve done. We were asked to look at antisemitism in the party and we’ve done a detailed investigation. We’ve identified a small, a tiny number, of antisemitic activities and we’ve dealt with it. We were asked to ensure we had disciplinary procedures that were fast, and I was saying ruthless as well, and that’s what we’ve done. We’ve expelled people. We were asked to setup an education programme. We’ve done that with independent organisations. I just say to them, have a look again at the reality of what we’ve done because actually we’ve done everything asked of us."
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Jeremy Corbyn on the Jewish Chronicle front page attack today:
"Antisemitism is a poison and an evil in our society. Any form of racism is a poison and an evil in our society. I have spent my whole life fighting against racism. I will die an anti-racist.
"I want every community to feel safe and supported in this country - the Jewish community, the Muslim community, any other community from any faith or any other part of the world.
"Our party has confronted the issue. We have suspended or expelled members. We have an education programme. And all of that has been set up since I became the leader of this party. And we will carry on doing exactly that.
"There are many Jewish people in this country who are members of the Labour party, supporters of the Labour party, work with the Labour party, and they do not share the views that have been put forward that have been put forward on the front page of the Jewish Chronicle. I regret the Jewish Chronicle has chosen to say that.
"I simply say to everyone, our community is stronger when people work together, when we recognise the danger and poison that antisemitism is. We will be a stronger community when we defeat all forms of racism. And I will be part of that campaign to eradicate racism in any form."
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
What reasons did they give for that position? I see no evidence that Jewish people would be discriminated against under a labour government. Maybe you can change my mind with examples of discrimation currently taking place within the party.
Can't help but feel that if it was any other group in society the same people latching onto this would be condemning them for being 'anti-british' or something equally ridiculous and that hypocrisy for party political reasons is rotten.
Their reasons are almost beside the point Eric. Their fears may or may not be justified, but the effect will be the same either way, which is that lots of people believe labour to be a bunch of anti Semites and will therefore not vote for them.
Now ,right here in this thread we've seen examples. You've been perfectly rational and logical in your defence of labour, but two others have come up with exactly the kind of thing which causes the mistrust , defending anti semitism and adding a bit of their own .
It's reasonable to say that there are so many examples of anti semitism in that party that it's certainly a problem. I'm sure it's one which could be quickly solved if they stopped denying or defending it, but they won't . I'm also sure that 99% of labour voters aren't either anti Semites of nutters, but it's that 1% or less who worry decent people, especially when they're right at the top of the party .
I don't want to start this circular discussion again about whether the Nazis were theoretically socialists, but most Jewish people I know seem to think they were to all practical purposes, and I've heard many hypothesising about how they could quickly transform this subtle anti Jew theme into open hostility just as the Nazis did if they got into power.
They'd certainly bankrupt the country quite quickly with their current mad policies and a return to the days of power cuts, reduced working weeks and real poverty they'd create would be just the environment for trouble - how long before they blamed the Jews for the chaos they'd created ?
Last time they did the real socialist thing, ( which Blair didn't ), Dennis Healey hadn't alienated the USA, so they could go begging to the imf to bail them out, but these nutters would be so openly hostile to the free world that this wouldn't be an option.
Who would be blamed ? Who gets blamed every time a dictator wants a scapegoat , and this one knows he'd have a sympathetic audience amongst his supporters ?
Are these realistic fears ? Who knows, but they're real fears, and so they'll have real effects
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
Their reasons are almost beside the point Eric. Their fears may or may not be justified, but the effect will be the same either way, which is that lots of people believe labour to be a bunch of anti Semites and will therefore not vote for them.
Now ,right here in this thread we've seen examples. You've been perfectly rational and logical in your defence of labour, but two others have come up with exactly the kind of thing which causes the mistrust , defending anti semitism and adding a bit of their own .
It's reasonable to say that there are so many examples of anti semitism in that party that it's certainly a problem. I'm sure it's one which could be quickly solved if they stopped denying or defending it, but they won't . I'm also sure that 99% of labour voters aren't either anti Semites of nutters, but it's that 1% or less who worry decent people, especially when they're right at the top of the party .
I don't want to start this circular discussion again about whether the Nazis were theoretically socialists, but most Jewish people I know seem to think they were to all practical purposes, and I've heard many hypothesising about how they could quickly transform this subtle anti Jew theme into open hostility just as the Nazis did if they got into power.
They'd certainly bankrupt the country quite quickly with their current mad policies and a return to the days of power cuts, reduced working weeks and real poverty they'd create would be just the environment for trouble - how long before they blamed the Jews for the chaos they'd created ?
Last time they did the real socialist thing, ( which Blair didn't ), Dennis Healey hadn't alienated the USA, so they could go begging to the imf to bail them out, but these nutters would be so openly hostile to the free world that this wouldn't be an option.
Who would be blamed ? Who gets blamed every time a dictator wants a scapegoat , and this one knows he'd have a sympathetic audience amongst his supporters ?
Are these realistic fears ? Who knows, but they're real fears, and so they'll have real effects
If someone is scared of something and they don't know why, what can you do to stop that? If some Jewish people are going to vote against Corbyn specifically because they think he is going to cause harm to their way of life then what can anybody do about that. In my opinion it is nonsense and I think if such seemingly outlandish claims were made by any other minority group or about any other political party they would be laughed off here and they certainly would get the column inches and air time that this gets.
It probably will have an effect on the result, like thousands of other things.
I found this story funny and unsettling in equal measure - https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/m...green-1.491017