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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trampie09
No idea what you are talking about ?, don't know what Corbyn's famous remark is - therefore it cant be that famous. Not all Catholics for example are foreign either so no idea what your point is. Bercow is not obviously Jewish, otherwise I would have known that he was Jewish and I didn't, its not possible to tell if a person walking down the street next to you is CoE, non-conformist, pagan etc etc even if you are given their name you mostly cant tell and Bercow's family changed their name [like the Queens crowd] to sound more English.
It reminds me of something amusing. Think Irving Berlin. Lots and lots of but certainly not all Jews adopted Anglicised names when they emigrated to the US and UK in order to blend in more seamlessly.
I'm the case of Irving Berlin (and quite a few others) the name Irving was chosen because it was considered to be a popular English Christian name. However, this name had long since lost its currency with native English speakers and was thought anachronistic.
Ironically it eventually merely served to uncover Jewish identity because by that time the name was only used among Jews.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
It reminds me of something amusing. Think Irving Berlin. Lots and lots of but certainly not all Jews adopted Anglicised names when they emigrated to the US and UK in order to blend in more seamlessly.
I'm the case of Irving Berlin (and quite a few others) the name Irving was chosen because it was considered to be a popular English Christian name. However, this name had long since lost its currency with native English speakers and was thought anachronistic.
Ironically it eventually merely served to uncover Jewish identity because by that time the name was only used among Jews.
Don't know this Berlin feller, John Bercow's name is...…...well its John and that was a popular name at the time he was given it, Bercow's family anglicised their surname just like part of the Royal Family did, are the English Royal Family Jewish ?
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
No, they're German. John is a Jewish name of course.
Point being Trampie , is that if they had a foreign name that's because they were foreign , not because they're Jewish. Jews are not necessarily foreign you see, and many Jews have British surnames.
The famous Corbyn remark was telling Jews that they don't understand British humour or something similar and the suggestion that Jews might change their names to sound British is , ( unintentionally I'm sure), a very similar thing.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
No, they're German. John is a Jewish name of course.
Point being Trampie , is that if they had a foreign name that's because they were foreign , not because they're Jewish. Jews are not necessarily foreign you see, and many Jews have British surnames.
The famous Corbyn remark was telling Jews that they don't understand British humour or something similar and the suggestion that Jews might change their names to sound British is , ( unintentionally I'm sure), a very similar thing.
Catholics aren't necessarily foreign either, this famous Corbyn remark is so famous that I've never heard of it and you clearly don't know it yourself hence why you said ''or something similar'' , I don't have the faintest idea what you are talking about, are you trying to make some kind of snowflake woke point or something ?
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trampie09
Catholics aren't necessarily foreign either, this famous Corbyn remark is so famous that I've never heard of it and you clearly don't know it yourself hence why you said ''or something similar'' , I don't have the faintest idea what you are talking about, are you trying to make some kind of snowflake woke point or something ?
Where are we getting the the idea that Catholics are foreign Trampie ? That's a very strange comparison indeed.
The Corbyn remark was very fully covered you know , and I can't help it if it's news to you.
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/j...tions-1.485376
There you are.
Let me ask you this, just so I can gauge your thinking. If someone suggested that Paul Ince must have changed his name to sound English, would you think there was anything wrong with that ?
I might be wrong , but I don't think you intend to be nasty or rude to Jews. I just think you probably haven't thought it through and maybe you don't know many Jewish people, so you perhaps don't understand that most of them in Britain are actually British, with British names and complete loyalty to Britain . You touched upon the fact that Jewish people were in Britain during the reign Of Edward the First, ( and before), so don't you think they can now consider themselves British ?
Can you not understand that there's something unpleasant about saying they don't understand " British irony" or that they must have changed their names to " sound British " ?
Again I might be wrong, but I think you'll see my point when you think about that .
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
Where are we getting the the idea that Catholics are foreign Trampie ? That's a very strange comparison indeed.
The Corbyn remark was very fully covered you know , and I can't help it if it's news to you.
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/j...tions-1.485376
There you are.
Let me ask you this, just so I can gauge your thinking. If someone suggested that Paul Ince must have changed his name to sound English, would you think there was anything wrong with that ?
I might be wrong , but I don't think you intend to be nasty or rude to Jews. I just think you probably haven't thought it through and maybe you don't know many Jewish people, so you perhaps don't understand that most of them in Britain are actually British, with British names and complete loyalty to Britain . You touched upon the fact that Jewish people were in Britain during the reign Of Edward the First, ( and before), so don't you think they can now consider themselves British ?
Can you not understand that there's something unpleasant about saying they don't understand " British irony" or that they must have changed their names to " sound British " ?
Again I might be wrong, but I think you'll see my point when you think about that .
I don't read the Jewish Chronicle, i hear its a biased rag, do you ? and you didn't know what Corbyn said as you said ''or something similar'', Bercow's family either did or didn't change their surname, well obviously they did change their surname so what's ''unpleasant'' about that ? and what's unpleasant in noting that is what they had done ?, the same has been noted about the Queens family, so I ask again - are you trying to make some kind of snowflake woke point or something ?
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trampie09
Old Tory boy Bercow wasn't a patch on old Socialist gal Betty Boothroyd mind, Betty was a far better speaker of the HoC than Bercow was.
Never in doubt or truer statement , and unlike Bercow not a self publicist.
Just strong and decent.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trampie09
I don't read the Jewish Chronicle, i hear its a biased rag, do you ? and you didn't know what Corbyn said as you said ''or something similar'', Bercow's family either did or didn't change their surname, well obviously they did change their surname so what's ''unpleasant'' about that ? and what's unpleasant in noting that is what they had done ?, the same has been noted about the Queens family, so I ask again - are you trying to make some kind of snowflake woke point or something ?
Nothing unpleasant about changing their name. Suggesting that they needed to do that because otherwise they wouldn't be English is most unpleasant. You seem to b insisting that Jews aren't English.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Anyone notice how Herr Corbyn deliberately mispronounced Epstein in a kind of comic sinister voice tonight ?
He can't help it.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
Nothing unpleasant about changing their name. Suggesting that they needed to do that because otherwise they wouldn't be English is most unpleasant. You seem to b insisting that Jews aren't English.
I'm not suggesting anything of the sort, you are full of false accusations and come across as a woke extremist.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
Anyone notice how Herr Corbyn deliberately mispronounced Epstein in a kind of comic sinister voice tonight ?
He can't help it.
More like you cant help it RonnieBird, why are you referring to Mr Corbyn as Herr ?, Jeremy Corbyn is English, not German.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trampie09
I'm not suggesting anything of the sort, you are full of false accusations and come across as a woke extremist.
I'm getting a bit confused here Trampie, can you help me out? If I'm ethnically Jewish can I be ethnically English in the same way as if I'm ethnically Welsh can I be ethnically English? This ethnoreligious/ nationalistic question can be hard work sometimes, don't you agree?
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
I'm getting a bit confused here Trampie, can you help me out? If I'm ethnically Jewish can I be ethnically English in the same way as if I'm ethnically Welsh can I be ethnically English? This ethnoreligious/ nationalistic question can be hard work sometimes, don't you agree?
You can be whatever you like Dorcus.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
It seems like a certain group is trying to take the Labour party down, would that be a good thing for British politics to have a party that is/was [depending on your view point] a party that traditionally stood for equality and fairness become irrelevant leaving only parties on the right as the only mainstream parties ?
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
I try not to address Stalkus, but that post is openly racist and worthy of a Nazi eugenisist.
He suggests - no, openly says that people's nationality relies upon their ethnicity. Does he apply this to all races, or just Jews ?
It's a false argument based on a plain lie because there's no such thing as an English ,( or Welsh), ethnicity, and it shows that there are some seriously sinister characters lurking in the Labour Party.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
What's this Herr Corbyn comment you made RonnieBird ?
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
I was comparing him to Hitler. Stop diverting and trying to make the victims into the wrongdoers.
Your friend Stalkus has just made a blatant racist remark suggesting that Jews can't be Englsh because of their ethnicity , so why don't you question that ?
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
I don't have a friend called Stalkus and I've never heard of a Stalkus.
As regards you comparing Corbyn to Hitler that is deeply offensive to Mr Corbyn, Hitler did despicable things and to compare them is just plain ignorant and devalues the price paid by millions of people due to Hitler's actions, Corbyn is not a mass murderer and for you to compare Corbyn with Hitler is disgraceful.
It can even be argued that it is anti Semitic to label falsely and or frivolously with such ridiculous comparisons because when real anti Semitism takes places its gets treated exactly the same, so you RonnieBird is doing the cause of anti Semitism no good at all by comparing a life long anti racist campaigner to a mass murderer.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trampie09
You can be whatever you like Dorcus.
:hehe:
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trampie09
I don't have a friend called Stalkus and I've never heard of a Stalkus.
As regards you comparing Corbyn to Hitler that is deeply offensive to Mr Corbyn, Hitler did despicable things and to compare them is just plain ignorant and devalues the price paid by millions of people due to Hitler's actions, Corbyn is not a mass murderer and for you to compare Corbyn with Hitler is disgraceful.
It can even be argued that it is anti Semitic to label falsely and or frivolously with such ridiculous comparisons because when real anti Semitism takes places its gets treated exactly the same, so you RonnieBird is doing the cause of anti Semitism no good at all by comparing a life long anti racist campaigner to a mass murderer.
Since Corbyn is an anti Semite , I don't care whether it's offensive to him or not.
People should have been more offensive to Hitler when he started on this path
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
I will take Bercow's view when he says “I do not believe Corbyn is antisemitic,” before yours RonnieBird.
Are you Jewish yourself RonnieBird ?
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Does that make a difference then ?
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trampie09
I will take Bercow's view when he says “I do not believe Corbyn is antisemitic,” before yours RonnieBird.
Are you Jewish yourself RonnieBird ?
I'm glad you asked Philip that question Trampie but I doubt he'll reply. I've asked him because it will help clarify the reasons for his obsession with this subject.
I wanted to know if he or any of his family members had been affected by persecution or indeed the horrors of the Holocaust. It would enable some of us to understand his feelings and try to sympathize with his anger and hurt. However I've had no luck in eliciting any information from him.
His name doesn't appear to be of Jewish origin at first glance but as mentioned previously many had chosen to anglicise their names. Maybe it was originally Dilivitz or something similar.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Wow !
Firstly, that's why I call him Stalkus - because he tries to get personal details of other members and publicly uses what he wrongly believes to be my real name. That's freaky.
Now he tries to goad people about the hollocaust - I can't believe that you approve of that Trampie ???
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
I've no idea who or what you are talking about RonnieBird, is the ll spelling deliberate or a typo I wonder, never mind.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
These Jewish groups that are going to walk away from Labour are they going to vote for a right wing party namely the Conservative party instead of Labour ?
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
A typo obviously . Please explain what meaning it might have.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trampie09
These Jewish groups that are going to walk away from Labour are they going to vote for a right wing party namely the Conservative party instead of Labour ?
Ummm no , traditional they have been friends of the Labour movement when in the good old days Labour defended them and gavevthem a political home because of far right and Islamic extremists, however there seems to be a far left issue as well , one may now asume they have no home politically, some irony there eh ?
considering there history .
What a shit world we live in.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
https://twitter.com/JewishChron/stat...47716815491072
Seems like you are wrong 'life on mars', back in 2015 with Ed Miliband of Jewish descent in charge of Labour, Jewish people were nearly all going to vote for a right wing party in the form of the Conservative party according to a poll done for the Jewish Chronicle, no doubt those figures are higher now, one reason given is those British Jews were concerned about Israel.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
That was only four years ago Trampie. Labour didn't become the party of anti semitism overnight.
How can you not know the huge involvement of Jews in labour during the last century ?
I don't think Jews are the only people they've alienated either. The working class, ( indofar as that exists), seem pretty dissolutioned about their votes in the referrendum being ignored by labour, and business people are increasingly worried by Herr Corbyn's antics
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
https://twitter.com/Gertcha_Cowson/s...49600027979776
With Jewish people apparently going to vote on the right, its disturbing that some of them seem to have gone over to the far right in recent years, I hope its only very small numbers.
I don't think its a case of Labour needing to get its act together so much as it seems as if a number is being done on the Labour party as certain people and possibly even foreign Governments who would not want the Labour party running our country as Labour might be seen as been sympathetic to the Palestinian cause hence why a number is possibly being done on them.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trampie09
https://twitter.com/JewishChron/stat...47716815491072
Seems like you are wrong 'life on mars', back in 2015 with Ed Miliband of Jewish descent in charge of Labour, Jewish people were nearly all going to vote for a right wing party in the form of the Conservative party according to a poll done for the Jewish Chronicle, no doubt those figures are higher now, one reason given is those British Jews were concerned about Israel.
There's a very simple answer to Jewish party allegiance. This anti-Semitism ruse is a red herring. Given the fact that genetically the Jewish race is endowed with a higher intellect than the average then most have migrated to the middle classes and higher paid jobs. Exactly the constituency that tend not to vote Labour. As you suggest Trampie this is much more an economic narrative than anything else.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Jewish people aren't endowed with a higher intellect at all Dorcus, there are cultural and environmental reasons for successes and failures and I have read about both as regards them and others, false eugenics is a dangerous route to go down.
The Labour party is fast becoming the party of the middle classes, appealing to civil servants of all grades, teachers, nurses, office workers, middle management etc, if we were having this online chat a few decades ago yes but moving up to middle class I don't think is one of them at this point in time.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trampie09
Jewish people aren't endowed with a higher intellect at all Dorcus, there are cultural and environmental reasons for successes and failures and I have read about both as regards them and others, false eugenics is a dangerous route to go down.
The Labour party is fast becoming the party of the middle classes, appealing to civil servants of all grades, teachers, nurses, office workers, middle management etc, if we were having this online chat a few decades ago yes but moving up to middle class I don't think is one of them at this point in time.
I'm glad to see you challenge Stalkus' race theories Trampie, because I still don't think you're actually one of the racists in that party.
Although I usually disagree with you I have the impression that you're well intentioned.
You're right of course that in reality there are plenty of Jewish people who are neither rich nor particularly clever, but the socialist mind becomes jealous when they see hard workers succeed , and of course some Jews are successful. Now, when socialist envy is combined with low intelligence, it can quickly conclude that the Jews are bad because " they are all rich ".
I'll tell you why this is dangerous . It's because it's exactly the same thinking which hitler exploited in 1930's Germany, starting with the kind of stuff we've heard from Corbyn and gradually building until the Jews are seen as the ones who are responsible for all poverty and failure in society.
Any socialist needs someone else to blame if he ****s things up - that's a fair definition of socialism. It's a very evil philosophy which causes and has caused millions of deaths , many wars and endless human suffering. Well, we can absorb that in a democracy when they just hate anyone who's done better than them and dream of the day they can collectively mug the successful people, but when one group like the Jews are singled out we know what can happen .
Maybe you think I'm exaggerating by comparing Corbyn to hitler, but I'm not you see. This apparently low level anti semitism must be firmly rejected at an early stage or it can grow quickly.
Right here, we see two chatters ( not you ) defending it... Repeatedly "accusing" me of being Jewish and going on to say " your sort" think and do so and so. We see the worse of the two in the post above saying that Jews are " not ethnically British", and that they have a different intellect than others.
It's not nice Trampie, and I think you're better than listening to their poison
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
I'm glad to see you challenge Stalkus' race theories Trampie, because I still don't think you're actually one of the racists in that party.
Although I usually disagree with you I have the impression that you're well intentioned.
You're right of course that in reality there are plenty of Jewish people who are neither rich nor particularly clever, but the socialist mind becomes jealous when they see hard workers succeed , and of course some Jews are successful. Now, when socialist envy is combined with low intelligence, it can quickly conclude that the Jews are bad because " they are all rich ".
I'll tell you why this is dangerous . It's because it's exactly the same thinking which hitler exploited in 1930's Germany, starting with the kind of stuff we've heard from Corbyn and gradually building until the Jews are seen as the ones who are responsible for all poverty and failure in society.
Any socialist needs someone else to blame if he ****s things up - that's a fair definition of socialism. It's a very evil philosophy which causes and has caused millions of deaths , many wars and endless human suffering. Well, we can absorb that in a democracy when they just hate anyone who's done better than them and dream of the day they can collectively mug the successful people, but when one group like the Jews are singled out we know what can happen .
Maybe you think I'm exaggerating by comparing Corbyn to hitler, but I'm not you see. This apparently low level anti semitism must be firmly rejected at an early stage or it can grow quickly.
Right here, we see two chatters ( not you ) defending it... Repeatedly "accusing" me of being Jewish and going on to say " your sort" think and do so and so. We see the worse of the two in the post above saying that Jews are " not ethnically British", and that they have a different intellect than others.
It's not nice Trampie, and I think you're better than listening to their poison
Poisonous bollocks from beginning to end. Again.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
https://twitter.com/jvplive/status/1099796082874150914
Who can forget this brave lady standing up to fascist bullies.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Poisonous bollocks from beginning to end. Again.
He's exceeded even himself this time. He's a knobhead with deep seated problems. I wish he would keep his dangerous filth to himself.