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Trump on the Middle East
Listening to what he's had to say, I get the distinct feeling that he hasn't got a clue what he's talking about.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/mobile....?client=safari
He's just making it up as he goes along isn't he?
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
I don't know whether he's making it up as he goes along, listening to his advisers or whether these are his own thoughts. I expect a little of all three, though any time he gets to contrast to Obama he seems positively gleeful. Think it was Jon who echoed Bernie Sanders' in saying that the good should be supported and the bad should be opposed - this hints of something I feel should be opposed.
In slightly related news, 2 NFL football players have dropped out a tour of Israel upon learning that they (too) were going to be shown a very limited view of Israel with the hope of recruiting them to sell what it can offer. They've chosen to go and see Israel and Palestine and form their own view.
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Just read a piece on the NFL players. Wow, what a guy that Michael Bennet is. I thought the times of sports stars having a political conscience had long gone. What a great model for youngsters.
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Yep great to see those players want to see things for themselves rather than be bombarded with propaganda.
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barry Shitpeas
This will make your eyes open wider.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGA-F-Jv34M
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Yes he sounds dumb ,however although the previous clever tongued presidents have been more articulate ,they have achieved zilch.
In fact you could say it's worse now??
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CCFCPhil
Drama :biggrin:
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
He also said that Palestine will need to recognise the state of Israel - something which they have done since the 1980s apparently.
In some ways a one state solution would make sense, although the problem for Israel is that would be a majority Muslim country. So the only way that country would remain a "Jewish" state is if Muslims living there had no voting rights and were second class citizens.
Surely that isn't something we should be backing?
In an ideal world it would be a single secular state with equal rights for all but we will be waiting a while for that.
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
I don't think Trump is going to do anything good for the Middle East even by accident.
He doesn't know what he's talking about. He doesn't 'do detail' or understand the history and objectives of the main protagonists. His 'policy tweets' reflect the last conversation he had and flip-flop all over the place. He has surrounded himself with a bizarre mix of far right one-state Zionists who are determined to maintain an expansionist, settler, Jewish state protected by the USA (as opposed to a state where Jewish people can live in freedom and safety) and of far right anti semitic white supremacists.
In the meantime the best realistic compromise of a two-state solution that has emerged painfully over 20+ years through blood, sweat and tears, is about to be abandoned. Netanyahu has tried to kill it. Trump may well succeed.
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
surge
I don't know whether he's making it up as he goes along, listening to his advisers or whether these are his own thoughts. I expect a little of all three, though any time he gets to contrast to Obama he seems positively gleeful. Think it was Jon who echoed Bernie Sanders' in saying that the good should be supported and the bad should be opposed - this hints of something I feel should be opposed.
In slightly related news, 2 NFL football players have dropped out a tour of Israel upon learning that they (too) were going to be shown a very limited view of Israel with the hope of recruiting them to sell what it can offer. They've chosen to go and see Israel and Palestine and form their own view.
The Bernie Sanders quote I was trying to remember was this:
“Donald Trump tapped into the anger of a declining middle class that is sick and tired of establishment economics, establishment politics, and the establishment media,” Sanders said, echoing some of the themes of his own campaign.
“People are tired of working longer hours for lower wages, of seeing decent paying jobs go to China and other low-wage countries, of billionaires not paying any federal income taxes, and of not being able to afford a college education for their kids — all while the very rich become much richer.
“To the degree that Mr. Trump is serious about pursuing policies that improve the lives of working families in this country, I and other progressives are prepared to work with him. To the degree that he pursues racist, sexist, xenophobic, and anti-environment policies, we will vigorously oppose him,”
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
I wonder if they had a referendum in Israel with the following options, what the outcome would be..
Option the first: dismantle all illegal settlements, return Israel to the borders in the original internationally recognised agreement, maintain Israel as a jewish nation neighbouring a viable Palestinian state.
Option the second: Make one state encompassing all of Israel Palestine and disputed lands. The state is secular but equally protects the rights of Jewish and Islamic people.
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
I wonder if they had a referendum in Israel with the following options, what the outcome would be..
Option the first: dismantle all illegal settlements, return Israel to the borders in the original internationally recognised agreement, maintain Israel as a jewish nation neighbouring a viable Palestinian state.
Option the second: Make one state encompassing all of Israel Palestine and disputed lands. The state is secular but equally protects the rights of Jewish and Islamic people.
In an ideal world of course number two would be wonderful. Arabs and Jews living side by side in peace. But the idea of Jews potentially becoming a minority in such a state means that it is never going to happen.
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barry Shitpeas
In an ideal world of course number two would be wonderful. Arabs and Jews living side by side in peace. But the idea of Jews potentially becoming a minority in such a state means that it is never going to happen.
The way the demographics of the region are going they are going to have to make some version of this decision sooner rather than later.
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
I don't think Trump is going to do anything good for the Middle East even by accident.
He doesn't know what he's talking about. He doesn't 'do detail' or understand the history and objectives of the main protagonists. His 'policy tweets' reflect the last conversation he had and flip-flop all over the place. He has surrounded himself with a bizarre mix of far right one-state Zionists who are determined to maintain an expansionist, settler, Jewish state protected by the USA (as opposed to a state where Jewish people can live in freedom and safety) and of far right anti semitic white supremacists.
In the meantime the best realistic compromise of a two-state solution that has emerged painfully over 20+ years through blood, sweat and tears, is about to be abandoned. Netanyahu has tried to kill it. Trump may well succeed.
I'm not saying Trump is another Hitler or anything, but I've been watching "The Nazis, A Warning From History" in the last couple of weeks and, although I knew that he was thought to be lazy, I didn't realise quite how lazy he was until I saw last week's episode. Hitler was seen to be hardly a details man as well as the programme claimed that some of the Nazi's worst pre war excesses were more down to underlings doing what they thought the Fuhrer (who it seems was willing to rubber stamp an awful lot , rather than go deep into what was proposed) wanted, than at the insistence of the man himself.
I repeat, I'm not accusing Donald Trump of being Hitler Mark Two, but I think there appear to be some parallels in the way the two men operate(d).
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CCFCPhil
:facepalm:
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
I find it very strange he said he would remove America from wars that don't concern them.
Then yesterday they were on about ground troops in Syria.
George Bush and other experienced leaders didn't understand the dynamics and long term impact of their actions in the region, let alone TV's finest Donald who probably couldn't tell you their is a divide in islam until a few weeks ago.
The nations there will be scrabbling as I think they realise America doesn't have a concrete goal apart from protecting the usually band of merry men, Arabia Israel.
He has gone back to the suicidally tiring default position of claiming Iran is the devil.
I imagine things are going to get worse as military men will be making the decisions, not the pretend pacifist Obama.
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I'm not saying Trump is another Hitler or anything, but I've been watching "The Nazis, A Warning From History" in the last couple of weeks and, although I knew that he was thought to be lazy, I didn't realise quite how lazy he was until I saw last week's episode. Hitler was seen to be hardly a details man as well as the programme claimed that some of the Nazi's worst pre war excesses were more down to underlings doing what they thought the Fuhrer (who it seems was willing to rubber stamp an awful lot , rather than go deep into what was proposed) wanted, than at the insistence of the man himself.
I repeat, I'm not accusing Donald Trump of being Hitler Mark Two, but I think there appear to be some parallels in the way the two men operate(d).
I've seen many people who are convinced he is just like him, I have no idea what to say to these people anymore, they are comparing Trump who has never killed anyone as far as I'm aware to Hitler who killed millions, how do go about having a sensible logical conversation with someone who thinks like that? He's offensive yes, but he is not a murderer.
'The definition of indoctrination is the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically'
People are calling Trump and his supporters Nazis to dehumanise them, it gives them a easy moral justification to inflict online abuse and violence towards them, it's a very dangerous path imo.
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mrs Steve R
I've seen many people who are convinced he is just like him, I have no idea what to say to these people anymore, they are comparing Trump who has never killed anyone as far as I'm aware to Hitler who killed millions, how do go about having a sensible logical conversation with someone who thinks like that? He's offensive yes, but he is not a murderer.
'The definition of indoctrination is the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically'
People are calling Trump and his supporters Nazis to dehumanise them, it gives them a easy moral justification to inflict online abuse and violence towards them, it's a very dangerous path imo.
I agree it's a dangerous comparison, i tend to avoid making it because it tends to be counter productive.
I dont think most people making the comparison are saying that trump is going to kill 20 million people, but in the same breath i dont think Hitler in the 30s would have realised what would pan out over the coming decade.
TOBWs comparison was an interesting one and doesn't imply that trump will murder anyone. Perhaps there is a better charismatic leader who makes bold statements and leaves things for others to sort out the details who would be a better example.
Vincent Tan? Hogo Chávez? Castro?
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mrs Steve R
I've seen many people who are convinced he is just like him, I have no idea what to say to these people anymore, they are comparing Trump who has never killed anyone as far as I'm aware to Hitler who killed millions, how do go about having a sensible logical conversation with someone who thinks like that? He's offensive yes, but he is not a murderer.
'The definition of indoctrination is the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically'
People are calling Trump and his supporters Nazis to dehumanise them, it gives them a easy moral justification to inflict online abuse and violence towards them, it's a very dangerous path imo.
I think Trump is someone who has and will attract Nazi supporters, but I agree that, based on what he's done up to now anyway, there is little, if anything, to justify any claims that he is another Hitler.
I'm talking only in terms of the way Hitler and Trump approach(ed) the task of running their country and it would appear that there are what I'd say were dangerous parallels between them - nothing to do with their politics, more the type of men they are/were and whether that would be a problem in a job like that - obviously, it was for one of them.
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
If anything Trump is more interesting that Hitler as Trump could be fact-checked in almost real time and yet still people voted for him. Where Trump does compare obviously being in the early days of Hitler's leadership rather than where Nazism was leading to.
Jonathan Pie makes the point that shutting opposing views down is exactly what the left should be fighting against rather than copying, and Bernie Sanders has a video where he talks to (I think it's people in his own state) Trump voters and tries to engage in debate with the audience being pretty receptive to his views by the end. Dehumanising ordinary Trump supporters seems to be far more the former than the latter.
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninianclark
Bob - All political leaders want to get the unemployed back to work, grow the economy, give free health care to all etc. These were Hitlers priorities (Hitler was left wing) , they were also the policies of Thatcher, Tony Blair, Harold Wilson, Obama and Trump. So you see politicians from Left and Right have the same general goals - it's called Politics and it's just the rhetoric that changes
I'm not entirely sure you can claim Trump or Thatcher want free health care for all, and claiming Hitler was left wing is a stretch even if there are labour voters who despise socialism almost as much as conservatism.
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninianclark
Bob - All political leaders want to get the unemployed back to work, grow the economy, give free health care to all etc. These were Hitlers priorities (Hitler was left wing) , they were also the policies of Thatcher, Tony Blair, Harold Wilson, Obama and Trump. So you see politicians from Left and Right have the same general goals - it's called Politics and it's just the rhetoric that changes
I don't think I could have put it any clearer that what I was saying was not about politics, it was about the type of person they were/are and whether that made them temperamently suited for such a job.
Although it may not come across on here, my main misgivings about Trump are more personal than political. I'm no fan of his politics, but I dislike him mostly for the type of man he is and, if things go seriously wrong with his Presideny, I think it will be his personality that will be at the heart of it, not his politics.
Jeremy Corbyn is someone who I feel is pretty close to what I would call my politics, but almost everything I've seen from him as Labour leader says he is not temperamentally suited to the job - as you have said, he's a dissenter, not a leader. Again, it's the man, not his politics, that is the problem with Corbyn as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
I don't think Trump is going to do anything good for the Middle East even by accident.
He doesn't know what he's talking about. He doesn't 'do detail' or understand the history and objectives of the main protagonists. His 'policy tweets' reflect the last conversation he had and flip-flop all over the place. He has surrounded himself with a bizarre mix of far right one-state Zionists who are determined to maintain an expansionist, settler, Jewish state protected by the USA (as opposed to a state where Jewish people can live in freedom and safety) and of far right anti semitic white supremacists.
In the meantime the best realistic compromise of a two-state solution that has emerged painfully over 20+ years through blood, sweat and tears, is about to be abandoned. Netanyahu has tried to kill it. Trump may well succeed.
Trump never said he doesn't support a 2-state solution. He said he will back whatever agreement Israel AND Palestine think is the best for them.
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mrs Steve R
I've seen many people who are convinced he is just like him, I have no idea what to say to these people anymore, they are comparing Trump who has never killed anyone as far as I'm aware to Hitler who killed millions, how do go about having a sensible logical conversation with someone who thinks like that? He's offensive yes, but he is not a murderer.
'The definition of indoctrination is the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically'
People are calling Trump and his supporters Nazis to dehumanise them, it gives them a easy moral justification to inflict online abuse and violence towards them, it's a very dangerous path imo.
Have you asked them to substantiate their opinion?
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
Trump never said he doesn't support a 2-state solution. He said he will back whatever agreement Israel AND Palestine think is the best for them.
Who knows what he's said or what he means.
He backed off decades long US support for a 2 state solution whilst standing in a press conference next to Netanyahu - who has been actively trying to sabotage that model for years - and the even more far right members of his coalition are pulling him further and faster in that direction with (elements of) Trump administration encouragement. He said something and nothing as usual, but it seems to me the subtext was 'whatever Benjamin and his government want'!
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/16/po...ans-two-state/
Then less than a day later the US ambassador to the UN contradicted him:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7584386.html
The Trump speech has been universally interpreted as a policy U turn because that is just what it is. However a day later he could spin around again and end up where he started. It is incompetent and chaotic and very dangerous.
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninianclark
Bob - All political leaders want to get the unemployed back to work, grow the economy, give free health care to all etc. These were Hitlers priorities (Hitler was left wing) , they were also the policies of Thatcher, Tony Blair, Harold Wilson, Obama and Trump. So you see politicians from Left and Right have the same general goals - it's called Politics and it's just the rhetoric that changes
lol
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
I agree it's a dangerous comparison, i tend to avoid making it because it tends to be counter productive.
I dont think most people making the comparison are saying that trump is going to kill 20 million people, but in the same breath i dont think Hitler in the 30s would have realised what would pan out over the coming decade.
TOBWs comparison was an interesting one and doesn't imply that trump will murder anyone. Perhaps there is a better charismatic leader who makes bold statements and leaves things for others to sort out the details who would be a better example.
Vincent Tan? Hogo Chávez? Castro?
Do we have to compare him with anyone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I think Trump is someone who has and will attract Nazi supporters, but I agree that, based on what he's done up to now anyway, there is little, if anything, to justify any claims that he is another Hitler.
I'm talking only in terms of the way Hitler and Trump approach(ed) the task of running their country and it would appear that there are what I'd say were dangerous parallels between them - nothing to do with their politics, more the type of men they are/were and whether that would be a problem in a job like that - obviously, it was for one of them.
I wasn't saying that you are the same as the people I'm talking about but people are losing their minds over Trump, logic has gone out of the window for some, it's all getting a bit too crazy (even for me).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kris
Have you asked them to substantiate their opinion?
I haven't got the energy tbh, if you question anything it's just assumed that you must be a Trump supporter not because you are using common sense.
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninianclark
I saw a program a while back on Jerusalem - and how it used to be. Jews, Muslims, Christians all getting along, doing their daily stuff - taking it in turns to worship at the wall etc.
So option 2 would be better. A nation with a parliament where political parties based on religion are not allowed perhaps ?
Going back to the earliest times in Jerusalem, which is what the various religions rely on as their claim on the City.
Jews were there first, followed by Christians.
The first recognition of a Muslim presence in Jerusalem was following Muhammed's alleged Night Journey, in 621 from Mecca to the site of the modern day Al Aqsa mosque. Ironically the distance between the two sites is 666 miles ! The mosque was never built in Muhammed's lifetime.
621 is seen as the start of the Islamic calendar.
For the first 17 months after the visit to the site of Al Aqsa, Muhammed insisted on all prayers be directed towards Al Aqsa.
This changed to all prayers being directed towards Mecca, following the failure to convert Jews to Islam.
This is the start of hatred towards Jews by Muslims.
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Having watched most of his presss conference yesterday, I am now convinced he is insane.
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
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Originally Posted by
TH63
Having watched most of his presss conference yesterday, I am now convinced he is insane.
Yeah he doesn't seem far off having some sort of breakdown.
Its like he feels persecuted by the press, if he had a modicum of self reflection he could see that he's brought it upon himself to a large degree, and reign it in a bit to get an easier ride.
Unfortunately I don't think that self reflection is part of his make up.
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninianclark
It is also something to be of note - that Mohammed whilst trying to 'get is religion' going wasnt getting much traction - so he studied Jews in order to see how they did it - the rest is history. I often wondered why Jews and Muslims have so much in common - because Mo nicked most of their practices and called it Islam.
A truely horrible religion - and probably the worst of all forms of religion.
Pretty much any of the horrible things that get justified by an extreme interpretation of Islam could just as easily be justified by an extreme interpretation of Christianity.
Indeed the past is littered with many examples of how brutal Christianity can be.
Therefore the reason we see a much higher prevailance of these issues in Islam today is nothing to do with anything innate with the religion, it is more to do with the conditions of the people who follow that religion.
If conditions in South Wales and conditions in Gaza were magically reversed overnight, there would be terrorism here and not there.
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
In 2017 it would be good to imagine that some of the historical atrocities carried out in the name of some religion would have been at least a little symptomatic of less enlightened times and during ages when barbaric acts were fairly commonplace, but evidently it is still going on, and probably even encouraged (by?).
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
Yeah he doesn't seem far off having some sort of breakdown.
Its like he feels persecuted by the press, if he had a modicum of self reflection he could see that he's brought it upon himself to a large degree, and reign it in a bit to get an easier ride.
Unfortunately I don't think that self reflection is part of his make up.
The media aren't blameless in all of this and I think it's fair to say that there are plenty in their numbers that have an agenda, but Trump, and his staff, are only making the situation worse by the attitude which comes through every time someone who they perceive as hostile asks them a question.
I think I'm right in saying that the press conference yesterday went on for seventy seven minutes? I suppose the mainstream media might b e doing their bit for the globalist, liberal elite by concentrating only on the confrontational stuff, but it stretches credibility beyond limits to imagine that those of us who didn't watch the whole of the "event" are being denied the parts where Trump spoke, lucidly, persuasively and impressively about what's been achieved in his Presidency so far. What I've seen is someone who looks too thin skinned to be doing the job he is, playing game the media wants to play because he doesn't have the poise, dignity or class to rise above it and attempt to push the arguments his way. For example, for anyone to claim that they had a great policy, but got the wrong court (twice) doesn't just sound unconvincing, it sounds ludicrous - forget the politics, it's the man whose the issue here.
Also, is anyone else already getting sick and tired of people, from all shades of political opinion, squawking "that's fake news" every time they are asked an awkward question?
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
The media aren't blameless in all of this and I think it's fair to say that there are plenty in their numbers that have an agenda, but Trump, and his staff, are only making the situation worse by the attitude which comes through every time someone who they perceive as hostile asks them a question.
I think I'm right in saying that the press conference yesterday went on for seventy seven minutes? I suppose the mainstream media might b e doing their bit for the globalist, liberal elite by concentrating only on the confrontational stuff, but it stretches credibility beyond limits to imagine that those of us who didn't watch the whole of the "event" are being denied the parts where Trump spoke, lucidly, persuasively and impressively about what's been achieved in his Presidency so far. What I've seen is someone who looks too thin skinned to be doing the job he is, playing game the media wants to play because he doesn't have the poise, dignity or class to rise above it and attempt to push the arguments his way. For example, for anyone to claim that they had a great policy, but got the wrong court (twice) doesn't just sound unconvincing, it sounds ludicrous - forget the politics, it's the man whose the issue here.
Also, is anyone else already getting sick and tired of people, from all shades of political opinion, squawking "that's fake news" every time they are asked an awkward question?
One of the 'uses' for 'Fake News' and Conspiracy theories is that once the notions become common parlance the simple mention of either can can be used to deflect questions or hide events in plain sight. It may well be that the notions have been actively cultivated on an increasing scale for that very purpose.
I'm not saying that what is going on here. Or it could be.
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mrs Steve R
I haven't got the energy tbh, if you question anything it's just assumed that you must be a Trump supporter not because you are using common sense.
You're not making any assumptions though, so that's ok.
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kris
You're not making any assumptions though, so that's ok.
I'm not making assumptions, I've watched the same arguments over and over again, I'm not a Trump supporter so why should I waste my time arguing with people about it? it's depressing, I'd rather be on here arguing with you about not arguing with them. :biggrin:
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JDerrida
Going back to the earliest times in Jerusalem, which is what the various religions rely on as their claim on the City.
Jews were there first, followed by Christians.
The first recognition of a Muslim presence in Jerusalem was following Muhammed's alleged Night Journey, in 621 from Mecca to the site of the modern day Al Aqsa mosque. Ironically the distance between the two sites is 666 miles ! The mosque was never built in Muhammed's lifetime.
621 is seen as the start of the Islamic calendar.
For the first 17 months after the visit to the site of Al Aqsa, Muhammed insisted on all prayers be directed towards Al Aqsa.
This changed to all prayers being directed towards Mecca, following the failure to convert Jews to Islam.
This is the start of hatred towards Jews by Muslims.
I may be wrong but I thought there was a period of many, many centuries between the age of Mohamed and now when Jews found acceptance, tolerance and safety from Christian pogroms and massacres in Islamic countries?
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
I may be wrong but I thought there was a period of many, many centuries between the age of Mohamed and now when Jews found acceptance, tolerance and safety from Christian pogroms and massacres in Islamic countries?
I read they had safety as a vassal on some occasions, being made to pay huge sums in contributions. Higher taxes for Jews etc.
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LordKenwyne
I read they had safety as a vassal on some occasions, being made to pay huge sums in contributions. Higher taxes for Jews etc.
A complicated picture. But there was a long period when majority Islam was more tolerant and inclusive than majority Christianity:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...er_Muslim_rule
There were always periods or places where discrimination and persecution were worse, but it is fair to describe a medieval 'golden age' for Jews under Islam. Before the culture changed and simplistic/extremist views came to dominate.
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Re: Trump on the Middle East
From a personal point of view telling Israel and Palestine to sort it out between themselves is probably the best situation for Trump, as he's fighting enough battles himself on his own on home turf. Besides the media, Democrats, and Soros & his paid aggitators, he is also facing opposition from within his own party, the deep state, the intelligence agencies, and some say there are even Trojans amongst his advisers and transition team. That's a lot of people who are against him! :biggrin: