-
Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Don’t turn your heaters on !!!!!!
As cold weather sweeps across the U.S., some electric vehicle owners are learning a bitter truth: Low temperatures can stop the cars dead in their icy tracks.
The issue crystallized this week when some Tesla owners in Chicago discovered their EVs' batteries had died in sub-zero temperatures. Drivers also said some of Tesla charging stations weren't working, or if they did work that the stations were taking longer than usual to charge up their vehicles.
"I've been here for over five hours at this point, and I still have not gotten to charge my car," Tesla driver Brandon Welbourne told CBS Chicago. "A charge that should take 45 minutes is taking two hours."
Tesla owners run into battery charging trouble in Chicago's bitter cold
Electric vehicles, or EVs, are known for losing efficiency in cold weather, an issue that Consumer Reports investigated last year due to concerns about significant variations in how different electric cars held up in cold weather. At the same time, the federal government is dangling a $7,500 federal tax credit, a financial carrot that helped boost EV sales to a record 1.2 million vehicles last year.
"EVs definitely lose some of their driving range in extreme cold," Scott Case, co-founder and CEO of Recurrent, a battery research firm, told CBS MoneyWatch.
The issue is similar to what can occur with other battery-operated devices in the cold.
"If you go skiing with your iPhone, you might notice that the battery will burn through more quickly, so halfway through the day it might run out of juice, where normally it would last all day," Case noted.
Here's what to know.
What happens to electric vehicles in cold weather?
Electric vehicles are less efficient in cold weather, with Recurrent's research finding that below-freezing temperatures reduced driving range up to 30% on 18 popular EV models.
An EV with a 200 to 215 mile range may only go 150 to 175 miles in the cold, Recurrent's Case said, while noting even that reduced mileage is often sufficient for most drivers. "The average person with an EV drives 30 miles a day," he said.
Still, a shorter range in cold weather could be an issue for some owners if their EV runs out of juice miles earlier than expected, potentially leaving to hunt for an available charger or, worse, stranded in dangerously frigid conditions.
Why are EVs affected by cold weather?
First, chemical and physical reactions inside an EV's battery require more time when the mercury drops, according to Recurrent. Because the cold slows these physical processes, that cuts down the power available to the EV.
Second, unlike with cars powered by an internal combustion engines, EVs can't tap the motor's heat to warm a vehicle's interior.
"From a range perspective, EVs tend to do worse in cold weather because of the need to heat the cabin for comfort," Alex Knizek, manager of automotive testing and insights at Consumer Reports, told CBS MoneyWatch in an email.
EVs rely on a supplemental heater, which Knizek noted are often "resistive heaters — much like a space heater you might use at home." Most newer EVs also have the option to come with a heat pump, which are more efficient, but they are also impacted when temperatures drop into the single digits or below.
Why don't electric cars charge as well in the cold?
EVs can take longer to charge when it's cold. That's partly because most EVs are designed to boost their battery temperatures when the thermometer drops, Knizek said.
"This power to do so comes from the battery itself, reducing range," Knizek added. "This also has an impact on charging speeds. If the battery is too cold, it will charge slower and may need to heat itself up before the charging speed can increase."
Will cold weather damage an EV's battery?
No, according to Recurrent's Case.
"If you are in a cold climate, you are likely to have a battery that holds up over time versus hot climates," he said. "The thing with very cold weather is it reduces range on an individual trip, but doesn't do anything to a battery in the long term."
Can EV owners prevent battery issues when it's cold?
Yes, there are several tips recommended by Case and Consumer Reports' Knizek. Both recommend warming up your EV's cabin while the vehicle is connected to a charger and before you intend to take it out for a drive.
"This means the car will use energy from the grid [charger] to get warm instead of the battery itself," Knizek said. "You can use the vehicle's smartphone app to do this or set a departure time within the infotainment screen in the car."
Next, also precondition the battery before using a DC fast charger — a step that is typically available by pointing your navigation system to a DC fast charger or a button that can trigger the process.
"This uses the battery energy to heat itself up to the optimal temp, which allows better fast charging performance," Knizek said. "It costs some range to do this, but generally the payoff is worth it."
Lastly, lower heat in the cabin and drive more slowly. "Speed and aerodynamics have a huge impact on range, regardless of temperature," he noted.
What does Tesla say about cold weather?
Tesla didn't immediately return a request for comment to CBS MoneyWatch, but its website advises owners to keep the battery charge level above 20% during bitterly cold weather.
The automaker also says it's normal to see energy consumption increase because Teslas use more energy to heat the battery and cabin.
"We have made several updates to improve your driving experience in freezing temperatures, including better overall thermal performance, quicker Supercharging and improved cabin conditioning," Tesla notes on its site.
Are there other issues with EVs?
Even in optimal weather, some electric vehicles fell as much as 50 miles short of their advertised driving ranges, according to Consumer Reports.
And another study by the advocacy and product testing organization found that EVs have nearly 80% more mechanical problems and are generally less reliable than gas-powered cars.
The Chicago-area Teslas that ran into battery problems during the cold snap this week probably won't change anyone's mind about buying an EV, Case noted.
"Everybody who wasn't going to buy one feels great with their decision because they saw the pictures out of Chicago, and everyone who was going to buy an EV has already decided," he said.
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Yup, I've never had a problem with a diesel or petrol vehicle in extreme cold.
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BLUETIT
Don’t turn your heaters on !!!!!!
As cold weather sweeps across the U.S., some electric vehicle owners are learning a bitter truth: Low temperatures can stop the cars dead in their icy tracks.
The issue crystallized this week when some Tesla owners in Chicago discovered their EVs' batteries had died in sub-zero temperatures. Drivers also said some of Tesla charging stations weren't working, or if they did work that the stations were taking longer than usual to charge up their vehicles.
"I've been here for over five hours at this point, and I still have not gotten to charge my car," Tesla driver Brandon Welbourne told CBS Chicago. "A charge that should take 45 minutes is taking two hours."
Tesla owners run into battery charging trouble in Chicago's bitter cold
Electric vehicles, or EVs, are known for losing efficiency in cold weather, an issue that Consumer Reports investigated last year due to concerns about significant variations in how different electric cars held up in cold weather. At the same time, the federal government is dangling a $7,500 federal tax credit, a financial carrot that helped boost EV sales to a record 1.2 million vehicles last year.
"EVs definitely lose some of their driving range in extreme cold," Scott Case, co-founder and CEO of Recurrent, a battery research firm, told CBS MoneyWatch.
The issue is similar to what can occur with other battery-operated devices in the cold.
"If you go skiing with your iPhone, you might notice that the battery will burn through more quickly, so halfway through the day it might run out of juice, where normally it would last all day," Case noted.
Here's what to know.
What happens to electric vehicles in cold weather?
Electric vehicles are less efficient in cold weather, with Recurrent's research finding that below-freezing temperatures reduced driving range up to 30% on 18 popular EV models.
An EV with a 200 to 215 mile range may only go 150 to 175 miles in the cold, Recurrent's Case said, while noting even that reduced mileage is often sufficient for most drivers. "The average person with an EV drives 30 miles a day," he said.
Still, a shorter range in cold weather could be an issue for some owners if their EV runs out of juice miles earlier than expected, potentially leaving to hunt for an available charger or, worse, stranded in dangerously frigid conditions.
Why are EVs affected by cold weather?
First, chemical and physical reactions inside an EV's battery require more time when the mercury drops, according to Recurrent. Because the cold slows these physical processes, that cuts down the power available to the EV.
Second, unlike with cars powered by an internal combustion engines, EVs can't tap the motor's heat to warm a vehicle's interior.
"From a range perspective, EVs tend to do worse in cold weather because of the need to heat the cabin for comfort," Alex Knizek, manager of automotive testing and insights at Consumer Reports, told CBS MoneyWatch in an email.
EVs rely on a supplemental heater, which Knizek noted are often "resistive heaters — much like a space heater you might use at home." Most newer EVs also have the option to come with a heat pump, which are more efficient, but they are also impacted when temperatures drop into the single digits or below.
Why don't electric cars charge as well in the cold?
EVs can take longer to charge when it's cold. That's partly because most EVs are designed to boost their battery temperatures when the thermometer drops, Knizek said.
"This power to do so comes from the battery itself, reducing range," Knizek added. "This also has an impact on charging speeds. If the battery is too cold, it will charge slower and may need to heat itself up before the charging speed can increase."
Will cold weather damage an EV's battery?
No, according to Recurrent's Case.
"If you are in a cold climate, you are likely to have a battery that holds up over time versus hot climates," he said. "The thing with very cold weather is it reduces range on an individual trip, but doesn't do anything to a battery in the long term."
Can EV owners prevent battery issues when it's cold?
Yes, there are several tips recommended by Case and Consumer Reports' Knizek. Both recommend warming up your EV's cabin while the vehicle is connected to a charger and before you intend to take it out for a drive.
"This means the car will use energy from the grid [charger] to get warm instead of the battery itself," Knizek said. "You can use the vehicle's smartphone app to do this or set a departure time within the infotainment screen in the car."
Next, also precondition the battery before using a DC fast charger — a step that is typically available by pointing your navigation system to a DC fast charger or a button that can trigger the process.
"This uses the battery energy to heat itself up to the optimal temp, which allows better fast charging performance," Knizek said. "It costs some range to do this, but generally the payoff is worth it."
Lastly, lower heat in the cabin and drive more slowly. "Speed and aerodynamics have a huge impact on range, regardless of temperature," he noted.
What does Tesla say about cold weather?
Tesla didn't immediately return a request for comment to CBS MoneyWatch, but its website advises owners to keep the battery charge level above 20% during bitterly cold weather.
The automaker also says it's normal to see energy consumption increase because Teslas use more energy to heat the battery and cabin.
"We have made several updates to improve your driving experience in freezing temperatures, including better overall thermal performance, quicker Supercharging and improved cabin conditioning," Tesla notes on its site.
Are there other issues with EVs?
Even in optimal weather, some electric vehicles fell as much as 50 miles short of their advertised driving ranges, according to Consumer Reports.
And another study by the advocacy and product testing organization found that EVs have nearly 80% more mechanical problems and are generally less reliable than gas-powered cars.
The Chicago-area Teslas that ran into battery problems during the cold snap this week probably won't change anyone's mind about buying an EV, Case noted.
"Everybody who wasn't going to buy one feels great with their decision because they saw the pictures out of Chicago, and everyone who was going to buy an EV has already decided," he said.
Not going to work are they, they'll have to start again and find something else.
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
Not going to work are they, they'll have to start again and find something else.
They work, just like a clockwork car will work. Just not very practical.
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
Not going to work are they, they'll have to start again and find something else.
No need. Already been done. World Endurance Championship has been running highly efficient state-of-the-art vehicles on this since 2022. Watched them at Spa that year. Incredible technology. https://www.fiawec.com/en/news/total...h-fia-wec/7286
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
And as far as the con regarding the Green Economy is concerned, Lithium mining in Argentina is where you need to look for the source of EVs other big problem. And I'm posting this as an environmentalist and supporter of the need for radical change regarding problems associated with human-driven climate change. https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...ite-gold-jujuy
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Not on board with electric cars just yet, purely because for those of us in terraced houses there just isn’t any infrastructure yet.
Anyone thinking that petrol and diesel cars don’t get affected by extreme cold are kidding themselves though
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
You could always ask a friend or neighbour for a jump start 🫣
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Citizen's Nephew
And as far as the con regarding the Green Economy is concerned, Lithium mining in Argentina is where you need to look for the source of EVs other big problem. And I'm posting this as an environmentalist and supporter of the need for radical change regarding problems associated with human-driven climate change.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...ite-gold-jujuy
there are developments in this area, sodium ion batteries instead of lithium .
solid state batteries seem very promising as well.
-
Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BLUETIT
Don’t turn your heaters on !!!!!!
As cold weather sweeps across the U.S., some electric vehicle owners are learning a bitter truth: Low temperatures can stop the cars dead in their icy tracks.
The issue crystallized this week when some Tesla owners in Chicago discovered their EVs' batteries had died in sub-zero temperatures. Drivers also said some of Tesla charging stations weren't working, or if they did work that the stations were taking longer than usual to charge up their vehicles.
"I've been here for over five hours at this point, and I still have not gotten to charge my car," Tesla driver Brandon Welbourne told CBS Chicago. "A charge that should take 45 minutes is taking two hours."
Tesla owners run into battery charging trouble in Chicago's bitter cold
Electric vehicles, or EVs, are known for losing efficiency in cold weather, an issue that Consumer Reports investigated last year due to concerns about significant variations in how different electric cars held up in cold weather. At the same time, the federal government is dangling a $7,500 federal tax credit, a financial carrot that helped boost EV sales to a record 1.2 million vehicles last year.
"EVs definitely lose some of their driving range in extreme cold," Scott Case, co-founder and CEO of Recurrent, a battery research firm, told CBS MoneyWatch.
The issue is similar to what can occur with other battery-operated devices in the cold.
"If you go skiing with your iPhone, you might notice that the battery will burn through more quickly, so halfway through the day it might run out of juice, where normally it would last all day," Case noted.
Here's what to know.
What happens to electric vehicles in cold weather?
Electric vehicles are less efficient in cold weather, with Recurrent's research finding that below-freezing temperatures reduced driving range up to 30% on 18 popular EV models.
An EV with a 200 to 215 mile range may only go 150 to 175 miles in the cold, Recurrent's Case said, while noting even that reduced mileage is often sufficient for most drivers. "The average person with an EV drives 30 miles a day," he said.
Still, a shorter range in cold weather could be an issue for some owners if their EV runs out of juice miles earlier than expected, potentially leaving to hunt for an available charger or, worse, stranded in dangerously frigid conditions.
Why are EVs affected by cold weather?
First, chemical and physical reactions inside an EV's battery require more time when the mercury drops, according to Recurrent. Because the cold slows these physical processes, that cuts down the power available to the EV.
Second, unlike with cars powered by an internal combustion engines, EVs can't tap the motor's heat to warm a vehicle's interior.
"From a range perspective, EVs tend to do worse in cold weather because of the need to heat the cabin for comfort," Alex Knizek, manager of automotive testing and insights at Consumer Reports, told CBS MoneyWatch in an email.
EVs rely on a supplemental heater, which Knizek noted are often "resistive heaters — much like a space heater you might use at home." Most newer EVs also have the option to come with a heat pump, which are more efficient, but they are also impacted when temperatures drop into the single digits or below.
Why don't electric cars charge as well in the cold?
EVs can take longer to charge when it's cold. That's partly because most EVs are designed to boost their battery temperatures when the thermometer drops, Knizek said.
"This power to do so comes from the battery itself, reducing range," Knizek added. "This also has an impact on charging speeds. If the battery is too cold, it will charge slower and may need to heat itself up before the charging speed can increase."
Will cold weather damage an EV's battery?
No, according to Recurrent's Case.
"If you are in a cold climate, you are likely to have a battery that holds up over time versus hot climates," he said. "The thing with very cold weather is it reduces range on an individual trip, but doesn't do anything to a battery in the long term."
Can EV owners prevent battery issues when it's cold?
Yes, there are several tips recommended by Case and Consumer Reports' Knizek. Both recommend warming up your EV's cabin while the vehicle is connected to a charger and before you intend to take it out for a drive.
"This means the car will use energy from the grid [charger] to get warm instead of the battery itself," Knizek said. "You can use the vehicle's smartphone app to do this or set a departure time within the infotainment screen in the car."
Next, also precondition the battery before using a DC fast charger — a step that is typically available by pointing your navigation system to a DC fast charger or a button that can trigger the process.
"This uses the battery energy to heat itself up to the optimal temp, which allows better fast charging performance," Knizek said. "It costs some range to do this, but generally the payoff is worth it."
Lastly, lower heat in the cabin and drive more slowly. "Speed and aerodynamics have a huge impact on range, regardless of temperature," he noted.
What does Tesla say about cold weather?
Tesla didn't immediately return a request for comment to CBS MoneyWatch, but its website advises owners to keep the battery charge level above 20% during bitterly cold weather.
The automaker also says it's normal to see energy consumption increase because Teslas use more energy to heat the battery and cabin.
"We have made several updates to improve your driving experience in freezing temperatures, including better overall thermal performance, quicker Supercharging and improved cabin conditioning," Tesla notes on its site.
Are there other issues with EVs?
Even in optimal weather, some electric vehicles fell as much as 50 miles short of their advertised driving ranges, according to Consumer Reports.
And another study by the advocacy and product testing organization found that EVs have nearly 80% more mechanical problems and are generally less reliable than gas-powered cars.
The Chicago-area Teslas that ran into battery problems during the cold snap this week probably won't change anyone's mind about buying an EV, Case noted.
"Everybody who wasn't going to buy one feels great with their decision because they saw the pictures out of Chicago, and everyone who was going to buy an EV has already decided," he said.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Turns out EV don’t like extreme cold..<br><br>“Public charging stations have turned car graveyards”<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ClimateScam?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cli mateScam</a> <a href="https://t.co/6zdXng9Nuw">pic.twitter.com/6zdXng9Nuw</a></p>— YNWA 2.0 (@JP__75) <a href="https://twitter.com/JP__75/status/1747358094336917670?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 16, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
there are developments in this area, sodium ion batteries instead of lithium .
solid state batteries seem very promising as well.
I agree, but the problem is cost. I'm no longer a driver but following motorsport, particularly endurance racing, I follow this quite closely. Mercedes has recently announced this https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/t...t-be-necessary and I've been under the impression now that sodium batteries are preferable because of fire safety issues and not efficiency. It's depressing because we're seeing the negative environmental effects of capitalism on alt-energy development which is why I've now become very skeptical of the Green Economy. That doesn't mean I'm a climate change denier. Far from it.
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MOZZER2
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Turns out EV don’t like extreme cold..<br><br>“Public charging stations have turned car graveyards”<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ClimateScam?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Climate Scam</a> <a href="https://t.co/6zdXng9Nuw">pic.twitter.com/6zdXng9Nuw</a></p>— YNWA 2.0 (@JP__75) <a href="https://twitter.com/JP__75/status/1747358094336917670?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 16, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Climate Scam hashtags! WTF? In other shock news, extreme heat melts rubber. FFS.
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Citizen's Nephew
Climate Scam hashtags! WTF? In other shock news, extreme heat melts rubber. FFS.
:hehe: You're so angry at the slightest thing :hehe:
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
A Quiet Monkfish
They work, just like a clockwork car will work. Just not very practical.
Betamax versions, this format will never last, back to the drawing board.
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
:hehe: You're so angry at the slightest thing :hehe:
You think that's me angry!?:hehe:
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
How does Norway manage? About a quarter of vehicles on the road there are supposed to be ev's.
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
My electric car works fine wonder , if its extremely cold in Chicago which is usual perhaps tesla drivers should read the manual about cold weather , look at the weather forecast and prepare ones self a bit better ,buy a theral car cover , cover the charging port etc etc ,Biden need to hand out more free federal tax giveaways to keep these these rich Tesla feckers on the road he needs their votes . would not happen on Donnys watch
-
Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BLUETIT
Don’t turn your heaters on !!!!!!
As cold weather sweeps across the U.S., some electric vehicle owners are learning a bitter truth: Low temperatures can stop the cars dead in their icy tracks.
The issue crystallized this week when some Tesla owners in Chicago discovered their EVs' batteries had died in sub-zero temperatures. Drivers also said some of Tesla charging stations weren't working, or if they did work that the stations were taking longer than usual to charge up their vehicles.
"I've been here for over five hours at this point, and I still have not gotten to charge my car," Tesla driver Brandon Welbourne told CBS Chicago. "A charge that should take 45 minutes is taking two hours."
Tesla owners run into battery charging trouble in Chicago's bitter cold
Electric vehicles, or EVs, are known for losing efficiency in cold weather, an issue that Consumer Reports investigated last year due to concerns about significant variations in how different electric cars held up in cold weather. At the same time, the federal government is dangling a $7,500 federal tax credit, a financial carrot that helped boost EV sales to a record 1.2 million vehicles last year.
"EVs definitely lose some of their driving range in extreme cold," Scott Case, co-founder and CEO of Recurrent, a battery research firm, told CBS MoneyWatch.
The issue is similar to what can occur with other battery-operated devices in the cold.
"If you go skiing with your iPhone, you might notice that the battery will burn through more quickly, so halfway through the day it might run out of juice, where normally it would last all day," Case noted.
Here's what to know.
What happens to electric vehicles in cold weather?
Electric vehicles are less efficient in cold weather, with Recurrent's research finding that below-freezing temperatures reduced driving range up to 30% on 18 popular EV models.
An EV with a 200 to 215 mile range may only go 150 to 175 miles in the cold, Recurrent's Case said, while noting even that reduced mileage is often sufficient for most drivers. "The average person with an EV drives 30 miles a day," he said.
Still, a shorter range in cold weather could be an issue for some owners if their EV runs out of juice miles earlier than expected, potentially leaving to hunt for an available charger or, worse, stranded in dangerously frigid conditions.
Why are EVs affected by cold weather?
First, chemical and physical reactions inside an EV's battery require more time when the mercury drops, according to Recurrent. Because the cold slows these physical processes, that cuts down the power available to the EV.
Second, unlike with cars powered by an internal combustion engines, EVs can't tap the motor's heat to warm a vehicle's interior.
"From a range perspective, EVs tend to do worse in cold weather because of the need to heat the cabin for comfort," Alex Knizek, manager of automotive testing and insights at Consumer Reports, told CBS MoneyWatch in an email.
EVs rely on a supplemental heater, which Knizek noted are often "resistive heaters — much like a space heater you might use at home." Most newer EVs also have the option to come with a heat pump, which are more efficient, but they are also impacted when temperatures drop into the single digits or below.
Why don't electric cars charge as well in the cold?
EVs can take longer to charge when it's cold. That's partly because most EVs are designed to boost their battery temperatures when the thermometer drops, Knizek said.
"This power to do so comes from the battery itself, reducing range," Knizek added. "This also has an impact on charging speeds. If the battery is too cold, it will charge slower and may need to heat itself up before the charging speed can increase."
Will cold weather damage an EV's battery?
No, according to Recurrent's Case.
"If you are in a cold climate, you are likely to have a battery that holds up over time versus hot climates," he said. "The thing with very cold weather is it reduces range on an individual trip, but doesn't do anything to a battery in the long term."
Can EV owners prevent battery issues when it's cold?
Yes, there are several tips recommended by Case and Consumer Reports' Knizek. Both recommend warming up your EV's cabin while the vehicle is connected to a charger and before you intend to take it out for a drive.
"This means the car will use energy from the grid [charger] to get warm instead of the battery itself," Knizek said. "You can use the vehicle's smartphone app to do this or set a departure time within the infotainment screen in the car."
Next, also precondition the battery before using a DC fast charger — a step that is typically available by pointing your navigation system to a DC fast charger or a button that can trigger the process.
"This uses the battery energy to heat itself up to the optimal temp, which allows better fast charging performance," Knizek said. "It costs some range to do this, but generally the payoff is worth it."
Lastly, lower heat in the cabin and drive more slowly. "Speed and aerodynamics have a huge impact on range, regardless of temperature," he noted.
What does Tesla say about cold weather?
Tesla didn't immediately return a request for comment to CBS MoneyWatch, but its website advises owners to keep the battery charge level above 20% during bitterly cold weather.
The automaker also says it's normal to see energy consumption increase because Teslas use more energy to heat the battery and cabin.
"We have made several updates to improve your driving experience in freezing temperatures, including better overall thermal performance, quicker Supercharging and improved cabin conditioning," Tesla notes on its site.
Are there other issues with EVs?
Even in optimal weather, some electric vehicles fell as much as 50 miles short of their advertised driving ranges, according to Consumer Reports.
And another study by the advocacy and product testing organization found that EVs have nearly 80% more mechanical problems and are generally less reliable than gas-powered cars.
The Chicago-area Teslas that ran into battery problems during the cold snap this week probably won't change anyone's mind about buying an EV, Case noted.
"Everybody who wasn't going to buy one feels great with their decision because they saw the pictures out of Chicago, and everyone who was going to buy an EV has already decided," he said.
Early adopters are ironing out the problems :hehe: for balance my 06.54 train was cancelled this morning, the extra 10 mins waiting in -5°C was quite refreshing :hehe:
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
My electric car works fine wonder , if its extremely cold in Chicago which is usual perhaps tesla drivers should read the manual about cold weather , look at the weather forecast and prepare ones self a bit better ,buy a theral car cover , cover the charging port etc etc ,Biden need to hand out more free federal tax giveaways to keep these these rich Tesla feckers on the road he needs their votes . would not happen on Donnys watch
You had me right up to covering the charging port etc etc...then blew it. :hehe:
-
Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BLUETIT
Don’t turn your heaters on !!!!!!
As cold weather sweeps across the U.S., some electric vehicle owners are learning a bitter truth: Low temperatures can stop the cars dead in their icy tracks.
The issue crystallized this week when some Tesla owners in Chicago discovered their EVs' batteries had died in sub-zero temperatures. Drivers also said some of Tesla charging stations weren't working, or if they did work that the stations were taking longer than usual to charge up their vehicles.
"I've been here for over five hours at this point, and I still have not gotten to charge my car," Tesla driver Brandon Welbourne told CBS Chicago. "A charge that should take 45 minutes is taking two hours."
Tesla owners run into battery charging trouble in Chicago's bitter cold
Electric vehicles, or EVs, are known for losing efficiency in cold weather, an issue that Consumer Reports investigated last year due to concerns about significant variations in how different electric cars held up in cold weather. At the same time, the federal government is dangling a $7,500 federal tax credit, a financial carrot that helped boost EV sales to a record 1.2 million vehicles last year.
"EVs definitely lose some of their driving range in extreme cold," Scott Case, co-founder and CEO of Recurrent, a battery research firm, told CBS MoneyWatch.
The issue is similar to what can occur with other battery-operated devices in the cold.
"If you go skiing with your iPhone, you might notice that the battery will burn through more quickly, so halfway through the day it might run out of juice, where normally it would last all day," Case noted.
Here's what to know.
What happens to electric vehicles in cold weather?
Electric vehicles are less efficient in cold weather, with Recurrent's research finding that below-freezing temperatures reduced driving range up to 30% on 18 popular EV models.
An EV with a 200 to 215 mile range may only go 150 to 175 miles in the cold, Recurrent's Case said, while noting even that reduced mileage is often sufficient for most drivers. "The average person with an EV drives 30 miles a day," he said.
Still, a shorter range in cold weather could be an issue for some owners if their EV runs out of juice miles earlier than expected, potentially leaving to hunt for an available charger or, worse, stranded in dangerously frigid conditions.
Why are EVs affected by cold weather?
First, chemical and physical reactions inside an EV's battery require more time when the mercury drops, according to Recurrent. Because the cold slows these physical processes, that cuts down the power available to the EV.
Second, unlike with cars powered by an internal combustion engines, EVs can't tap the motor's heat to warm a vehicle's interior.
"From a range perspective, EVs tend to do worse in cold weather because of the need to heat the cabin for comfort," Alex Knizek, manager of automotive testing and insights at Consumer Reports, told CBS MoneyWatch in an email.
EVs rely on a supplemental heater, which Knizek noted are often "resistive heaters — much like a space heater you might use at home." Most newer EVs also have the option to come with a heat pump, which are more efficient, but they are also impacted when temperatures drop into the single digits or below.
Why don't electric cars charge as well in the cold?
EVs can take longer to charge when it's cold. That's partly because most EVs are designed to boost their battery temperatures when the thermometer drops, Knizek said.
"This power to do so comes from the battery itself, reducing range," Knizek added. "This also has an impact on charging speeds. If the battery is too cold, it will charge slower and may need to heat itself up before the charging speed can increase."
Will cold weather damage an EV's battery?
No, according to Recurrent's Case.
"If you are in a cold climate, you are likely to have a battery that holds up over time versus hot climates," he said. "The thing with very cold weather is it reduces range on an individual trip, but doesn't do anything to a battery in the long term."
Can EV owners prevent battery issues when it's cold?
Yes, there are several tips recommended by Case and Consumer Reports' Knizek. Both recommend warming up your EV's cabin while the vehicle is connected to a charger and before you intend to take it out for a drive.
"This means the car will use energy from the grid [charger] to get warm instead of the battery itself," Knizek said. "You can use the vehicle's smartphone app to do this or set a departure time within the infotainment screen in the car."
Next, also precondition the battery before using a DC fast charger — a step that is typically available by pointing your navigation system to a DC fast charger or a button that can trigger the process.
"This uses the battery energy to heat itself up to the optimal temp, which allows better fast charging performance," Knizek said. "It costs some range to do this, but generally the payoff is worth it."
Lastly, lower heat in the cabin and drive more slowly. "Speed and aerodynamics have a huge impact on range, regardless of temperature," he noted.
What does Tesla say about cold weather?
Tesla didn't immediately return a request for comment to CBS MoneyWatch, but its website advises owners to keep the battery charge level above 20% during bitterly cold weather.
The automaker also says it's normal to see energy consumption increase because Teslas use more energy to heat the battery and cabin.
"We have made several updates to improve your driving experience in freezing temperatures, including better overall thermal performance, quicker Supercharging and improved cabin conditioning," Tesla notes on its site.
Are there other issues with EVs?
Even in optimal weather, some electric vehicles fell as much as 50 miles short of their advertised driving ranges, according to Consumer Reports.
And another study by the advocacy and product testing organization found that EVs have nearly 80% more mechanical problems and are generally less reliable than gas-powered cars.
The Chicago-area Teslas that ran into battery problems during the cold snap this week probably won't change anyone's mind about buying an EV, Case noted.
"Everybody who wasn't going to buy one feels great with their decision because they saw the pictures out of Chicago, and everyone who was going to buy an EV has already decided," he said.
quoting this looks fun :hehe:
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Citizen's Nephew
And as far as the con regarding the Green Economy is concerned, Lithium mining in Argentina is where you need to look for the source of EVs other big problem. And I'm posting this as an environmentalist and supporter of the need for radical change regarding problems associated with human-driven climate change.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...ite-gold-jujuy
Do keep up. Lithium is being replaced by AI researched alternative: https://www.analyticsvidhya.com/blog...-in-batteries/
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cyclops
The Microsoft-PNNL collaboration and discovery of N2116 as a lithium alternative is a remarkable testament to technology's role in driving sustainable innovation. It's inspiring to see such advancements tbh. It'll require vigorous testing and it's way too early to know whether this is a 'replacement' but it's hopeful in both environmental sustainability and technological progress. :thumbup:
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
Not going to work are they, they'll have to start again and find something else.
It's too late now, we are committed to EVs. In the short term people may have to own a small petrol car for extreme cold AND an EV for main use at all other times. In the medium term science is going to produce cold hardy EVs. On we go transitioning to EV
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NinianOpinion1927
It's too late now, we are committed to EVs. In the short term people may have to own a small petrol car for extreme cold AND an EV for main use at all other times. In the medium term science is going to produce cold hardy EVs. On we go transitioning to EV
On you go. 👍 😁
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NinianOpinion1927
It's too late now, we are committed to EVs. In the short term people may have to own a small petrol car for extreme cold AND an EV for main use at all other times. In the medium term science is going to produce cold hardy EVs. On we go transitioning to EV
Yes, like it or not EVs are here to stay and the internal combustion engine is on the way out for personal transport, some people seem to be in denial about this though
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
People slagging off EV’s, are usually the ones who can’t afford them. :biggrin:
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
G rangetown Blue
People slagging off EV’s, are usually the ones who can’t afford them. :biggrin:
I could afford one but I like ICE , what’s more they are overpriced and the residual value is awful
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TWGL1
I could afford one but I like ICE , what’s more they are overpriced and the residual value is awful
While it's true that initial costs and residual values of electric vehicles (EVs) can be concerning, the broader perspective of sustainability advocates for designing cars with longevity in mind, rather than adhering to the cycle of frequent upgrades or built-in obsolescence.
This approach not only benefits the environment by reducing waste and resource consumption but also offers long-term financial savings to consumers, as vehicles that last longer reduce the need for frequent replacements. Of course that doesn't align with capitalism. Or at least the current obsession with growth.
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
I saw a news article in the week that tickled me of a fleet of Electric Double Decker buses being charged with a Diesel Generator 😳
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
Yes, like it or not EVs are here to stay and the internal combustion engine is on the way out for personal transport, some people seem to be in denial about this though
Correct, there is no going back. I don’t even know why people waste their time moaning about it, it’s happening and will continue to happen until they are phased out.
I’m working on EV Freight policy in my current role, HGVs are some way off becoming the norm, but there’s been advancements in this as well.
EVs are here to stay, it’s inevitable.
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
I just think it’s important to be aware of the environmental impact of all forms of transportation, not rely on one alternative to the ICE and smugly think we’ve solved all the problems.
Here’s an interesting (but long) paper re. EVs https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...111/ecaf.12582
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sunnysideup
I saw a news article in the week that tickled me of a fleet of Electric Double Decker buses being charged with a Diesel Generator 😳
The paper I’ve just posted talks about this. Unless EVs are solar powered then there will be the need for an energy charging source from somewhere. It’s important to consider that. There’s no denying they are here stay though but their promotion is driven mainly by capitalism and a kind of pseudo green economy.
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Citizen's Nephew
The paper I’ve just posted talks about this. Unless EVs are solar powered then there will be the need for an energy charging source from somewhere. It’s important to consider that. There’s no denying they are here stay though but their promotion is driven mainly by capitalism and a kind of pseudo green economy.
the current mix of electricity generation is already a lot cleaner and more efficient than running an internal combustion engine, and it is only getting cleaner
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
the current mix of electricity generation is already a lot cleaner and more efficient than running an internal combustion engine, and it is only getting cleaner
I agree with you. That doesn't actually negate the argument I'm making though does it? I'm deeply suspicious of any environmental solution that's got the current capitalist model behind it. Also, the 'all eggs in one basket' human (mainly political) approach to solving problems has never worked out well for the planet (and therefore us) that well so far e.g the Industrial Revolution. Substitute that with the EV Revolution and in around 100 years we've created more problems than we've solved.
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
president of the AA urge EV owners to pre heat batteries in cold weather
https://www.energylivenews.com/2024/...-cold-weather/
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
the current mix of electricity generation is already a lot cleaner and more efficient than running an internal combustion engine, and it is only getting cleaner
This popped up on the BBC Sport site whilst I was listening to the match and following the scores. Much more interesting than our football. It's about solid-state batteries being developed by Toyota. Very knowledgable panel and sounds really encouraging, as you pointed out earlier in the thread. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3...t_bbc_team=BBC
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Had an letter today from Honda Cardiff offering £10,000 towards deposit on a new Honda EV. Sounded fantastic until I discovered that the car costs over £47,000! 😬.
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
It's been minus 10 here i've had no problems with my Bike
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Not really "news". The ICE and battery solutions don't like cold. Ironically, the ICE has to have all the cooling complications added while in reality, the higher the working temperature the better. What happened to the touted ceramic engines? People seem to like to pick faults with EVs. Obviously there are some or they would have already completely replaced the ICE. It doesn't mean that it's not a viable and much preferable solution in many cases.
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Re: Oh dear, Oh dear, electric cars in winter !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigjoe
Not really "news". The ICE and battery solutions don't like cold. Ironically, the ICE has to have all the cooling complications added while in reality, the higher the working temperature the better. What happened to the touted ceramic engines? People seem to like to pick faults with EVs. Obviously there are some or they would have already completely replaced the ICE. It doesn't mean that it's not a viable and much preferable solution in many cases.
IMO EV's should be welcomed as an option of choice, my choice is that I'll never have one, with only about 10 years max of driving to go it's an easy statement to make, if leccy was free and it should be, the technology was/is available and the cost of the car was comparable to a combustion engine then its a different decision.
