One positive from yesterday

The manager's post-match interview with Sky Sports was refreshingly honest. Neil Harris readily admitted that Preston were the better side. He said his team was below-par, particularly when in possession of the ball, and admitted that his tactical switch that saw him bring on Madine and Ward hadn't worked out. He also spoke of the difficulties in getting a group of players like this one to play in a different way and how that's going to be a gradual process.

Unlike the last fella's tedious post-match interviews, there was no grizzling about the referee and no attempt to deflect the responsibility for a poor performance away from himself or his players. I thought he spoke really well.

Harris is on a hiding to nothing with this squad. Admittedly I haven't watched every game this season, but I've seen most of them either on TV or at the stadium and the truth is that I've yet to see City play another Championship team who have had less natural ability than them. Every other side I've watched has had their weaknesses, some of them glaring, but all of them have looked faster, more comfortable on the ball and better in possession. They've also generally been younger than City and have had at least one or two players who look genuinely promising.

Having said that, I should point out that I didn't see the games against Luton, Middlesbrough or Stoke, and I understand those three teams were desperately poor.

City's current squad is packed full of players who are average at best by Championship standards. Very few, if any, would get into one of the division's top sides. To compound matters, as a unit they are so conditioned to playing Warnock's style of huff and puff route one rubbish that getting them to play any other way is going to be very difficult.

I've watched City win 3-0 and 4-2 this season against sides who looked considerably better than them. As things stand, I reckon they're genuinely fortunate to have 33 points on the board and be sitting in the top half of the table. They could very easily be five, six or seven points worse off than they are now. Warnock made a horrendous mess of the last few transfer windows and I reckon it's likely to take anyone, let alone a young and relatively inexperienced manager like Neil Harris, at least a full season to redress the balance.

The honesty did make a refreshing change.

We blamed everybody from the ref to the tea lady in previous seasons.

I've never understood the press conference where we have been diabolical and the manager blames something else. It is the ultimate mugging off of the fans who paid their money to watch the same game IMO.

We were poor, and they had worked us out , and neutralised us very well , I felt they were happy with a draw as well .

Everyone’s forgetting that Preston were 3rd in the table at the start of the day- and third on merit
We didn’t deserve to win and we’re lucky to get a point
Etheridge made a few important saves and on another day Preston’s Maguire and Billy Bodin would have put away their chances.
We should have been at least two down at half time!!
I for one am a ‘Glass Half Full’ man and am extremely happy with a point!!

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Originally Posted by Padraig1968

Everyone’s forgetting that Preston were 3rd in the table at the start of the day - and third on merit

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By the same token, they had lost their previous three away games at QPR (0-2), Hull (0-4) and Derby (0-1). World-beaters they are not.

One positive from yesterday? It only started to rain (lightly) towards the end...

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Originally Posted by Padraig1968

Everyone’s forgetting that Preston were 3rd in the table at the start of the day- and third on merit
We didn’t deserve to win and we’re lucky to get a point
Etheridge made a few important saves and on another day Preston’s Maguire and Billy Bodin would have put away their chances.
We should have been at least two down at half time!!
I for one am a ‘Glass Half Full’ man and am extremely happy with a point!!

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That's fair enough, although sometimes it isn't about the result. A small minority of people were saying that Warnock's football could never be sustainable (even when we went up)and teams that play that way consistently will eventually falter or end up back where they were. The usual cliche was banded about -It's a results business-without anything substantial to back that up. Initially it has to be about performance, not just things going our way like Preston missing some half chances and Leeds falling apart. There are only so many times those things can be reversed. We have to play a whole lot better than that, we have to learn how to keep the ball at the correct times, there is so much wrong with how we play and we are now witnessing the clubs short term thought process. No team plays like Warnock did, it's detrimental in every respect. I can't believe that some of our players are that bad, but over three years of shocking tactics and a system designed to spoil the opposition before we start to play has taken it's toll on the players. They look institutionalised.

Preston are/ were 3rd in the table because they have the best home record in the division where they have collected 29 points from 12 games. We currently have joint 2nd best home record with Leeds although you wouldn’t have guessed that yesterday !

We are halfway through the season and from what I have seen so far this season , it’s appears to be a very average Championship with WBA and Leeds the 2 sides a step up from the rest. I would expect Fulham to take one of the play off places , the other 3 places appear to be up for grabs to the teams that can be the most consistent.

On the other hand , we are difficult to beat with a team packed full of experienced Championship players, we’ve only lost one game under Harris and are only 4 points off the play offs. However what we painfully lack is flair or guile to make the openings to score a goal. We only have Tomlin and Hoilett who can provide that. When we do look like scoring is when we take the sledge hammer approach and throw Flint up front and get more bodies in the box. We didn’t look like having a scoring attempt until the 92nd minute yesterday.

We need a little more flair in the side ( what has happened to Murphy) and we can accommodate that luxury with the number of work horses we have already

You have to question the board then plus Tans ultimate goal??
How many football clubs does he own or part own? 3-4?
Why???
For us the humble fan- we expected him to fund us back to the premiership- that’s another bone of contention though because every club is looking for the best players at the right prices??
What is the best player and what is value for money?
You don’t really know until you buy him??
I remember when Sven Goran Errikkson addressed the press on his decision to take a relatively unheard of Theo Walcott to the World Cup saying he’d seen good things on a DVD lol - players are people’s opinions.
Harris was obviously sold a line as to available funds in January and I hope the new Chief Scout’s Opinion’s on certain players is better than Warnocks !!!
Only time will tell 🤔

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Originally Posted by Padraig1968

You have to question the board then plus Tans ultimate goal??
How many football clubs does he own or part own? 3-4?
Why???
For us the humble fan- we expected him to fund us back to the premiership- that’s another bone of contention though because every club is looking for the best players at the right prices??
What is the best player and what is value for money?
You don’t really know until you buy him??
I remember when Sven Goran Errikkson addressed the press on his decision to take a relatively unheard of Theo Walcott to the World Cup saying he’d seen good things on a DVD lol - players are people’s opinions.
Harris was obviously sold a line as to available funds in January and I hope the new Chief Scout’s Opinion’s on certain players is better than Warnocks !!!
Only time will tell 🤔

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The board gave Warnock money. He blew in excess of 10m on Flint and Glatzel.

We need a big clearout in the next 2 windows.

The frustrating thing is this is a poor quality Championship. Warnock had enough money to have a squad challenging for automatic promotion. What we are is a average squad.

I would have expected Tan to have invested last season to keep the club in the Premier League not allegedly sign a team to be a so called top championship team only to then weaken that team by selling players when we get relegated!

I am not sure what his business strategy is as if he wants to recoup his investment then keeping us in the Premier League should have been his goal to make the most of the financial rewards from TV money and surely be more attractive to potential buyers ?

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

That's fair enough, although sometimes it isn't about the result. A small minority of people were saying that Warnock's football could never be sustainable (even when we went up)and teams that play that way consistently will eventually falter or end up back where they were. The usual cliche was banded about -It's a results business-without anything substantial to back that up. Initially it has to be about performance, not just things going our way like Preston missing some half chances and Leeds falling apart. There are only so many times those things can be reversed. We have to play a whole lot better than that, we have to learn how to keep the ball at the correct times, there is so much wrong with how we play and we are now witnessing the clubs short term thought process. No team plays like Warnock did, it's detrimental in every respect. I can't believe that some of our players are that bad, but over three years of shocking tactics and a system designed to spoil the opposition before we start to play has taken it's toll on the players. They look institutionalised.

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Very good points being made.

I believe that Murphy is one of many good footballers at he club who has suffered.

I totally respect Bobby Reid's decision to jump ship.

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Originally Posted by Forest Green Bluebird

Very good points being made.

I believe that Murphy is one of many good footballers at he club who has suffered.

I totally respect Bobby Reid's decision to jump ship.

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I had a dig at Murphy yesterday, maybe a bit uncalled for. I respect reid's decision as well. murphy looks like he has nothing left, is devoid of ideas and self belief, he wasn't like that initially, he looked positive and confident, i used to stick up for him as he's never get any support from the midfield. What has happened to him? It could be a combination of having to play that very isolated role combined with a manager who didn't like playing him away from home. He doesn't even have the ability to do the basics now.

The other night I watched a re-run of the Cardiff v Southampton match last season on one of the Sky Sports channels. The Cardiff players who played in that match were so far superior to those on show yesterday (yes mainly the same players) that I can only conclude that something has gone seriously wrong behind the scenes. Admitedly,while Camarassa ran the show against Southampton, there were others who played in both games that were decent with everyone looking lively, challenging the opposition with enthusiasm and not leaving wide open spaces for the opposition to exploit. Murphy was actually trying his best, Patterson looked good and even the defence looked solid. There was relatively no hoofball with the ball being played mostly on the deck.

My conclusion is that the team is not nearly as bad as the last few home games have shown and it is something else that has gone seriously wrong behind the scenes with either the training or management. It is up to the manager to remedy the situation but if he can't or doesn't then it is inevitable the fans will complain.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

By the same token, they had lost their previous three away games at QPR (0-2), Hull (0-4) and Derby (0-1). World-beaters they are not.

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They have had a horrendous amount of injuries lately. Seemed like a few of them were back on Saturday.

However, I agree, we are average at best, we’re 2nd best yesterday and the ref was shit, but that wasn’t our problem. Being 2nd to nearly all the knockdowns, several players allowing themselves to be bullied and some awful touches and passing mainly from attacking players, but also from defenders under little pressure and midfielders.

Problem is, Ralls and maybe Whyte/ Hoillet apart, we don’t really have much better to come in now.

Neil Warnock saved his biggest mistruth till last, that he believes he left us with a top 2 or 3 squad.

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Originally Posted by Lawnmower

They have had a horrendous amount of injuries lately. Seemed like a few of them were back on Saturday.

However, I agree, we are average at best, we’re 2nd best yesterday and the ref was shit, but that wasn’t our problem. Being 2nd to nearly all the knockdowns, several players allowing themselves to be bullied and some awful touches and passing mainly from attacking players, but also from defenders under little pressure and midfielders.

Problem is, Ralls and maybe Whyte/ Hoillet apart, we don’t really have much better to come in now.

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Well apparently all of our players have played in expansive teams before so all its going to take is for the right manager to get them playing the right way and we wont drop another point between now and the end of the season.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Well apparently all of our players have played in expansive teams before so all its going to take is for the right manager to get them playing the right way and we wont drop another point between now and the end of the season.

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Whyte does it for Northern Ireland quite regularly.

Pack was in a Bristol City team that played a better brand than City.

Murphy was a lot better in Norwich in a more entertaining team than City.

We have players that can play a better style than one that churns out three shots in total.
Sorry that doesn't fit with your idea of where City are.

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

Whyte does it for Northern Ireland quite regularly.

Pack was in a Bristol City team that played a better brand than City.

Murphy was a lot better in Norwich in a more entertaining team than City.

We have players that can play a better style than one that churns out three shots in total.
Sorry that doesn't fit with your idea of where City are.

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Yep, 3 of the best players in the championship right there. How we managed to sign Marlon Pack ill never know.

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Originally Posted by Padraig1968

Everyone’s forgetting that Preston were 3rd in the table at the start of the day- and third on merit
We didn’t deserve to win and we’re lucky to get a point
Etheridge made a few important saves and on another day Preston’s Maguire and Billy Bodin would have put away their chances.
We should have been at least two down at half time!!
I for one am a ‘Glass Half Full’ man and am extremely happy with a point!!

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I'm happy with the result. I would have taken a point beforehand. It's the performance that bothers me.

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Originally Posted by Vindec

The other night I watched a re-run of the Cardiff v Southampton match last season on one of the Sky Sports channels. The Cardiff players who played in that match were so far superior to those on show yesterday (yes mainly the same players) that I can only conclude that something has gone seriously wrong behind the scenes.

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The team that beat Southampton on that occasion had Bennett, Morrison, Bamba and Manga in defence and a midfield consisting of Arter, Camarasa and Gunnarsson. Very different from yesterday's line-up.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Yep, 3 of the best players in the championship right there. How we managed to sign Marlon Pack ill never know.

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Once again nobody said they are the best players in the Championship did they?

What I am saying is they are much more capable of football that is one of the worst brands of football in terms of possession based, entertaining styles. You do know the difference yeah?

Not world beaters, no. Capable of better than what is being served up under Harris and was under Warnock? Without doubt for me.

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

I'm happy with the result. I would have taken a point beforehand. It's the performance that bothers me.

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I'd take the result all day long.

It is the realisation that had Preston been on song and taken their chances then they would have been out of sight by half time.

We have been fortunate to get results/points since Harris has arrived on a few occasions.

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

Once again nobody said they are the best players in the Championship did they?

What I am saying is they are much more capable of football that is one of the worst brands of football in terms of possession based, entertaining styles. You do know the difference yeah?

Not world beaters, no. Capable of better than what is being served up under Harris and was under Warnock? Without doubt for me.

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At times in the last few weeks we have played some better stuff.
Flashes here and there, but signs of hope.
I’d expect Preston have nullified far better sides than us this season.

It’s not going to change overnight

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Originally Posted by Lawnmower

At times in the last few weeks we have played some better stuff.
Flashes here and there, but signs of hope.
I’d expect Preston have nullified far better sides than us this season.

It’s not going to change overnight

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I am being hasty in hindsight.

I think it is a reaction to what we served up yesterday and the frustration coming through from that. He also wasn't my choice of manager (and not many others) but he is here now and a more balanced view is probably more sensible but once it is posted you can't really take it back.

I'm willing to give him time. I know what I think with regards to how it will probably go but he deserves a chance.
Hanging him out to dry this early achieves little.

Points total wise it isn't far off. It is the manner of the performance that is the worry and the body language at a time where the new manager factor should still be at it's strongest. As has been said he is working with Warnock's players and I think I'll reserve judgment until after January and he's put his own stamp on it.

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Originally Posted by Lawnmower

At times in the last few weeks we have played some better stuff.
Flashes here and there, but signs of hope.
I’d expect Preston have nullified far better sides than us this season.

It’s not going to change overnight

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It's going to take alot of time and change in personnel, It's not just Warnocks tenure, it goes deeper, we had slade for two years as well. My standpoint is to see a more creative and dynamic style of football, i don't want 30 passes at the back and i don't mind direct if needed, a balance would be nice. I can't tolerate players struggling to do the basics, that pisses me off. As an aside, NML should have his own competition in The Echo, you know, a bit like spot the ball but in this case 'NML-Where Does The Ball End Up' Same theory, you just put a load of crosses in the places least likely for the ball to end up, like one of our own players or even himself...

Neil Warnock ran the football club in the interests of Neil Warnock running rings around the so-called transfer committee by exploiting their ignorance.

This went beyond the ridiculous transfer fees, heavy wages and overly long contracts for average or mediocre players. There was the apparent conflict of interest involving Warnock’s son James and his colleagues at USM and the strange tale of Willie McKay’s sons being handed out contracts on the basis of not very much at all as it turned out.

The current squad is the result of complete dysfunction in the transfer market. This is Warnock’s legacy and the club may take years to recover.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

It's going to take alot of time and change in personnel, It's not just Warnocks tenure, it goes deeper, we had slade for two years as well. My standpoint is to see a more creative and dynamic style of football, i don't want 30 passes at the back and i don't mind direct if needed, a balance would be nice. I can't tolerate players struggling to do the basics, that pisses me off. As an aside, NML should have his own competition in The Echo, you know, a bit like spot the ball but in this case 'NML-Where Does The Ball End Up' Same theory, you just put a load of crosses in the places least likely for the ball to end up, like one of our own players or even himself...

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NML is superb running with the ball, but struggles to pass it 10 yards.

Not really sure what to do with a player like that

Maybe NH can enrol the players into a Man City training school during the close season. Pay Pep £10m to teach our players how to pass a ball 5 yards !

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Originally Posted by Lawnmower

NML is superb running with the ball, but struggles to pass it 10 yards.

Not really sure what to do with a player like that

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Not sure there's anything anyone can do, how can you coach a player who has no idea what he's going to do with the ball. I actually witnessed him leave the ball behind once, he kept on running but forgot the ball. It was one of the funniest things i've ever seen.

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Originally Posted by Moodybluebird

Maybe NH can enrol the players into a Man City training school during the close season. Pay Pep £10m to teach our players how to pass a ball 5 yards !

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NML is on a different level.When it goes right then it's world class, when it goes wrong it's like forest Gump on acid. He went through a stage where he'd run the ball out of play, seemingly not slowing up or trying to prevent it from happening.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

NML is on a different level.When it goes right then it's world class, when it goes wrong it's like forest Gump on acid. He went through a stage where he'd run the ball out of play, seemingly not slowing up or trying to prevent it from happening.

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World class is stretching it quite a bit

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

World class is stretching it quite a bit

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Fair enough. but you know what i mean. How can a player go from beating two men, cutting inside and bending it into the bottom corner to not being able to control the ball? I think that everything that he does is just instinct, he doesn't seem to have any thought process or composure.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Fair enough. but you know what i mean. How can a player go from beating two men, cutting inside and bending it into the bottom corner to not being able to control the ball? I think that everything that he does is just instinct, he doesn't seem to have any thought process or composure.

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90% of the time he’s shit. Not a good footballer. Can tell within first 5 mins if he’s goimg to have a good game. Move him on I would.

Saturday's game was a boring pile of sh*te, it's true, but I came away from it thinking we'd taken a point of one of the Division's top sides. Last week, we did the same at Leeds, albeit in a totally different fashion. It was also another clean sheet. We're not doing too badly, and will still be in the mix come the last few games.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

NML is on a different level.When it goes right then it's world class, when it goes wrong it's like forest Gump on acid. He went through a stage where he'd run the ball out of play, seemingly not slowing up or trying to prevent it from happening.

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Do you remember Franz Carr 😂

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

By the same token, they had lost their previous three away games at QPR (0-2), Hull (0-4) and Derby (0-1). World-beaters they are not.

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Of the games that I have seen us play this season, only Brentford in the first half (and I suspect that it was more down to our tactics than theirs!) have looked a decent side.

Everyone else has looked beatable. And I'm sure that the opposition would have said the same about us!

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Originally Posted by Lawnmower

Do you remember Franz Carr 😂

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I do. Didn't he play for Forest or was it Villa? was he cursed by the bug as well?