A fairer Britain under the Tories?

nevre, never, ever :angry:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...y-alan-milburn

This body was set up in the coaltion driven by Nick Clegg who in my view was a decent MP (certainly better fan the one who beat him ).

I thought the coalition was a better body than what we have now, it brought in the poplar triple lock , raised personal allowances for the lower paid, bet fell foul of the right wing and the ridiculous decesion to hold the Brexit vote

It's only a crisis if she really cares about it. Helping the jams sounds good in you're first speech. Taking ideas from Gove, Johnson and Hammond will soon put pay to that. The fact that a corpse like Reece Mog is mentioned as a possible successor and has a backing tells me all I need to know about social mobility from the conservative party.

Hang on AndreW Marr is having a seance on his programme this morning and they have managed to make contact with Reece Mog. He can appear for 10 mins he says before the portal to the 17th century closes, 15 mins if he is allowed to defend Damien Green and modestly brush aside rumours that he will be the next prime minister.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Auntie Andy

nevre, never, ever :angry:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...y-alan-milburn

---

“The worst position in politics is to set out a proposition that you’re going to heal social divisions and then do nothing about it. It’s almost better never to say that you’ll do anything about it."

Inequality will widen and worsen. Makes no difference what political party holds sway in the Commons as the square mile down the road from there sets policy. To grow profits the cost inputs (wages and benefits) will decline. Universal Credit is primarily about reducing the handouts of those in employment.

^^
As you say in your first sentence, you haven't followed the story. You could have left it there eh?

But we get half a page of pointless Party Political ranting, while Social inequality rages on around you.

During your rant, you forgot to mention the Rt Hon Baroness Shepherd (Conservative) and the apparently neutral Paul Gregg (Professor of Economic and Social Policy and Director of the Centre for Analysis of Social Policy, University of Bath) and David Johnston (Chief Executive of the Social Mobility Foundation) all elected to quit also.

Who the hell is surprised that any politician has had a couple of other 'well paid positions' in his/her time?
jeez, where would we start with that one?!

We are none of us genius, even though a few 'round here' seem to pretend to be, but FFS read the story before launching on a party-political rant? :thumbup:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42218682

I’ll leave this story here. A fairer Britain under the Torries. Never, never, ever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ninianclark

You are then assuming / presuming that things would have been better if Corbyn had won ?

You play the cards you are dealt with - both in business and politics.

1. They are talking about relative poverty "For a couple with two children, aged five and 14, an income of less than £401 a week is considered relative poverty,"

2. I have recently earned less than that per week, when I have had no sales, Im self employed, I have good weeks and bad weeks. On my bad weeks that means I am in relative poverty then ?.

ps - Ive lived under Labour and Conservative Govts - so I know the cycle. The Mrs has a friend - who at the moment as a single mum - it does not pay her to work. Benefits takes care of it, and as such she would have to work a full week to get very little extra - child care would then wipe the extra out anyway.

---

But you don’t earn less than that figure every week. My guess is that an awful lot of people don’t earn anywhere near that amount per week.

Oh and whilst we are here don’t start me on self employed people. Never evaded or avoided a penny of tax ever 🙄.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ninianclark

Haha - have you ever run a company ?

I use my company money to pay for training - that would have gone on corporation tax, I pay into private pension (because by law I have to) that money would have gone on corporation tax, the list goes on.

You have a choice here Andy - you can pay for some training or you can pay the same amount of money in corp tax - what would you do first ? - what do you think is beneficial to Andy in Andy's world.

---

Who mentioned corporation tax? There are other taxes. Never done a cash in hand job? Ever avoided a bit of VAT? If not you must be the only self employed person in the world whose never done so 🤔

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ninianclark

I run my own Ltd Co (I am the boss), I have an accountant, my books are audited, they are signed off by the accountant. I cant go to my clients and ask for cash - or maybe you would :shrug:, I employ other people to then work on projects to complete the work. I'll ask the accountant to raise an invoice - and make it payable for cash - I'll tell you when he stops laughing.

PS - taxes applicable to me :-
VAT
Corporation Tax
Employers National Insurance
Employees National Insurance
Income Tax

---

But you didn’t answer my question. Have you ever avoided or evaded any taxes ever?

The Tories are lower than vermin. A.Bevan.

Says all you need to know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ninianclark

Cast your eye down Cardiff Bay and you will see a First Minister trying to deflect the blame for the suicide of one of his staff. Leighton Andrews tells his 'mate' Carwyn Jones about the bullies at the WAG

https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2017-...ghton-andrews/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-42243394
Even the Penarth Times... https://penarthnews.wordpress.com/20...g-allegations/

So Mr A Bevan was talking bollox, as well you know. Politicians just like everyone have the propensity to behave badly and do the wrong thing for the right reasons.

---

No he wasn't you Tory apologist he was ( and is ) bang on the money.

ninianclark you run your own LTD company and you pay income tax and NI contributions on your turnover !

you must be the first who does !!!

pretty sure most pay themselves just under the threshold of paying PAYE and NI contributions and taking out dividends instead just leaving corporation tax and dividend tax when that nasty letter comes from HMRC

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MOZZER2

ninianclark you run your own LTD company and you pay income tax and NI contributions on your turnover !

you must be the first who does !!!

pretty sure most pay themselves just under the threshold of paying PAYE and NI contributions and taking out dividends instead just leaving corporation tax and dividend tax when that nasty letter comes from HMRC

---

Exactly! Any self employed person who says they’ve never evaded tax is telling porkies.

And they are usually the ones who call anyone who falls on hard times scroungers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ninianclark

Oh dear - tweaked a nerve have we princess ?

Has been said many (f ucking times) Ive voted Lib Dem, Plaid, Tory and Labour over the years, wont be voting Labour anytime soon with the current incumbents occupying the seat.

Ps I dont apologies for anyone - apart from maybe your parents, they have my sympathy for bring up such a rude child.

---

My parents have both been dead for 20 years and the only rude brat on this thread is you you arrogant cyunt.

No nerve tweaked except yours you tough man. Bevan was quite correct in his view of self serving tories who do sweet f a for the working classes and just look after the business classes and the wealthy aristocrats. FACT as any one who knows anything about the history of Britain in the 20th century would know. Now go back to admiring yourself in the mirror.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BlueWales

My parents have both been dead for 20 years and the only rude brat on this thread is you you arrogant cyunt.

No nerve tweaked except yours you tough man. Bevan was quite correct in his view of self serving tories who do sweet f a for the working classes and just look after the business classes and the wealthy aristocrats. FACT as any one who knows anything about the history of Britain in the 20th century would know. Now go back to admiring yourself in the mirror.

---

Well said sir xxx

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ninianclark

I havent follwed the story other than they resigned in protest over lack of progress, dummies / pram etc.

What I would say about Alan Milburn though - all is not as it seems with the self appointed holy than though 'socialist'.

Alan strangely resigned from the Labour cabinet in 2003 despite being made Minister for Health, so he had the chance to put forward his reforms - but resigned saying he wanted to spend more time with his family - fair enough.

BUT - Alan then took a job as a 30k a year 'consultant' with a venture capitalist company called Bridgepoint. Bridgepoint jointly owned Alliance Medical. Aliance Medical mysteriously won a contract to provide scanning systems to the NHS - that contract was worth millions.

It so happened that the new Labour Health minister who awarded that contract was John Hutton - an ex flat mate of Alans.

Alan then setup a company (while in Parliament) with his wife , when he left politics he was earning over a 100k a year from a few different companies all health related private sector. AM strategy employees Milburm, his wife and his 2 sons. He has consultant directorships with lots of medical based companies.

Yet when he had the chance to make a change - he walked away - and he has done the same thing again.

Moralistic, health / welfare reformer he most certainly isnt. Good for him though as his health company is worth a lot of money for a one man consultancy.

http://www.bridgepoint.eu/en/our-team/alan-milburn/
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ate-healthcare

---

So rather than discuss the topic mentioned, you decide to go off topic and have a go at the author of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ninianclark

Sure about that ? , seems pretty tweaked to me, calm down dear you'll do yourself a mischief.

My voting record (as much s I can remember it anyway) General Elections
Voted for Kinnock, voted for Foot, Voted for Blair (just the once), voted Plaid, voted Lib Dem a few times once with Clegg and once with the guy before who was either Cable or Menzies from memory. Voted Conservative against Brown and voted Conservative against Blair the second time.

Local Elections in Cardiff have tended to be Plaid or Libs , mainly as I know both councillors in my ward - and they're decent people. Brexit undecided voter - and torn between both camps, 'out' on political reasons, mainly 'in' on economic reasons and it being a pain in the @rse.

---

Still yet to discuss the topic.....

Ps I dont apologies for anyone - apart from maybe your parents, they have my sympathy for bring up such a rude child.[/QUOTE]

You should take that back. You pulled me for calling Boris a nonce n I said fair enough. Be a gentleman Clarkey boy.

I've worked all my life I have very close family members whom have sucked on social benefits and free housing for most of there life, andbwell enjoyed it , terrible country we live in good job they dont live in the USA , Spain etc where's its very tough and accountable .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by life on mars

I've worked all my life I have very close family members whom have sucked on social benefits and free housing for most of there life, andbwell enjoyed it , terrible country we live in good job they dont live in the USA , Spain etc where's its very tough and accountable .

---

Spoken like a man that's never had to live off benefits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joecity

Spoken like a man that's never had to live off benefits.

---

Indeed I left school with little qualification and decided to look for any work and hours, no matter what shape it came in , even if it was close to the benefit model I'm sure a lot of folk do require genuine benefit and help ,however my point is our country gets a slagging off when its paying out 29 billion pa. Other countries treat their poor folk much worse.

I'm not saying it's right just saying we do input a hefty figure .

Trouble is we dont have mechanism to force those who are work shy into work , hence the need for cheaper foreign Labour to perform anti social hours jobs, in cleaning, catering ,hotel work farming,or fast food outlets .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by life on mars

Indeed I left school with little qualification and decided to look for any work and hours, no matter what shape it came in , even if it was close to the benefit model I'm sure a lot of folk do require genuine benefit and help ,however my point is our country gets a slagging off when its paying out 29 billion pa. Other countries treat their poor folk much worse.

I'm not saying it's right just saying we do input a hefty figure .

Trouble is we dont have mechanism to force those who are work shy into work , hence the need for cheaper foreign Labour to perform anti social hours jobs, in cleaning, catering ,hotel work farming,or fast food outlets .

---

Other countries treat their folk much worse :hehe:

And of course it’s all those poor peoples fault in it :biggrin:

128,000 children homeless

1,000,000 + food emergency food parcels distributed in a year

120,000 austerity linked deaths

134% increase in rough sleeping

8,000,000 people living in poverty

Public services decimated

And it’s all the fault of those bastard claiming benefits :thumbup:

It's just the notion that living off benefits is easy. Made worse by Tory propaganda and benefit porn programmes on the telly where cameras follow someone on benefits n they play up to the cameras. Good for you in doing well life on mars it's a good thing. I just don't think people 'sucking' up benefits are having the time of it some people think.

Good to see that Damian Green has now departed. The more this Govt is damaged the better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pearcey3

Good to see that Damian Green has now departed. The more this Govt is damaged the better.

---

Indeed, re first point.

But re second point - No longer a good time to have the distraction of a damaged Gov't perhaps.

A non-party-political coalition would be a superb option now.
Not going to happen as we know. Besides, majority of entrenched, partisan Britons would likely rather shoot themselves in the collective foot than even consider it.

I fear that we are nowhere near as smart as the average brexiteer seems to somehow think we are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pearcey3

Good to see that Damian Green has now departed. The more this Govt is damaged the better.

---

:thumbup:

A fairer Britain under the Tories

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/20/woman-...-cuts-7174470/

:frown:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vimto

Indeed, re first point.

But re second point - No longer a good time to have the distraction of a damaged Gov't perhaps.

A non-party-political coalition would be a superb option now.
Not going to happen as we know. Besides, majority of entrenched, partisan Britons would likely rather shoot themselves in the collective foot than even consider it.

I fear that we are nowhere near as smart as the average brexiteer seems to somehow think we are.

---

I don’t trust any of the fools in high office. May, Fox, Davis, Johnson etc etc. Dreadful politicians.
There are a few decent Tories like Ken Clark and Sarah Woolaston. However they are outnumbered by the hard right morons like Rees-Mogg
The sooner they get kicked out the better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Auntie Andy

Other countries treat their folk much worse :hehe:

And of course it’s all those poor peoples fault in it :biggrin:

128,000 children homeless

1,000,000 + food emergency food parcels distributed in a year

120,000 austerity linked deaths

134% increase in rough sleeping

8,000,000 people living in poverty

Public services decimated

And it’s all the fault of those bastard claiming benefits :thumbup:

---

This government is worse than Thatcher's

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

This government is worse than Thatcher's

---

Steady on , that twisted mean ole cuunt , stole my milk
surely this mob are not as bad
as that cuunt

The country population and need for everything to be free at the point of access is the issue.

Yes you could fund it all , borroe or tax tge rich more , open the borders and make hay , however be ready for no future for your grandchildren , this goverment is poor the coalition was okay, neither of them, or any Tory government compares with Thatcher thats madness , and we had fair less folk to care for when she got nasty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by life on mars

The country population and need for everything to be free at the point of access is the issue.

Yes you could fund it all , borroe or tax tge rich more , open the borders and make hay , however be ready for no future for your grandchildren , this goverment is poor the coalition was okay, neither of them, or any Tory government compares with Thatcher thats madness , and we had fair less folk to care for when she got nasty.

---

I read some survey the other day that calculated the typical person meets/interacts with 80,000 different people during the course of their lifetime. It got me thinking, and I reached for a calculator... it would mean at a maximum you or I would meet/interact with just one in every 8,250 fellow Britons - the rest of the 66 million will forever remain strangers. I don't really blame those using tax havens to pay as little as possible to HM Treasury for them to redistribute to those they will never encounter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

I read some survey the other day that calculated the typical person meets/interacts with 80,000 different people during the course of their lifetime. It got me thinking, and I reached for a calculator... it would mean at a maximum you or I would meet/interact with just one in every 8,250 fellow Britons - the rest of the 66 million will forever remain strangers. I don't really blame those using tax havens to pay as little as possible to HM Treasury for them to redistribute to those they will never encounter.

---

Either your calculator is broken or you are more pissed than usual.

Bloody hell, Dai, we had assumed you'd snuffed it.

Yes, it's 1 in 825.

This is where I saw the info: https://www.quora.com/How-many-peopl...-in-a-lifetime

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

Bloody hell, Dai, we had assumed you'd snuffed it.

Yes, it's 1 in 825.

This is where I saw the info: https://www.quora.com/How-many-peopl...-in-a-lifetime

---

After our comments about the people who cannot be criticised were deleted - probably by the Wife of Bath - I decided to not to bother. But I still lurk in order to correct some of the more egregious examples of innumeracy.