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Scotland stamps its feet
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
She doesn't seem to get it.
They had a referendum. Scotland voted to stay as part of the uk.
They had another referendum. The uk voted to leave the eu.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
Doesn't sound unreasonable to me.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
Maybe if they get another referendum and win the UK should refuse to accept the result.?
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dr Lecter
She doesn't seem to get it.
They had a referendum. Scotland voted to stay as part of the uk.
They had another referendum. The uk voted to leave the eu.
I agree, and she's only got little feet.
More likely it's a stitch-up, cos if you cast your mind back, the first thing May did as PM was to go and visit Nicola Sturgeon!
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
If Scotland ever vote for indy she better hope that every Scottish council voters for it otherwise she may have a taste of her own medicine.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
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Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
I agree, and she's only got little feet.
More likely it's a stitch-up, cos if you cast your mind back, the first thing May did as PM was to go and visit Nicola Sturgeon!
Probably for a bit of girl on girl action.
Now try getting that image out of your head.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dr Lecter
She doesn't seem to get it.
They had a referendum. Scotland voted to stay as part of the uk.
They had another referendum. The uk voted to leave the eu.
Do you actually think that they shouldn't have a say because of this? Really? I ask because it's a common point, and I'm trying to understand it.
It seems the case is 'they voted no to independence therefore we can still force them to do something they don't want to do'. Dangerous attitude
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tommy31
Do you actually think that they shouldn't have a say because of this? Really? I ask because it's a common point, and I'm trying to understand it.
It seems the case is 'they voted no to independence therefore we can still force them to do something they don't want to do'. Dangerous attitude
I'd be interested to see how Scotland would now vote on independence in view of Brexit, personally I think the Krankie woman would be left in limbo.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tommy31
Do you actually think that they shouldn't have a say because of this? Really? I ask because it's a common point, and I'm trying to understand it.
It seems the case is 'they voted no to independence therefore we can still force them to do something they don't want to do'. Dangerous attitude
Especially since by 'we', they mean England.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
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Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
Especially since by 'we', they mean England.
No, by "we" people mean the rest of the UK.
I have a lot of sympathy with Scotland as I do with London and Northern Ireland, if Wales had voted to leave but the rest of the country voted remain i'd be aggrieved too. However we voted as the United Kingdom on this issue and the devolved institutions must accept the result.
London, Belfast and Edinburgh, you lost this argument, move on.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
If there was enough independence referendum, I'd imagine Scotland would vote for independent
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
She doesnt seem to understand that they are out of european union whether they are part of the UK or not.
Its not a vote to stay in europe, we had the one. Its either out of europe and part of the UK, or out of europe and the UK. There is not in EU option available.
Either "apparently" ****ed out of europe and in the UK, or Truly fu ked out of both.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tommy31
Do you actually think that they shouldn't have a say because of this? Really? I ask because it's a common point, and I'm trying to understand it.
It seems the case is 'they voted no to independence therefore we can still force them to do something they don't want to do'. Dangerous attitude
They're not being forced to do anything.
They're part of the uk.
The uk has voted to leave the eu.
It's that simple.
Otherwise, where do you draw the line? Should we break the Euro vote down into regions? If the people of Cornwall voted to stay in should they be made a special case?
It's no different to a general election. The people of wales didn't vote for the Tories but Cameron (and now May) still govern us as we're part of the uk. I' m not happy about that but unless we become independent then that's how it is.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
Scotland voted to stay as part of the UK. She's doesn't accept this vote.
The UK voted to leave the EU. She doesn't accept this vote.
The US votes for Trump. Apparently, it wasn't the result she wanted but we have to accept it.
I've no idea what her thought process is.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
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Originally Posted by
Robin Friday's Ghost
Scotland voted to stay as part of the UK. She's doesn't accept this vote.
The UK voted to leave the EU. She doesn't accept this vote.
The US votes for Trump. Apparently, it wasn't the result she wanted but we have to accept it.
I've no idea what her thought process is.
She's a woman.
She's always right.
Even when she's wrong.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
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Originally Posted by
Dr Lecter
They're not being forced to do anything.
They're part of the uk.
The uk has voted to leave the eu.
It's that simple.
Otherwise, where do you draw the line? Should we break the Euro vote down into regions? If the people of Cornwall voted to stay in should they be made a special case?
It's no different to a general election. The people of wales didn't vote for the Tories but Cameron (and now May) still govern us as we're part of the uk. I' m not happy about that but unless we become independent then that's how it is.
Scotland voted to stay in the Eu. They're being forced out of it by England (and Wales).
I'd draw the line at countries of the UK, but would be sympathetic to any regions that wanted to stay. Generally countries is far enough though.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
Why are people surprised that she is making political capital out of this situation? Does anyone really expect her to say: yeah go on TM, Brexit is your show. All the parties are (quite rightly) trying to turn Brexit to their advantage only they are not doing it as effectively as the lovely Nicola, who is, as usual, playing a blinder.
Up the Scots!
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
At least the Scots are on their feet and stamping.
The Welsh are on their knees and licking the UKIP arses.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dr Lecter
They're not being forced to do anything.
They're part of the uk.
The uk has voted to leave the eu.
It's that simple.
Otherwise, where do you draw the line? Should we break the Euro vote down into regions? If the people of Cornwall voted to stay in should they be made a special case?
It's no different to a general election. The people of wales didn't vote for the Tories but Cameron (and now May) still govern us as we're part of the uk. I' m not happy about that but unless we become independent then that's how it is.
Scotland has had an independence vote and Cornwall wouldn't be allowed one. Scotland has its own national assembly and Cornwall doesn't have something that has the same powers etc. The analogy doesn't stand up.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
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Originally Posted by
Bluebird since 1948
No, by "we" people mean the rest of the UK.
I have a lot of sympathy with Scotland as I do with London and Northern Ireland, if Wales had voted to leave but the rest of the country voted remain i'd be aggrieved too. However we voted as the United Kingdom on this issue and the devolved institutions must accept the result.
London, Belfast and Edinburgh, you lost this argument, move on.
I'm afraid england and wales are not the equal partners you imagine them to be.
I think there is a good case for a second independence referendum.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
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Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
I'm afraid england and wales are not the equal partners you imagine them to be.
I think there is a good case for a second independence referendum.
On this issue we stand with England, the people have spoken in both countries and London, Belfast and Edinburgh were on the wrong side of the result.
I do agree with you RE second referendum but instead of trying to overturn Brexit (something we voted for as the UK) she needs to pick a date and have it. But she'd rather make threats, constantly bleat about the injustice of the result and make unrealistic demands of the UK government. She is trying to overturn something that the Welsh people voted for, that is not in the best interests of the people of Wales.
They said a second referendum was in order if there was a change in circumstances, I believe Brexit is a significant enough change to warrant indyref2, let's see how big Krankies bollocks are.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
I'm afraid england and wales are not the equal partners you imagine them to be.
I think there is a good case for a second independence referendum.
Why? They had their vote, they remained in the UK.
If they had a vote and they decided to leave the UK do you think it would be fair then that the people who wanted to remain would be allowed another vote?
The people of Scotland knew that remaining in the UK would mean their vote on the EU would be influenced outside of Scotland.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
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Originally Posted by
Bluebird since 1948
On this issue we stand with England, the people have spoken in both countries and London, Belfast and Edinburgh were on the wrong side of the result.
So was Cardiff ironically, any chance we can get a referendum vote as well? :biggrin:
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
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Originally Posted by
TruBlue
Why? They had their vote, they remained in the UK.
If they had a vote and they decided to leave the UK do you think it would be fair then that the people who wanted to remain would be allowed another vote?
The people of Scotland knew that remaining in the UK would mean their vote on the EU would be influenced outside of Scotland.
they wouldn't be the majority. In the brexit case, the majority is getting told you don't matter. Not a good precedent to set.
Like blue Wales said, Scotland is trying to get a good deal out of this. Wales is sitting in the corner twiddling it's thumbs. It's shameful
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
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Originally Posted by
tommy31
they wouldn't be the majority. In the brexit case, the majority is getting told you don't matter. Not a good precedent to set.
Like blue Wales said, Scotland is trying to get a good deal out of this. Wales is sitting in the corner twiddling it's thumbs. It's shameful
The same as the people who voted to leave the UK weren't the majority so why all this talk of a second independence vote?
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
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Originally Posted by
TruBlue
Why? They had their vote, they remained in the UK.
If they had a vote and they decided to leave the UK do you think it would be fair then that the people who wanted to remain would be allowed another vote?
The people of Scotland knew that remaining in the UK would mean their vote on the EU would be influenced outside of Scotland.
It is a massive change in circumstances given Scotlands massive vote to remain.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
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Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
It is a massive change in circumstances given Scotlands massive vote to remain.
2,001,926 Scots voted to remain in the UK
1,661,191 Scots voted to remain in the EU
Typing the word massive over and over won't change that.
You don't keep voting until you get your own way, that's not really how it works.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
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Originally Posted by
TruBlue
2,001,926 Scots voted to remain in the UK
1,661,191 Scots voted to remain in the EU
Typing the word massive over and over won't change that.
You don't keep voting until you get your own way, that's not really how it works.
I typed the word massive twice :S
At least you have finally found something you are passionate about, unfortunately it doesn't seem to be positive.
Quoting absolute numbers is just twisting reality. I could stick my fingers in my ears and say only ~30% of eligible voters in the UK wanted to leave the EU but it wouldn't reflect the result fairly.
Scotland voted to be in a UK that was very likely to remain in the EU. That being said, they would be mad to leave the UK at the moment but it doesn't change the fact that the landscape has changed.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
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Originally Posted by
Bluebird since 1948
On this issue we stand with England, the people have spoken in both countries and London, Belfast and Edinburgh were on the wrong side of the result.
I do agree with you RE second referendum but instead of trying to overturn Brexit (something we voted for as the UK) she needs to pick a date and have it. But she'd rather make threats, constantly bleat about the injustice of the result and make unrealistic demands of the UK government. She is trying to overturn something that the Welsh people voted for, that is not in the best interests of the people of Wales.
They said a second referendum was in order if there was a change in circumstances, I believe Brexit is a significant enough change to warrant indyref2, let's see how big Krankies bollocks are.
The whole debacle seems a bit unprofessional, surely all of this nonsense about whether MP's vote and then whether the devolved governments have a say should have been made clear before. We have no even reached the tricky bit about how the government approaches negotiation yet. Shambles.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
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Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
I typed the word massive twice :S
At least you have finally found something you are passionate about, unfortunately it doesn't seem to be positive.
Quoting absolute numbers is just twisting reality. I could stick my fingers in my ears and say only ~30% of eligible voters in the UK wanted to leave the EU but it wouldn't reflect the result fairly.
Scotland voted to be in a UK that was very likely to remain in the EU. That being said, they would be mad to leave the UK at the moment but it doesn't change the fact that the landscape has changed.
Pointing out the stupidity of your posts doesn't make me "passionate" more compassionate I'd say.
Is it really twisting reality? More people voted to stay in the UK than voted to stay in Europe. The figures are directly comparable.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
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Originally Posted by
TruBlue
The same as the people who voted to leave the UK weren't the majority so why all this talk of a second independence vote?
Leaving the EU is a big change in circumstance. It's fair they have another vote because it was a primary point on the remain side.
Fair play you sounds so totalitarian, 'they must do what we say'.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
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Originally Posted by
tommy31
Leaving the EU is a big change in circumstance. It's fair they have another vote because it was a primary point on the remain side.
Fair play you sounds so totalitarian, 'they must do what we say'.
On reflection, I partly agree with you on this point.
Nobody can say for sure how many scots voted to stay in the uk that would have voted differently if they had known about brexit. However it's probably fair to assume that a decent number may well fall into this category. On that basis alone, they've got a case for another referendum.
If they vote to stay as part of the uk after another referendum, then it'll put to bed the whole brexit argument.
If they choose to stay as part of the uk (knowing what they know now) then they follow whatever path the uk takes.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
Who knows what is going to happen with the EU after Brexit and Trump? There are some big elections coming up next year, and the winds of change may continue to blow. Maybe we won't be the only ones who are going to be leaving.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
There seems to be an assumption by the jocks that if they vote for independence that they will remain part of the EU and keep the £.
As far as I am aware this is not the case. They'd have to get in line for EU membership and adopt the euro
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
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Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
Who knows what is going to happen with the EU after Brexit and Trump? There are some big elections coming up next year, and the winds of change may continue to blow. Maybe we won't be the only ones who are going to be leaving.
I think plenty of people across Europe will be watching our exit closely, with the intention of looking to get out themselves.
The eu know this, that's why they're trying to talk tough - to discourage others from following suit.
The reality is that if we leave and everything is fine, then others will be not too far behind us.
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
The whole debacle seems a bit unprofessional, surely all of this nonsense about whether MP's vote and then whether the devolved governments have a say should have been made clear before. We have no even reached the tricky bit about how the government approaches negotiation yet. Shambles.
I agree with you. The blame is often put on the leave campaign for not providing a roadmap to Brexit, this blame is misplaced. Cameron should have put far more resources and manpower into a contingency plan should the electorate go against his governments wishes, I believe he never thought we would vote to leave. The leave campaign did provide a vision for a Brexit Britain, the onus is not on them to deliver that. Cameron failed to prepare and Mrs May has had a lot of work to do to rectify that.
Camerons failure has led to this situation with Sturgeon. Personally I believe all devolved powers and regions of England should have a say in how we Brexit. I do not believe they should have a veto or any special status, EU membership is not a devolved matter, that is clear. Mrs May should allow a second Scottish referendum, absolutely justified in my eyes but will Sturgeon call one?
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
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Originally Posted by
Bluebird since 1948
I agree with you. The blame is often put on the leave campaign for not providing a roadmap to Brexit, this blame is misplaced. Cameron should have put far more resources and manpower into a contingency plan should the electorate go against his governments wishes, I believe he never thought we would vote to leave. The leave campaign did provide a vision for a Brexit Britain, the onus is not on them to deliver that. Cameron failed to prepare and Mrs May has had a lot of work to do to rectify that.
Camerons failure has led to this situation with Sturgeon. Personally I believe all devolved powers and regions of England should have a say in how we Brexit. I do not believe they should have a veto or any special status, EU membership is not a devolved matter, that is clear. Mrs May should allow a second Scottish referendum, absolutely justified in my eyes but will Sturgeon call one?
Can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with every word
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
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Originally Posted by
Dr Lecter
On reflection, I partly agree with you on this point.
Nobody can say for sure how many scots voted to stay in the uk that would have voted differently if they had known about brexit. However it's probably fair to assume that a decent number may well fall into this category. On that basis alone, they've got a case for another referendum.
If they vote to stay as part of the uk after another referendum, then it'll put to bed the whole brexit argument.
If they choose to stay as part of the uk (knowing what they know now) then they follow whatever path the uk takes.
I can't really see anyone disagreeing with this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bluebird since 1948
I agree with you. The blame is often put on the leave campaign for not providing a roadmap to Brexit, this blame is misplaced. Cameron should have put far more resources and manpower into a contingency plan should the electorate go against his governments wishes, I believe he never thought we would vote to leave. The leave campaign did provide a vision for a Brexit Britain, the onus is not on them to deliver that. Cameron failed to prepare and Mrs May has had a lot of work to do to rectify that.
Camerons failure has led to this situation with Sturgeon. Personally I believe all devolved powers and regions of England should have a say in how we Brexit. I do not believe they should have a veto or any special status, EU membership is not a devolved matter, that is clear. Mrs May should allow a second Scottish referendum, absolutely justified in my eyes but will Sturgeon call one?
decent post (probably first time I've said it). On the bit in bold, she'd be mad to call one until they know the terms of brexit.
Also TH63 (forgot to quote), Croatia recently joined the EU. They don't use the euro. It's possible to join and not take up the euro. On the trajectory we're going at the moment, it seems the wise position would be to leave the £
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Re: Scotland stamps its feet
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Originally Posted by
Bluebird since 1948
I agree with you. The blame is often put on the leave campaign for not providing a roadmap to Brexit, this blame is misplaced. Cameron should have put far more resources and manpower into a contingency plan should the electorate go against his governments wishes, I believe he never thought we would vote to leave. The leave campaign did provide a vision for a Brexit Britain, the onus is not on them to deliver that. Cameron failed to prepare and Mrs May has had a lot of work to do to rectify that.
Camerons failure has led to this situation with Sturgeon. Personally I believe all devolved powers and regions of England should have a say in how we Brexit. I do not believe they should have a veto or any special status, EU membership is not a devolved matter, that is clear. Mrs May should allow a second Scottish referendum, absolutely justified in my eyes but will Sturgeon call one?
Yeah agree with this. Leave campaign was a campaign, they trod on dangerous ground when they were seen by some to be making promises but the flip side is that they can't be expected to plan the future either.