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I notice a few people sharing reports from this lot on social media recently. They are self imposed "paedophile hunters" that claim to try and catch online groomers. Trouble is they aren't just passing on their information to the police, they posting names and photos of people that haven't been convicted of anything.
I'm sure that they are well intentioned in what they are trying to achieve but it doesn't sit comfortably with me at all and invites mob mentality and vigilantism.
There are a load of them on youtube.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Shitpeas
As entrapment is illegal, the catchers are also acting illegally.
The main guy, can't remember his name, he sometimes brings some pretty aggressive people with him.
Some of them are so cringeworthy I couldn't finish them.
It is weird because sometimes you can't help but feel bad for them, when you really, really shouldn't.
There are more rules coming into force next year or something I heard on 1 video. That means entrapment leads to a much worse sentence.
these are not innocent people though are they ? ? ?
I read about one, he knew she was 12 years old ( he was pretending to be 14 ) and was asking for naked pics, now i am not sure how that can be misinterpreted, the guy was bang to rights, caught red handed
Now sure, of course the details should be handed over to the police and then the courts to drag its heels and maybe the guy will serve time and then get the punishment inside ? ? ?
Do you trust these people to get things right? What if they made a mistake and your face got plastered all over facebook as a paedophile? Next thing you've got a mob of local nutcases kicking your head in and your kids getting bullied in school etcQuote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
There are ways to go about things, I don't think this the right way.
dont get me wrong, while my post appears to agree with the actions, I dont really agree, yet I dont disagree either, we can all see what they are doing has massive merits, they are exposing the lowest of the low in our societyQuote:
Originally Posted by Barry Shitpeas
The Police / CPS and courts get it wrong as well
it is a tough question to answer
Pedophilia: A Disorder, Not a Crime
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/06/op...rime.html?_r=1
I really don't know how I feel about what I just read tbh.
Some people also believe they have a strong liking for pizza, but the BBC strenuously denies that it's anything more than a casual link.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R
it is a disorder that if acted upon can lead to a crime. people don't choose to be attracted to children. they just are. I have no idea of the evolutionary purpose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R
It is a tricky one. Some rudimentary biology from Secondary School would suggest that it makes no sense for a human to be sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children. Can we call it a disorder? Would we follow the same logic and say being gay is a disorder?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R
Unfortunately the human race is too convinced that kicking their heads in, or hoping someone else does, will solve the problem.
After seeing that gunman story I think pizzagate is a massive psyop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
I get that, I just don't know how I feel about it being normalized in the same way as homosexuality, I'm trying to think about it without any emotions being attached.Quote:
Originally Posted by TISS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R
This is a worry for me
Society is so happy to " normalise " anything and everything, what is next ? ? ? Do we feel sorry for them as they cannot help the " urge " ? ? ? or do we celebrate them who do not " abuse children " afteralll they are doing so well keeping the " urge " in check
It's a tough one, I watched a documentary about a guy who never acted on his urges, he seemed like a nice guy and came across like he would never hurt a child but all the time I was thinking that he thinks about having sex with children, I found it hard to get past that, I'm not sure I want to get past it either.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
Agree entirely. It's all very well saying "we can all see what they are doing has massive merits, they are exposing the lowest of the low in our society", but that's not always the case is it - they also sometimes responsible for turning the life of innocent people into a nightmare.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Shitpeas
That may well be the case but that is when you realise your actions are different from your animal instincts.Quote:
Originally Posted by TISS
You know right from wrong at what, 3 years old?.
Many men and women have urges but don't follow them through.
This is no different.
Edit - I think I may have just said exactly what you've said. Nevermind...
I don't know about you, but I didn't really enjoy this in any way:Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV-urZ2SaIw
I'm not sure who gains from that sort of public shaming.
Youtube remove them regularly.
surprised no-one has linked the Paediatrician story from over 16 years ago as a example of the mistakes that people make
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...iles-here.html
I don't think anyone is looking to normalise it (at least nobody in mainstream society). In the comparison with homosexuality there is no harm done to anyone in a loving homosexual relationship, indeed there is some evidence that it can have an evolutionary benefit to the wider group.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R
Paedophilia does cause harm though which is why even if the desire for it in some people is something that they cannot help it will never be normalised or accepted.
One thought on this - how easy would it be for someone to stitch an enemy up to one of these vigilante groups?
Go on there pretending to be someone else and chat up their fake underage girls, whilst at the same time pretend to be a woman and chat up your enemy, arrange to meet up at the same place with both and then BAM. Your enemy is outed as a paedo, gets a kicking and posters all over their neighbourhood.
Yes, I may be an evil genius. None of you should cross me
Sorry but your plan is flawed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
How would you know it's a fake underage girl?
Unless you were sure it was a trap - in which case surely all the real paedos would be able to spot the fake and they'd never catch anyone - all that would happen is that some girl would be looking for another youngster and the person you're trying to frame would be looking for another adult.
Also, let's assume you know it's a set up. Would you really take the chance of trying to frame someone else while using your own computer that can be traced? It wouldn't be much of a defence to say that you were grooming an underage girl just to frame someone else for it.
If they are 'not innocent' then they will have already been found guilty.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
No need for rent-a-mob to get involved.
Like almost all humans, I find any kind of child-abuse utterly abhorrent but I also find it rather disturbing (though not altogether surprising) regards just how 'involved and motivated' individuals can become when there is an opportunity to get mob-handed round up on others to give them a hard time - and maybe even a kicking. Apparently over allegations or rumour.
Child abuse is - quite rightly - an emotive subject but once society embraces Vigilantism then that society starts to break down.
If we condone it for any reason, then further down the line it might be that any of, us or our families, may find themselves set-upon for any number of other reasons.
Mob rule is not the way to deal with things in the 21st century.
Social Media platforms which - for all it's benefits - is unfortunately facilitating those with a disposition to engage in 'shared outrage' to form swarms very rapidly.
Fella was an actor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R
found guilty by who ? ? ? our judicial i guess you meanQuote:
Originally Posted by Vimana.
when i said they were 'not innocent', these hunters spend a long time being " groomed ", these Paedo Groomers havent done it be accident, these hunters are pretending to be 12 or 13 year olds, they may well " entrap " these paedophiles, but lets be honest, they are trying to groom " kids " and meeting them in car parks etc etc, they are not innocent in my eyes, they might not have " committed a crime of child abuse " yet, but meeting in a car park is only heading one way imho
just for the record, i have never condoned mod rule or actionsQuote:
Originally Posted by Vimana.
What we choose to normalise in our society and what we make taboo can be quite contradictory. For instance, you can get into trouble for smacking your kids but it is considered acceptable to hand over your male offspring to a religious person to perform an act of violence on its genitals (circumcision).Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
As for pedos – I understand the urge to kill them but I read an article by a guy who works with them who said that if you brought back the death penalty for their crimes the number of dead children would rise dramatically. They would be more inclined to kill their victims to avoid the death penalty.
Mods out! :ayatollah:Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
^^ Fair enough, understood.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
Handing any information to the Police is where it should stop.
Potential entrapment cases and the fall-out from vigilante acts will not help in the campaign to deter / catch / deal with Paedophiles.
Good to see you are not taking your mod role too seriously ;)
The amount of people in the " online crimes " section ( or whatever they call it now ) of the police is shocking, a few year back ( might have been 3 ) I watched a documentary about it, the whole of the UK had about 30 people doing it, do we think the police would have enough man power to deal with this ? ? ? ? maybe if they could look at browsing history and use it in a court to convict these low life Paedo Groomers, it might put a few of them behind barsQuote:
Originally Posted by Vimana.
Then we will have the people say " do we trust the police with this ? ? ? "
its my life :xmasthumbup: i live for the jobQuote:
Originally Posted by Vimana.
I think you are missing the point, they are innocent until found guilty in a court of law, that is the system we have and frankly I prefer that to 'trial by youtube clip'.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
These guys make a big show of it, they put themselves at risk and probably make a lot of people feel uncomfortable. If I am sitting down to my nuggets I don't really want to see all of that. If they want to be helpful - find the guy, ring the police, follow him, hand over the docs, give your statement, disappear into the night like a hero. They want to be celebs.
In your opinion? Or do you have any evidence to back this up?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
Why would I say it if I couldn't back it up? I can back up everything I post on here that doesn't originate from inside my own brain. Regarding the actor, a little birdie told me that IMDB might be a good place to start looking :xmashehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
Ok so after a rudimentary search it turns out that this guy had a couple of small acting roles several years ago that are listed on IMDb.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
Let me guess. As a result the conspiracy websites are now saying that this *must* mean that this guy was paid to storm into a pizza place with a loaded weapon as part of the conspiracy?
It's kind of equally sad and amusing that this guy was probably an avid reader of these sites and not only has that got him arrested, but now the sites he loved have probably turned on him as well and now consider him to be part of the conspiracy.
No need to guess, just stick to the facts. He's an actor :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk