I want o give a p45 to Jeremy Corbyn. You have just been handed one by Simon Brodkin. He is not a protestor he is a not very funny comedian with form.
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I want o give a p45 to Jeremy Corbyn. You have just been handed one by Simon Brodkin. He is not a protestor he is a not very funny comedian with form.
I just watched more of her speech, not all of it, I admit. She cant help a sore throat, She cant help a nob like Brodkin pulling stunt's. I just haven't seen a leader this flat since I was ever for first interested in politics.
Mostly she said : cough , cough , cough , wheeze , cough , high pitched phrase , cough , cough ,
cough , ( given a break by sycophantic audience who clap out of embarassment or amusement or shame )
cough , cough , makes a noise like she has inhaled a helium balloon, cough , cough , cough ..........
The set collapsed as well didn't it? Again not much you can do about that. This government though. Stale. Divided. Incompetent. Defensive. Oh my day's.
I've never voted Tory and never will do, but I'd always recognised them as something of an election winning machine that other parties, notably the one I've voted for most of my life, would have done well to try to emulate in some regards. However, that recognition of their competence when it comes to strategy and professionalism has disappeared since Cameron's reckless gamble regarding the in/out EU vote and has transformed into farce and sheer incompetence under May.
Even after they started voting for them as the largest party again in 2010, I've never felt the British people liked the Conservatives, but they did have a belief that they were best equipped to deal with a challenging decade which now looks to be extended significantly beyond that. I fail to see now why the voters should have the same faith in the Tory party any more - this Government is one of the most inept, most lacking in competence and most accident prone I've seen, they need to put put of their misery.
I just look at this conservative party and wonder. All they do is shadow Labour policies but don't go far enough with them. Just go for the full fat version. They will build 250o0 houses this parliament They say. What on earth will that do? Labour say they will try and deliver 1000000. Even if they only managed half of that You could argue it is a job well done. The conservatives are more than happy to pay their private landlord mates eye watering amounts of housing benefit but then vote against plans to make private rented accommodation fit for hum habitation. They want to add more money to the 1st time buyer's scheme. All that does is push prices up Making it even further out of reach for the next generation. Means they pay more in housing benefit to their old mates again. Supply and demand. The very essence of the free market. We are nowhere near meeting the supply demanded. We never will be under this government. They will tell you' ah but we can deliver'. Who couldn't deliver such a meagre offering?
Labour manifesto was costed.
Conservative manifesto was not.
The conservatives want to cap energy prices. They pulled out of doing that last time because it meddles in a free market. It's back on the table now. Its a Labour policy but once again the conservative version goes nowhere near enough and will just be more of the same. Get the watchdog to do it so they are not really getting involved at all.
The 70's were a very long time ago. the 90's were as well. No government is perfect and all debate is valid and most welcome. Today's problems require today's solution. All previous governments have had a hand in where we are today. All 3 of the big ones in their own way have led us up this path. All blame each other of course.
Strong bold policies are what required. Get half of it done and your still winning. Get it all done and we would be better off. I'm convinced.
More of the same is just not good enough. It really isn't.
Kinell, boys, you're being played. When will you catch on that the truth is you have no choice? Whatever the make up of government, you get the same thing, and that is being ground down by taxes, inflation (a stealth tax), ever more laws, rules and regulations and snooping into your private affairs. Banks and corporations run the show from behind the curtain while their politicians are on stage.
The country operates on a sea of debt, both public and private as the state and vast numbers of people live beyond their means. It's most obvious when studying welfare expenditure. Should one - Housing Benefit - of the dozens of different payments be removed tomorrow then by Christmas there'd be more homelessness than in Victorian times.
Points taken. No change there then as you say. Sitting on my hands is not for me. Banks and Corporations seem ever less answerable to the public and governments alike I agree. Governments are answerable though. How they decide to run their affairs and who's interests they serve is a choice for them and then for us in turn. Big companies deciding how much tax they pay is the scourge of our time. How nobody went to Jail following the Crash in 07 is beyond me. Of course the country operates on massive debts. To do nothing though is just to advocate it. I can't obviously do much but I can vote for a party that seems to want to do something where it can.
Jeremy Corbyn and his party need to come off the fence about Brexit I fully agree. The point about tax being paid in Country of operating is a good one.
Tax is always the noose around Labour's neck it seems. Creating an environment of low skilled/ low wage folks who can by hired and fired at will is not the answer either. It is for Starbucks, Amazon etc. That is the way it is going as I see it. I am happy to be corrected, educated, I just think the Labour manifesto was more imagnative when you compare it to the only real alternative. I don't buy that companies will just f*ck off if they achieve office. We would still have the lowest corporation tax in Europe under the proposed increase. Am I wrong on that? I son't mind being corrected at all. That's how I understand it.
Good stuff n I will have to have a better more considered read of it Mambo.
Quick point before I get myself out the door.
We supposedly have near full employment now or very close to. Wages barely rising if at all. Worker's rights have never been so flimsy. Supply and demand is not working there in my opinion. Workers should be able to charge more for their labour I mean. Not happening.
Corporation tax: thanks for the numbers maybe am thinking of the developed big economies if you like where corporations want to be. (No diss) The lowest out of them. Again might be wrong.
I got to go now mate. I'm not sure if I use this board right. For the back n forth discourse I mean. I enjoy posting with you and others so I guess that's right. Nice 1.
You use this board just fine. It's your opinion that matters and the diffences of opinion are what keep the board going.Quote:
Originally Posted by joecity
I'm sure there's plenty of people with more knowledge than you (certainly more than than me) but that doesn't mean your voice isn't as valid.
Besides which, if you get something wrong there's usually someone who'll pop up and let you know :thumbup:
Thanks mate. What I was getting at is that I only started posting ere recently and I don't know about etiquite if you like. Ol Mambo makes some good points there which I would be more than happy to think about and tackle. I don't know everything if much at all but I do know what I think is right. I am certainly happy to hear other opinions. I think what I mean is it better to half answer or just wait until I got the time to fully get into it if you know what I mean. Like a back n forth with Mambo there. I peeps into this space when I can and enjoy it. Long live the City. Mambo hold it down. I got plenty more to say but not enough time right now. Good stuff by my measure. Thanks boy's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Lecter
Just be yourself Joe. Say what you like , when you like and don't worry about some old and young farts who like to bully posters.Quote:
Originally Posted by joecity
Welcome aboard.
Fine postin Mambo my friend. It is .Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo
Workers right's...What constitutes a worker anymore is not the same as it was. Uber for example bend the lines as to ignore them as best as I can see. When I say rights have never been so 'Flimsy' I say this with them in mind along with others. You have to take the calls they give you, you must follow the route they decide is the best one, reduced pay for those who deviate. You have no right to send someone else in to drive that taxi for the day if you are ill. Passes the test as a worker for me. You are a worker in all but name, yet you are classed as self employed. I am not suggesting for the beat of one heart that you support such practice but I just think that it is indicative of the current government Lazy attitude towards whats right for the people and what's right for business. Uber has it's plus points i'm sure and surely has been dreamed up by sharp minds who look at a system to find it's weak links and get in there. Why wouldn't they? just seems to start a trend that other's will happily follow.I wouldn't think well done though I just think they take the piss. I completely not saying you think it's right either mind I say again. I just like talking/typing?
Working time directive...Not binding. Simple opt out. sign this and there you go. It is a choice of course but you would have less of a choice to make if you said no. It would be made for you.
Supply and demand.. I cant disagree but economists would expect pay to rise as full employment nears. I take your points. Well made. Productivity is weak in the u.k we all know. Hours are long and pay is low never mind inwards investment. Any link? as a layman I would have thought so.
Easy answers.. It is a puzzle of mamoth proportions indeed. I see no answers put forward by the team in charge.
American companies taking the piss. I fully agree. We want a trade deal with these guy's? Going further we need one post brexit. They don't give a sh*t bout us going on previous/current arrangement's. I just hope we get a better one than what we got now. They can't use EU law to hide behind. I think you sense opportunity there as do I. More of the same just won't do.
Good stuff mate.
:thumbup: ta mate. I like this board n i love the city. It's a win win.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueWales
Got to add Mambo here ain't a bully, I know you're not saying that but point taken. Ta. safeQuote:
Originally Posted by joecity
And replaced with whatQuote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Some enthusiasm.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
It will have to be UKIP then , they're awful, but very bouncy and super enthusiasticQuote:
Originally Posted by joecity
Are they still a thing? They can have a go..why not. They haven't got any MPs as I understand it so Cabinet meetings will be just like the ones going on now.:tumbleweed: interjected with more :tumbleweed: Good stuff Mars mate.
Thing is there's been little evidence to suggest this, other than anecdotal, except in construction and maybe the care industry. Decent jobs, despite a massaged unemployment figure that has for decades painted a very unrealistic picture, are still not easy to come by. In a buoyant job market, workers can more easily move from job to job, forcing employers to offer better wages and conditions to keep their staff. Companies have been able to fire at will and control the market for a decade or so - rather than companies being grateful for having staff, they know workers have trouble getting alternative work and so they can treat them as they wish (to a certain extent).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo
Legislation to stop companies employing immigrants over her illegally should be a priority, but there are enough unscrupulous bosses who enjoy the slave labour.
Speaking of unscrupulous bosses, they're aided by a culpable state.
Only three out of 700 firms prosecuted for paying below minimum wage - https://www.theguardian.com/society/...w-minimum-wage
Again, it's a case of not wanting to lose your own voters. Most bosses and entrepreneurs are likely to be Tory voters, even members. As I mentioned previously about illegal immigrant workers, the government turns a blind eye as it is in their interest to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.
I'm of the understanding that France has developed legislation that makes it very difficult to employ immigrants etc on low wages, off the record (so to speak). For us to do similarly, it would not go down well with some close to the Conservative party. It's not in their interest, where profits and making money are more important.
Terresa has said very little today as her throat is still sore, however what she has said over the last week is louder than most .
Don't get it. What do you mean pal ? Do you mean her 'balls in the EU courts' address when it clearly isn't. Good stuff Mars mate. Hope u good.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41576100Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
I see Labour as a viable alternative to the Tories these days by the way and find attempts by May and others in her Government to portray themselves as the "safe pair of hands" Labour aren't as utterly laughable given the six months her party has had.
About that Mambo me old mate. The office for Budget Responsibillty has downgraded the forecast for productivity for the next five years. Think they say because artificially low interest rates are propping up bad companies that would otherwise go to the wall in a free market. Growth seems to be artificially stimulated then. Do you think cheap labour is also a factor in this or am I missing some point. Hope you are good there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo
A bit to broad a question, which bits?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo
I gonna go away and think on what you said Mambo mucker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo
So machines increase productivity instead of a well insentivised worker. The 2 together would be best I would have thought. Low paid workers-low productivity and no machines in this country. I going to go and check relative employment rates in France per capita, disregard cultural bias then look at inwards investment and then get back to you.
That sound like I'm being funny. I'm not I promise. I just got to try to work out how to do it. I been looking at parrots on the main board and telling Louth to get fecked this morning so you can see what I mean.
By the way you always so 'I got to get back to work', Makes me feel like I'm intruding.
Take care mate. Good posts.
Soz mate that sounded sarcky like. I mean I go look on it further.Quote:
Originally Posted by joecity
So, for me austerity is a failed project, they have missed every target and the very wealthy are getting richer and richer throughout. It is ideologically driven and once you are wedded to an ideology you miss opportunities. They sold austerity on the back of comparing the nations finance to a household budget which is obviously such a load of nonsense I don't even need to explain why.
I guess where it all falls down to me is this - When life becomes solely a competition of who can get to the top everybody suffers. The divisiveness of the last few years is unprecedented and as usual it is a theme (public vs private, all vs those on benefits, born here vs immigrants) passed down from the top because it suits them for everybody to be arguing with each other. A doctor needs a builder and a builder needs a doctor, society needs both to function and unfortunately for me the conservative ideology is that FOR society to function the doctor needs to screw the builder and the builder needs to screw the doctor. Weirdly this 'dog eat dog' mantra of recent times seems to go hand in hand with flag waving nationalism, either we share common goals or we are just a bunch of people unlucky enough to be living near each other - they need to choose.
What is the centre ground? Corbyn's policies almost all poll more than 50%, are we an extreme left country?!
I work in my local county council and I see lazy people and I see massive waste, often at the top and usually because of short term thinking driven by budget concerns. I am all for tackling that but unfortunately what I have seen is vital services being dropped and people being forced to work absurd hours or accept that they can't help the family that they could 5 years ago.
We need to encourage businesses that actually stand a chance of succeeding. I remember an interview with a childcare provider after the minimum wage went up and he was guilt tripping 'society' for driving the change. The reality is, if you can't pay your staff the amount that it costs to live without going broke then you don't have a viable business model, he isn't an entrepreneur, he is a guy taking a chance and unfortunately his idea bombed. I certainly don't want businesses who rely on the taxpayer to be dictating to the taxpayer.
Where I will agree is on the point about collecting corporation tax. A government can't plug all the holes. I don't know how you tackle that but I guess we as consumers need to drive change by favouring businesses who operate fully within this country. I also don't agree with nationalising for the sake of it, the railways are a completely failed privatisation, none of the benefits of competition but wacking great subsidies and prices that go up every year without fail. I can't see the harm in trying a new way at this point.
The main problem in politics these days is you can't criticise something without being lumped in the polar opposite camp. Clearly the railway privatisation is garbage, do I wan't 'British Rail' back? Not really. Clearly introducing University fees and trying to create a marketplace and competition hasn't worked at all, do I want completely free university education? Not without massive reform.
The Chancellor has just warned that Brexit and the uncertainty around it is putting off investment. The referendum called by the business party. Sorry meant the Conservatives. Mambo mate you have lived through many governments and bear the scars, it's plain too see. I would just wonder that the scars on the next generation will hurt a lot more( sorry that's a horrible analogy) . The old saying 'They have never had its so good' only relates to a fraction now mate. Young people are fecked now In my opinion. How could it be worse?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo
Labour are a genuine and credible alternative for me. Old voters who are against them and have most assets are dying off. They can leave a legacy from days of old to their family and that's fair enough if they haven't used all the equity to live off in current times. Old arguments don't cut it no more made by the old guard who say the same old sh*t. Not you I mean.
Why not nationalise some things with all the know how gleaned from free market intervention? Keep and re invest the profits not pay suits and Pension pots which don't really exist no more.
Energy, Transport,Local Housing,Health They should work for all.
Other markets they can exploit anyway. Marxism? Did you mention Venezuela by name?
I know you say things for us to think upon. Thanks
Plus I still thinking about productivity stats. Don't let me keep you me old mate. Good luck.
Good stuff. Why couldn't Rail being brought back into the fold be good though. You wouldn't be getting British Rail back. It would be something new with all the lessons learned from the previous wouldn't it. The best performing line is under government control isn't it. East Anglia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman
Sorry mate I am a bit lazy with my research sometimes cause I get bogged down with facts and go off on tangents. You work in a local authority so you have seen austerity in action. You also know about best practice policies, time n management studies, things that are done to slimline service without affecting output. Couldn't these be used in modern day returning private enterprise into the house. I still struggle to understand why we let business run Rail. I don't understand why power, rail, health are left to business in this day n age.
Investment, waste, people tell me but they make massive profits so they not really investing are they? or am I just wrong cause I could easily be. Taking money out of the country to replace it with shit jobs with disputes galore and not much security. If money was ring fenced to a degree with a formula like the Barnet Formula sort off wouldn't every body win overall. I know there is nothing as a perfect world but this state of affairs is pretty shite.
Other countries building our power stations,(Expertise you could argue but we built our own ones) running our rail franchises, providing our health care at certain points, doing our assessments for dss getting into local government, outsourced this and outscored that to what end?
I am not being a little Islander but where do we benefit from the half arsed way it's being done. Essential services. Cant we do them ourselves?
There are many different reasons for privatisation, railways was ideological and to weaken the unions. Disability assessments being done privately is about removing public liability for horrid decisions - government want us to blame the company and not them. Forced academisation of schools was a push towards entirely private schooling but the government couldn't get that done.Quote:
Originally Posted by joecity
I think we can spend our money more wisely than re-nationalising things at a premium cost to the taxpayer, railways can be done one by one as the franchises expire so that works. That is why I wouldn't be in favour of things like the national grid or entire energy sector being brought back into public hands.
Hinckley is simply PFI under a different name, it seems very unlikely that we get a 'good' deal (one where we pay less in total than we would have if we were building it ourselves). This government don't appear to be able to draw the distinction between capital investment and day to day expenditure. They have taught the public to be dumb and now are forced to live by that.
Thanks mate. I thinking about this. i know Labour are talking about ending PFI and bringing it back in house if you know what I mean. PFI dreamed up under a Tory government but used with enthusiasm by Labour, Can they offer good value? do you know of such? I'm sure it can work under the right circumstance or is it really just a Wonga pay day loan. Why couldn't the government just lend the money at the low rates that they can rather than asking the private sector to do it then add they're cut in for good measure. These things occupy a lot of time in my mind so all thoughts welcome. Nice one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman
Nonsense. They voted Brexit in the main as a protest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo
Take South Wales. Are you seriously telling me that huge swathes of immigrants have had an effect on wages? Really? Absolute bollocks. It's interesting that immigration is seen as a problem in Wales, yet it's a part of Britain that has been far less affected by immigration than most other areas (historically Wales is mostly made up of immigration, but that's another story). The parts of Wales that voted Brexit most strongly are the areas that have had the lowest amounts of immigration.
Too many people swallowed the bullshit the media gave them. Too many people have been swayed by the blame immigrants tale, in the same way that they are swayed by the benefit scrounger tale. It's called divide and conquer. Blame those in society that can't fight back.
Brexit is a sham. It won't make any difference to the type of immigration people don't want (only the UK government can do that). It won't make any difference to wages, until we fail to get trade deals and we're living in UK PLC sweat shop and wages go down.
It wrecks my head every time.
Loads of people voted for Brexit cause of immigration cause they seen rent, house prices go up. Wages flat line n fall compared to inflation. Standard of living plummet, less security or a sense there of. Fkn jobs where you are on a endless repeat of 8 week conrtacts through agency's who rob you're money cause next man ready to fill youre boots.. No pensions. Que for the doctor that you used to see at a shorter notice. Bigger school classes, less teachers. Less public service's and spread more thinly.
It ain't racist to think so like some would say (not you guys) and it don't make you stupid but it does fudge the issue. Immigration has always been in the hands of the government the same as investing in things have. Seems they can't do either. Non politically speaking they all a shower of c*nts cause all of the 3 are involved in this crock.
I don't think EU migration is the root cause of all of this. Non Eu migration must surely be culpable the same. Is migration even part of the problem. You cant just let folk come n set up life's. Work hard pay tax but then not build any new houses or schools or NHS provision to accomodate such an increase when you couldn't even provide in the first place.
Maybe the government likes it like this. Maybe. Blame each other instead of them for the abhorent lack of ambition and investment that is on show and the feckin sh*t standard of living that keeps you awake at night now.