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Lee Tomlin question....
And apologies if this has been asked and discussed already but.....I read recently that Colin said that Tomlin still isn't match fit, and so can't play a full 90 mins.
I know that he has had the court case hanging over him and is now doing his Community Service as a result, but is Tomlin carrying some long term injury which is preventing him from getting fully fit, as if that IS the case, he wouldn't be playing at all?
Colin made some reference to Tomlin's 'genes' (I suspect that he is unlucky enough to have to work on fitness far more than most, which must be a right pain) but why ISN'T he match fit? We have had him for a few months now, and he hasn't been playing, so how long does it take to become match fit?!
I can't wait to see him as a regular starter.
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
He's probably fit..
But to get MATCH fit then he needs game time I'd imagine.
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
You get match fit when you play matches, he has no injuries, just that with the court case and community service not exactly getting full training is he? and they way the team has been playing, Warnock did not want to change a winning team, there is going to be plenty of opportunity for him in the new year :xmasthumbup:
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Who is this "COLIN" fella :frown::frown:
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Igovernor
You get match fit when you play matches, he has no injuries, just that with the court case and community service not exactly getting full training is he? and they way the team has been playing, Warnock did not want to change a winning team, there is going to be plenty of opportunity for him in the new year :xmasthumbup:
Let me find the interview with Colin and you'll see what I mean.
'Sharpness' comes with playing games, but he clearly states that Tomlin has not be match fit and not able to complete 90 mins. That to me is very odd as he has been with us since the summer and must have had SOME level of fitness when he joined....
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobby Dandruff
Let me find the interview with Colin and you'll see what I mean.
'Sharpness' comes with playing games, but he clearly states that Tomlin has not be match fit and not able to complete 90 mins. That to me is very odd as he has been with us since the summer and must have had SOME level of fitness when he joined....
Here you go:
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/f...rnock-14042236
'We lose him for a day a week' - what does he do during that day then, other than his community service?! Drink 20 pints and gorge on Mars bars?!
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
He missed pre season most of it anyway and was only handed a couple of 10 mins here and there
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Its obvious that if NW thought he was fit enough he would play him more, so why is everyone constantly moaning that he is not played enough ?. The fact that he is not picking him regularly should be good enough for us, bearing in mind what NW has achieved so far. As for why he is not fit - he missed most of pre season, then had niggling injuries, then had his court case and appearances to worry about and now is doing community service every week. Its not surprising that he's not fit is it, with all that going on. Most of a players core fitness is down to what he puts in pre-season. They are trying to get him fit enough to play every week but it is a long process and difficult once the season has started. Trust in NW and give him a break.
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
I think he needs to start the next game. He's done more than enough to prove his value to the side. If he doesn't start he should be coming on sooner.
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Its obvious that if NW thought he was fit enough he would play him more, so why is everyone constantly moaning that he is not played enough ?. The fact that he is not picking him regularly should be good enough for us, bearing in mind what NW has achieved so far. As for why he is not fit - he missed most of pre season, then had niggling injuries, then had his court case and appearances to worry about and now is doing community service every week. Its not surprising that he's not fit is it, with all that going on. Most of a players core fitness is down to what he puts in pre-season. They are trying to get him fit enough to play every week but it is a long process and difficult once the season has started. Trust in NW and give him a break.
I quite agree.
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Its obvious that if NW thought he was fit enough he would play him more, so why is everyone constantly moaning that he is not played enough ?. The fact that he is not picking him regularly should be good enough for us, bearing in mind what NW has achieved so far. As for why he is not fit - he missed most of pre season, then had niggling injuries, then had his court case and appearances to worry about and now is doing community service every week. Its not surprising that he's not fit is it, with all that going on. Most of a players core fitness is down to what he puts in pre-season. They are trying to get him fit enough to play every week but it is a long process and difficult once the season has started. Trust in NW and give him a break.
I get the impression that NW thinks Tomlin will never have it in him to play the way NW wants his team to play, but that he thinks the alternative skills that he has to offer outweighs his lack of athletic ability against some teams. So Lee will play when we are short or when the team needs a skilled locksmith to open up a packed defence later in a game.
As we saw against Hull in the first half, when the other side is fresh Lee could barely get close to the ball. I'd put his wayward passing in that period down to lack of match fitness but he did himself no favours when he was unable to even play a simple ball through, given that is meant to be his key skill.
Right now I do not think anyone can question NW's tactics, except with the benefit of hindsight, as he's got a bunch of players to a level that is far greater than the apparent sum of their parts. Long may he continue to keep making the right calls...
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobby Dandruff
And apologies if this has been asked and discussed already but.....I read recently that Colin said that Tomlin still isn't match fit, and so can't play a full 90 mins.
I know that he has had the court case hanging over him and is now doing his Community Service as a result, but is Tomlin carrying some long term injury which is preventing him from getting fully fit, as if that IS the case, he wouldn't be playing at all?
Colin made some reference to Tomlin's 'genes' (I suspect that he is unlucky enough to have to work on fitness far more than most, which must be a right pain) but why ISN'T he match fit? We have had him for a few months now, and he hasn't been playing, so how long does it take to become match fit?!
I can't wait to see him as a regular starter.
Can you please refrain from calling our wonderful manager Colin. Thanks in advance.
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobby Dandruff
And apologies if this has been asked and discussed already but.....I read recently that Colin said that Tomlin still isn't match fit, and so can't play a full 90 mins.
I know that he has had the court case hanging over him and is now doing his Community Service as a result, but is Tomlin carrying some long term injury which is preventing him from getting fully fit, as if that IS the case, he wouldn't be playing at all?
Colin made some reference to Tomlin's 'genes' (I suspect that he is unlucky enough to have to work on fitness far more than most, which must be a right pain) but why ISN'T he match fit? We have had him for a few months now, and he hasn't been playing, so how long does it take to become match fit?!
I can't wait to see him as a regular starter.
I get the feeling he's not a natural fit player and has to work harder than most to get to that level and as he gets older that may not change . He maybe gone if we go up .
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Auntie Andy
Can you please refrain from calling our wonderful manager Colin. Thanks in advance.
I agree wholeheartedly. It’s Colin Wanker. Some people hey. :shrug:
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Phill Stants brother
I agree wholeheartedly. It’s Colin Wanker. Some people hey. :shrug:
Classy :facepalm:
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Penarth Blues
I get the impression that NW thinks Tomlin will never have it in him to play the way NW wants his team to play, but that he thinks the alternative skills that he has to offer outweighs his lack of athletic ability against some teams. So Lee will play when we are short or when the team needs a skilled locksmith to open up a packed defence later in a game.
As we saw against Hull in the first half, when the other side is fresh Lee could barely get close to the ball. I'd put his wayward passing in that period down to lack of match fitness but he did himself no favours when he was unable to even play a simple ball through, given that is meant to be his key skill.
Right now I do not think anyone can question NW's tactics, except with the benefit of hindsight, as he's got a bunch of players to a level that is far greater than the apparent sum of their parts. Long may he continue to keep making the right calls...
Tarrabt didn't do a lot of running around but was qpr's best player imo Warnock bought Tomlin to fit that mould of player. the boy is class and we need to play him to our strength as the times he has played he's always made something happen, the goal against Ipswich was beautiful and because of his flick in the middle of the park
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jamieccfc
Tarrabt didn't do a lot of running around but was qpr's best player imo Warnock bought Tomlin to fit that mould of player. the boy is class and we need to play him to our strength as the times he has played he's always made something happen, the goal against Ipswich was beautiful and because of his flick in the middle of the park
I agree that Tomlin has the ability to make things happen. I was just commenting on the OP in terms of discussing why Tomlin doesn't play more.
If everyone is fit you could see a side with a back 4, Ralls and Gunnars, NML and Junior, Tomlin as CAM and Zohore/Bogle up front as being a really potent team.
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
I think he'll play a lot more in 2018
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jamieccfc
Tarrabt didn't do a lot of running around but was qpr's best player imo Warnock bought Tomlin to fit that mould of player. the boy is class and we need to play him to our strength as the times he has played he's always made something happen, the goal against Ipswich was beautiful and because of his flick in the middle of the park
Good point.
I'd be more than happy if he is anywhere near as effective as Tarrabt was during the season that QPR went up.
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobby Dandruff
Good point.
I'd be more than happy if he is anywhere near as effective as Tarrabt was during the season that QPR went up.
When England won the World Cup it was said that Ramsey had 10 men playing to Orders .....and one Bobby Charlton.
Maybe Tomlinson, Tarabat etc fit into that model?
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pontprennau Bluebird
When England won the World Cup it was said that Ramsey had 10 men playing to Orders .....and one Bobby Charlton.
Maybe Tomlinson, Tarabat etc fit into that model?
In every book and report I've read on the 1996 World Cup Final, I've read Bobby was told in no uncertain terms, to not leave the side of Beckenbauer !
thus taking 2 great players out of the match.
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
I thought it was the other way around and Beckenbauer was told to man-mark Charlton!
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Seabird
I thought it was the other way around and Beckenbauer was told to man-mark Charlton!
NOPE
That's why they threw the game in Mexico, 4 years later.
2-0 up and strolling, takes Charlton off, Beckenbauer took over the game.
Wallop 3-2, before you know it
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
I get the feeling he's not a natural fit player and has to work harder than most to get to that level and as he gets older that may not change . He maybe gone if we go up .
I get the feeling he's a fat bastard tbh, that pathetic "big ribs" comment...
He's a professional footballer, earning a professional footballers wage. Onus is on him to manage his weight and fitness, he's not a bloody child.
Nobody is saying he has to have the greatest cardio in the history of football but when the view of the staff of the club is that he can't at this point manage 90 minutes it's absolutely pathetic.
All I hear is excuse after excuse... oh community service. That stops him using an exercise bike after finishing the service? If you've got the drive to want to play 90 minutes each and every game, then you work your bollocks off to achieve it.
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ccfc_is_my_life
I get the feeling he's a fat bastard tbh, that pathetic "big ribs" comment...
He's a professional footballer, earning a professional footballers wage. Onus is on him to manage his weight and fitness, he's not a bloody child.
Nobody is saying he has to have the greatest cardio in the history of football but when the view of the staff of the club is that he can't at this point manage 90 minutes it's absolutely pathetic.
All I hear is excuse after excuse... oh community service. That stops him using an exercise bike after finishing the service? If you've got the drive to want to play 90 minutes each and every game, then you work your bollocks off to achieve it.
Go tell the other office boys to stop picking on you mate, go have a 10 minute sit down onbthe bogs and calm down.. walk and have a coffee..
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
Go tell the other office boys to stop picking on you mate, go have a 10 minute sit down onbthe bogs and calm down.. walk and have a coffee..
Playing the player not the ball, eh?
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ccfc_is_my_life
I get the feeling he's a fat bastard tbh, that pathetic "big ribs" comment...
He's a professional footballer, earning a professional footballers wage. Onus is on him to manage his weight and fitness, he's not a bloody child.
Nobody is saying he has to have the greatest cardio in the history of football but when the view of the staff of the club is that he can't at this point manage 90 minutes it's absolutely pathetic.
All I hear is excuse after excuse... oh community service. That stops him using an exercise bike after finishing the service? If you've got the drive to want to play 90 minutes each and every game, then you work your bollocks off to achieve it.
There is clearly this aspect to the whole saga surrounding Lee. The question is whether you accept that for the other things he brings? At present it is clear that NW is not sure that his positives outweigh his negatives for a full game.
What I would hope is not in doubt is that he brings a skill level to the side that no other player can manage and could be the key to us winning games against those sides which set up to stop us getting in behind them through the use of speed alone.
I'm pleased NW has him as an option for matches no matter how disappointing it is that he can't seem to get his fitness up to what is needed to play week in week out
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Penarth Blues
There is clearly this aspect to the whole saga surrounding Lee. The question is whether you accept that for the other things he brings? At present it is clear that NW is not sure that his positives outweigh his negatives for a full game.
What I would hope is not in doubt is that he brings a skill level to the side that no other player can manage and could be the key to us winning games against those sides which set up to stop us getting in behind them through the use of speed alone.
I'm pleased NW has him as an option for matches no matter how disappointing it is that he can't seem to get his fitness up to what is needed to play week in week out
I've absolutely zero doubt he has class, is able to turn a game at this level. He's one of the most skillful players we have. No argument on that score from me.
What I question is his professionalism. It's for me inexcusable that a professional footballer at this level midway through a season is as out of shape as Tomlin has clearly been.
Le Tissier was certainly never a world class athlete; didn't need to be but he played 90 minutes every week. He wasn't used as a bit part player.
A fully fit Tomlin playing off Zohore, My god, even Wolvesalona would drool over the prospect. Yes, Zohore is out injured but even if he wasn't, it doesn't look as if 90 minutes of Zohore and Tomlin together would be anywhere near close to happening. I want players ( injury, form excluded ) capable of playing each and every game if needed.
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ccfc_is_my_life
Playing the player not the ball, eh?
Reading your poat I think you know I replied to the post not the poster.
What makes u say that anyway? Last interaction I had with you was Saturday talking about mls and that Carl fella..
No picky choosy now eh pal..
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
Reading your poat I think you know I replied to the post not the poster.
What makes u say that anyway? Last interaction I had with you was Saturday talking about mls and that Carl fella..
No picky choosy now eh pal..
I'm glad you've been imbibing the Christmas spirit.
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ccfc_is_my_life
I've absolutely zero doubt he has class, is able to turn a game at this level. He's one of the most skillful players we have. No argument on that score from me.
What I question is his professionalism. It's for me inexcusable that a professional footballer at this level midway through a season is as out of shape as Tomlin has clearly been.
Le Tissier was certainly never a world class athlete; didn't need to be but he played 90 minutes every week. He wasn't used as a bit part player.
A fully fit Tomlin playing off Zohore, My god, even Wolvesalona would drool over the prospect. Yes, Zohore is out injured but even if he wasn't, it doesn't look as if 90 minutes of Zohore and Tomlin together would be anywhere near close to happening. I want players ( injury, form excluded ) capable of playing each and every game if needed.
I'm not sure Lee is out of shape, I just don't think he's in the physical shape that NW wants in his players. He's clearly not an athlete and never will be, but he's capable of playing football of the kind that Le Tissier and Whitts have played their whole careers.
It was clear when NW no longer valued Whitts contributions that he didn't want this type of player in his first team, but him offering Whitts an extension showed that he did understand what he could bring in certain situations. Lee is the Whitts replacement basically.
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ccfc_is_my_life
I'm glad you've been imbibing the Christmas spirit.
Had a fiery intro to the place. I'm myself now.
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Fair enough he's not match fit but he should be physically fit. Built more like a Sunday league pub footballer. No excuse. Needs to be more professional. Gets paid enough.
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Penarth Blues
I'm not sure Lee is out of shape, I just don't think he's in the physical shape that NW wants in his players. He's clearly not an athlete and never will be, but he's capable of playing football of the kind that Le Tissier and Whitts have played their whole careers.
It was clear when NW no longer valued Whitts contributions that he didn't want this type of player in his first team, but him offering Whitts an extension showed that he did understand what he could bring in certain situations. Lee is the Whitts replacement basically.
Whitts was on the decline though; not a number 10 nor a ball winning central midfielder, essential to Warnock's formations. Tomlin was bought to be an integral part of the side, number 10 providing that creative spark.
Tomlin hasn't featured for most of the season, playing minor cameos. Don't get me wrong, I fully agree he's capable of changing games for us. What I'm saying is that right now, he's not able to routinely play 90 minutes and for me that's on the player. Nice turn, nice run then gasping for breath.
Tomlin in the past referred to having "big ribs". We've heard his head was all over the place with the court case, community service etc - the reality is it's coming up to halfway through the season and he still does not appear to be physically capable of playing 90 minutes on a regular basis. I've zero doubt his fitness/match fitness is the number one issue behind that. Again, if you're a professional footballer then you can have one of two attitudes; either expect the club to sort your fitness out or work your bollocks off to improve your cardio to get near where it needs to be.
Yes, Tomlin can change a game in an instant even with 15 minute cameos. My point is why should we expect someone with his skill to be on the bench? He would have far, far more impact playing most games for the full 90. The fact he cannot do so, for me, is all on him.
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ccfc_is_my_life
Whitts was on the decline though; not a number 10 nor a ball winning central midfielder, essential to Warnock's formations. Tomlin was bought to be an integral part of the side, number 10 providing that creative spark.
Tomlin hasn't featured for most of the season, playing minor cameos. Don't get me wrong, I fully agree he's capable of changing games for us. What I'm saying is that right now, he's not able to routinely play 90 minutes and for me that's on the player. Nice turn, nice run then gasping for breath.
Tomlin in the past referred to having "big ribs". We've heard his head was all over the place with the court case, community service etc - the reality is it's coming up to halfway through the season and he still does not appear to be physically capable of playing 90 minutes on a regular basis. I've zero doubt his fitness/match fitness is the number one issue behind that. Again, if you're a professional footballer then you can have one of two attitudes; either expect the club to sort your fitness out or work your bollocks off to improve your cardio to get near where it needs to be.
Yes, Tomlin can change a game in an instant even with 15 minute cameos. My point is why should we expect someone with his skill to be on the bench? He would have far, far more impact playing most games for the full 90. The fact he cannot do so, for me, is all on him.
To be fair if he was always fit and had the attitude and desire to play at the top do you think he would be playing for us?
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jamieccfc
To be fair if he was always fit and had the attitude and desire to play at the top do you think he would be playing for us?
Why not? Having all three of those qualities doesn't in itself mean you rise to the top.
There are things entirely within Tomlin's control - his cardio being one of those things. We have an entire squad of players willing to run all game for Warnock. Tomlin is a player with great skill, having to be used in cameos due to being unable to play a full game at this point, midway through a season. Why should fans accept that and more importantly why should the player himself accept that?
If Tomlin can give more than 10 minute bursts then Zohore and he will boss this league easily.
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Tomlins style of play isn't built on running down defenders and chasing the ball back into midfield the way Warnock likes his players to.
He's there to flick on balls like he did for Bogle against Ipswich.
If we can't afford that luxury in the team then he doesn't play.
But people expecting him to all of a sudden run around with the energy of No Farah are likely to be disappointed.
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Nobody is saying he should be running marathons.
People have the reasonable expectation that Tomlin shouldn't be knackered after a single burst which is what's been happening.
Warnock himself acknowledges it's an issue.
"But if you get a fit Lee Tomlin, he’d get in any team in the country, let alone in the Championship. But we don’t have that. We have a player who either starts and plays an hour, or we bring him on for half an hour, usually."
I doubt Warnock expects him to run marathons like Mo Farah - but he's said Tomlin hasn't been fit for the role he wants him to play in the side.
We need that number 10 able to provide something different as teams will start to park the bus. We need Tomlin match fit during / post Christmas to be able to ply 90 minutes, not the odd cameo here and there.
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
Usually gets 10 minutes.
Only got a start as he's been forced to play..and when he did he put in the effort until he left the pitch.
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Re: Lee Tomlin question....
And why does he usually get 10 minutes? That's the question.
Nobody has questioned his effort when on the pitch. The issue has been he's getting blown up as his cardio isn't where it needs to be.
Warnock would love, love, love Tomlin putting in 90 minutes each and every game.