Strikers from the Academy

Over the years I can think of several full backs and midfielders that have come from our academy and been reasonably or very successful. I can think of hardly any goalkeepers, wingers or strikers though. In particular since the days of Toshack and Showers when did we produce our own striker? One who has scored for us or at another club. The only one I can think of ironically was the Irish chap who was a goalkeeper turned striker... Josh Maggenis. Surely there are others. If not why not?
Is there another club in the country with such a poor record in this?

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Originally Posted by HaveringBluebird

Over the years I can think of several full backs and midfielders that have come from our academy and been reasonably or very successful. I can think of hardly any goalkeepers, wingers or strikers though. In particular since the days of Toshack and Showers when did we produce our own striker? One who has scored for us or at another club. The only one I can think of ironically was the Irish chap who was a goalkeeper turned striker... Josh Maggenis. Surely there are others. If not why not?
Is there another club in the country with such a poor record in this?

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Robert Earnshaw did quite well...

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Originally Posted by Lord Dargavel

Robert Earnshaw did quite well...

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:hehe:

Simon Haworth

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Originally Posted by binman

Simon Haworth

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Blake?

Jerome?

The OP has a point about there appears a lot of defenders /midfielders in comparison to forwards in particular no 9's

We don’t play the type of football that lends itself to kids.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

The OP has a point about there appears a lot of defenders /midfielders in comparison to forwards in particular no 9's

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Yeah, but on a football pitch there are usually 4 defenders and 2/3 midfielders. There's only one number 9. Ergo, clubs will produced more defenders and midfielders.

Actually, thinking about it, how many good left backs has the club produced? Damon Searle is the only one I can think of.

How many goalkeepers? Mel Rees is the last one I can think of. There was John Roberts, he was not very good.

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Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

We don’t play the type of football that lends itself to kids.

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The OP mentioned elsewhere as well, so style of play doesn’t come into it.

Leon Jeanne.....

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Originally Posted by Monster munch

Leon Jeanne.....

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Produced at Arsenal and QPR. Not Cardiff.

Gethin Hill

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Originally Posted by Des Parrot

Gethin Hill

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Derek Showers, blimey

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Originally Posted by Allez Allez Allez

Blake?

Jerome?

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Blake came from Chelsea to complete his second year YTS with City, Jerome was bombed from somewhere i think and then teamed up with Paul Wilkinson? Earnie was one of the last Apprentices taken on for his year. None of them came through our system.

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Originally Posted by Allez Allez Allez

Produced at Arsenal and QPR. Not Cardiff.

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Not successful or a striker either

Christian Roberts and Stuart Fleetwood have had lower league careers

So having read the replies to my OP it seems that Simon Haworth is the only one I hadn't thought of. Earnie and a few others didn't really come up through an academy or equivalent. With respect Fleetwood and Roberts haven't been huge successes in the Football League.Goalkeepers we have produced seems to be an even worse situation. When you think of the many millions we have spent on developing footballers over the last thirty odd years the results in terms of keepers, strikers and even wingers to a lesser extent is dire.

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Originally Posted by HaveringBluebird

So having read the replies to my OP it seems that Simon Haworth is the only one I hadn't thought of. Earnie and a few others didn't really come up through an academy or equivalent. With respect Fleetwood and Roberts haven't been huge successes in the Football League.Goalkeepers we have produced seems to be an even worse situation. When you think of the many millions we have spent on developing footballers over the last thirty odd years the results in terms of keepers, strikers and even wingers to a lesser extent is dire.

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To argue that Earnshaw wasnt developed at Cardiff City makes a nonsense of the thread.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Blake came from Chelsea to complete his second year YTS with City, Jerome was bombed from somewhere i think and then teamed up with Paul Wilkinson? Earnie was one of the last Apprentices taken on for his year. None of them came through our system.

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Thats just semantics re Blake and Earnie. They still played youth football at Cardiff City.

Before the days of academys picking kids up when they are 7 and 8 a lot of boys went straight from playing under 14/16 for their boys club into a YTS.

.

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Originally Posted by Henry Hill

Thats just semantics re Blake and Earnie. They still played youth football at Cardiff City.

Before the days of academys picking kids up when they are 7 and 8 a lot of boys went straight from playing under 14/16 for their boys club into a YTS.

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OK and I'll accept Blake and Earnie but it still seems a poor show. Nathan joined us 30 years ago and Earnie 23 years ago. Maybe I exaggerated a little by saying nothing since Toshack but you have to agree it's not a good record. And the keepers record is worse.

Someone mentioned Cameron Jerome. We got him from Middlesbrough at 18 so I would say he couldn't be classed as part of a youth development programme.

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Originally Posted by HaveringBluebird

OK and I'll accept Blake and Earnie but it still seems a poor show. Nathan joined us 30 years ago and Earnie 23 years ago. Maybe I exaggerated a little by saying nothing since Toshack but you have to agree it's not a good record. And the keepers record is worse.

Someone mentioned Cameron Jerome. We got him from Middlesbrough at 18 so I would say he couldn't be classed as part of a youth development programme.

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Blake ended up at the club after leaving Chelsea after his first year for whatever reason, so he was going on 18 when he joined the club, ernie was the very last apprentice taken on for his year because the club thought he may be to small, Jerome had been bombed by Middlesbrough. We didn't have an academy during the Blake and eanie years and I'm not sure if we had one when Jerome came to the club. What there would've been was schoolboy level training that would've taken place three times per week. Decent schoolboys would've been fast tracked into the youth team.

None of the players I've mentioned came through the schoolboy system. When nathan blake turned up he was head and shoulders above anything at the club in his age range, intact, he was better than some of the first team. As for ernie, he couldn't have been coached anyway, he was doing exactly what he'd been doing previously for a junior side called GE Wales. Those three players were good enough anyway, boro developed Jerome and Chelsea developed blake, ernie did what he wanted

Didn't James Collins start off a as a striker or am I misremembering?

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Originally Posted by Heisenberg

Didn't James Collins start off a as a striker or am I misremembering?

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He did, and nathan Blake made his debut at Bristol rovers away, as a central defender if memory serves.

Jerome Earnie Collins Haworth Blake.

Josh Magennis - ticks a box for Goal keeper and Striker

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

He did, and nathan Blake made his debut at Bristol rovers away, as a central defender if memory serves.

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Left back, it was a good debut too. We were 1-0 up late on but lost 2-1, if my memory serves.

Blake did play centre back for us though, as well as in a back three and as a stand-in centre mid at Swansea once. All done with his usual nonchalance. I wonder how many games he would've played for us if Warnock had been in charge? My guess is one, hauled off after 60 minutes then sent out on loan.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Blake came from Chelsea to complete his second year YTS with City, Jerome was bombed from somewhere i think and then teamed up with Paul Wilkinson? Earnie was one of the last Apprentices taken on for his year. None of them came through our system.

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I think Jerome came in from Boro.

Strikers are a dying breed in youth football.

When I was a kid everyone wanted to be a number 9. Today you'll find very few kids who aspire to play in that position and if you ask most kids where they want to play now, they'll usually answer "CDM" or "CAM" (for those over 40 that's Central Defensive Midfielder and Central Attacking Midfielder.

There is also the situation where the role of the centre forward seems to change constantly every couple of years.

You see a player like Jordan Rhodes who was born to just score goals who currently finds it difficult to fit into today's game.

Would you call Roberto Firmino a striker in the old sense of the word? Yet he's probably considered the best around now.

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Originally Posted by thehumblegringo

Strikers are a dying breed in youth football.

When I was a kid everyone wanted to be a number 9. Today you'll find very few kids who aspire to play in that position and if you ask most kids where they want to play now, they'll usually answer "CDM" or "CAM" (for those over 40 that's Central Defensive Midfielder and Central Attacking Midfielder.

There is also the situation where the role of the centre forward seems to change constantly every couple of years.

You see a player like Jordan Rhodes who was born to just score goals who currently finds it difficult to fit into today's game.

Would you call Roberto Firmino a striker in the old sense of the word? Yet he's probably considered the best around now.

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I'm researching the 1970/71 season currently and was reminded a couple of days ago of John Parsons who played just over eighty games in a career which took him from us to Bournemouth and, finally, Newport. Despite an awful lot of those appearances being off the bench, he scored a more than respectable thirty goals in that time, but I always thought of him as someone who did little else but score goals. On the one hand, that sounds an idiotic view when you consider how much we'd pay now for a striker with a better than one in three scoring rate, but it applies even more today - your use of Jordan Rhodes is a good example because the latter half of his career has offered concrete proof that merely sticking the ball in the net is no longer enough in the modern game.

I'd say Sergio Aguero could be classed as an out and out striker, but he's had to adopt a more of a team ethic and up his work rate under Guardiola and the only one I can think of coming through as a young player at the top level now is Tammy Abraham.

This trend can be seen in action at the Academy where the two best strikers we have in my view (Dan Griffiths and Isaak Davies) have both played in wide positions for the under 18s on quite a few occasions - the last player at Academy level who was a goalscorer first and foremost was Eli Phipps who left us a few years ago for Colchester but never played a game for them and I'm struggling to think of another before him in all of the years the Academy has been going.

Cameron Jerome joined us at about the same time as our Academy started up (autumn 2004) and would have played no more than four or five matches at that level before he broke into the first team.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I'm researching the 1970/71 season currently and was reminded a couple of days ago of John Parsons who played just over eighty games in a career which took him from us to Bournemouth and, finally, Newport. Despite an awful lot of those appearances being off the bench, he scored a more than respectable thirty goals in that time, but I always thought of him as someone who did little else but score goals. On the one hand, that sounds an idiotic view when you consider how much we'd pay now for a striker with a better than one in three scoring rate, but it applies even more today - your use of Jordan Rhodes is a good example because the latter half of his career has offered concrete proof that merely sticking the ball in the net is no longer enough in the modern game.

I'd say Sergio Aguero could be classed as an out and out striker, but he's had to adopt a more of a team ethic and up his work rate under Guardiola and the only one I can think of coming through as a young player at the top level now is Tammy Abraham.

This trend can be seen in action at the Academy where the two best strikers we have in my view (Dan Griffiths and Isaak Davies) have both played in wide positions for the under 18s on quite a few occasions - the last player at Academy level who was a goalscorer first and foremost was Eli Phipps who left us a few years ago for Colchester but never played a game for them and I'm struggling to think of another before him in all of the years the Academy has been going.

Cameron Jerome joined us at about the same time as our Academy started up (autumn 2004) and would have played no more than four or five matches at that level before he broke into the first team.

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Aguero is a good illustration Bob. There is no doubt Guardiola didn't really fancy him when he first came due possibly to Aguero's single mindedness as a player.

Fortunately for Aguero he had the ability to adapt where others haven't.

If you look at our club we've already fallen behind the current trend when we look for a striker.

We are being linked to John Hartson type players who are not so mobile, don't score many goals but are like static lumps aka Madine and co however the recent trend requires a striker not only to provide a bit of focal point but also to be a bit of a false 9 if required.

Barcelona fans often bemoan that Suarez is holding the team back!

Even players like Higuain and Morata often look pedestrian to the demands of the modern game.

I think early specialisation of kids can be dangerous for this very reason. It will be harder for someone like Dan Griffiths to adapt now having played up top all his career when the requirements for a centre forward were so different.

I remember John Parsons. He played few 15 games for us (68-73) and scored 6 goals at a time when we were mainly old Division 1 (championship now). It was over a period of several years when we really did have top strikers. Regards striker being an "unpopular" position now, why don't we just call them goal scorers. There seems to be plenty in the premier though. Kane, Vardy, Aguerro, Rashford Inggs and Salah etc Are they just strikers? Don't know but they score goals!! Why can't we get a championship striker... ever!!

Thing is there's a reduced incentive to develope your own players when thanks to EPPP top clubs can come in and thieve your players for a pittance. This is exactly what happened with the one excellent striker our academy has produced in recent years, Rabbi Matondo

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Originally Posted by Cardiff Ultra

Thing is there's a reduced incentive to develope your own players when thanks to EPPP top clubs can come in and thieve your players for a pittance. This is exactly what happened with the one excellent striker our academy has produced in recent years, Rabbi Matondo

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Stuff like that really is a kick in the balls, there is no point as no doubt anyone with quality will be pinched. And pinched by a Man City type club who have the most cash and don’t even need him, didn’t they then sell him for 10 million? That cash should go to the club that developed him.

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Originally Posted by thehumblegringo

Aguero is a good illustration Bob. There is no doubt Guardiola didn't really fancy him when he first came due possibly to Aguero's single mindedness as a player.

Fortunately for Aguero he had the ability to adapt where others haven't.

If you look at our club we've already fallen behind the current trend when we look for a striker.

We are being linked to John Hartson type players who are not so mobile, don't score many goals but are like static lumps aka Madine and co however the recent trend requires a striker not only to provide a bit of focal point but also to be a bit of a false 9 if required.

Barcelona fans often bemoan that Suarez is holding the team back!

Even players like Higuain and Morata often look pedestrian to the demands of the modern game.

I think early specialisation of kids can be dangerous for this very reason. It will be harder for someone like Dan Griffiths to adapt now having played up top all his career when the requirements for a centre forward were so different.

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Interesting posts from you and TOBW here. It wasn't that long ago that everyone wanted an Owen, Fowler, Wright type player but the game's moved on now. We seemed to cotton onto this later than most as we brought in Miller, Earnie, Velikonja, Healey, Johnson, Maynard, Le Fondre, Macheda, Doyle and probably others I've forgotten for managers who didn't have a clue what to do with them.

In the cases of Griffiths and Davies there does seem to be some forward thinking, as TOBW suggests. Bellamy talked about having to work hard to get the two of them to play together, they were so used to playing up top on their own. Griffiths seemed to be the one who'd drop off more in that set up, he looked comfortable doing it too. Davies has the pace to play out wide and he's been effective when I've seen him there this season. One slight worry is that he seems to have lost his edge a bit when he does get in front of goal now (only 3 league goals this season), hopefully it's just a temporary blip. I guess that's the key issue, developing a player's all round game without taking away from the thing that made them stand out in the first place.