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Stabbings in Penygraig.
I see it's made the national news today - anyone use the shop where it happened?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52549770
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Not any longer, I now go to Asda for my custard .
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
This is another side effect of covid.
Obviously this woman has mental issues, and under normal circumstances would have been seen by a crisis team, but with health care focusing on covid, they are not seeing people such as this
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
This is supposition again, your opinion dressed as fact "Obviously"
I agree that she probably does have mental issiers but it isn't confirmed nor has any mention of her mental health been metioned in the news. She was in court in Cardiff today and remanded for Crown court and again no metion of her mental health.
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Not any longer, I now go to Asda for my custard .
Has somebody died??
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
This is supposition again, your opinion dressed as fact "Obviously"
I agree that she probably does have mental issiers but it isn't confirmed nor has any mention of her mental health been metioned in the news. She was in court in Cardiff today and remanded for Crown court and again no metion of her mental health.
Here's one of several news reports which states the murder accused spent five months in a mental health facility prior to being released six weeks ago.
Single mother, 29, who was released from mental health treatment before lockdown is charged with murder after church warden, 88, was stabbed to death in attack at Co-op in south Wales - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ath-Wales.html
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Organ Morgan.
Here's one of several news reports which states the murder accused spent five months in a mental health facility prior to being released six weeks ago.
Single mother, 29, who was released from mental health treatment before lockdown is charged with murder after church warden, 88, was stabbed to death in attack at Co-op in south Wales -
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ath-Wales.html
Not seen that before and not mentioned in other reports. Thanks!! :-) In that case it makes you wonder why shewas preleased as it was apparently before lockdown.
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Organ Morgan.
Here's one of several news reports which states the murder accused spent five months in a mental health facility prior to being released six weeks ago.
Single mother, 29, who was released from mental health treatment before lockdown is charged with murder after church warden, 88, was stabbed to death in attack at Co-op in south Wales -
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ath-Wales.html
If true so sad for every person involved
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Can i drop a 'Pun' into this thread or is Penygraig a bit close to home?
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Well if any section of the population is going to be adversely affected by things like government cuts and the corona virus , it's people with mental health problems
It's always been the same
For many years unwell people have been released early from hospital into the community with threadbare support and those in the community already dont get the support they need
She seems to have been suffering from some kind of psychosis , if the reports about her hearing voices are true
People with mental health problems are rarely a danger to others , they are more likely to be victims of assault and crime
It's clearly a terrible but thankfully rare incident but I am surprised that there are not more given the pressure the doctors and nurses are under to free up beds . People are always going to slip through the net with regards to mental health .
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Well if any section of the population is going to be adversely affected by things like government cuts and the corona virus , it's people with mental health problems
It's always been the same
For many years unwell people have been released early from hospital into the community with threadbare support and those in the community already dont get the support they need
She seems to have been suffering from some kind of psychosis , if the reports about her hearing voices are true
People with mental health problems are rarely a danger to others , they are more likely to be victims of assault and crime
It's clearly a terrible but thankfully rare incident but I am surprised that there are not more given the pressure the doctors and nurses are under to free up beds . People are always going to slip through the net with regards to mental health .
Problem is that people in her situation are difficult to access at the moment, although you would have thought that local authorities would've drawn up some kind of critical list for those people who were most at risk of causing harm to themselves or others. It's the same with kids on the 'At Risk' register, social services and support workers cant access these kids and they're not in school where they can be monitored to a certain degree. There will be secondary groups who suffer due to this virus and it'll be those people in the poorest areas and the most vulnerable who rely on services as their support network.
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
Problem is that people in her situation are difficult to access at the moment, although you would have thought that local authorities would've drawn up some kind of critical list for those people who were most at risk of causing harm to themselves or others. It's the same with kids on the 'At Risk' register, social services and support workers cant access these kids and they're not in school where they can be monitored to a certain degree. There will be secondary groups who suffer due to this virus and it'll be those people in the poorest areas and the most vulnerable who rely on services as their support network.
Understand what you say but I don't get that last bit. Shirley these are the poeple that the care workers would be most concerned about and the ones who they would still check even if they were working less hours.
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
[/COLOR]
Understand what you say but I don't get that last bit. Shirley these are the poeple that the care workers would be most concerned about and the ones who they would still check even if they were working less hours.
For the last ten years social services has seen huge cuts , they were a threadbare service before , now they simply dont have enough people to cope , even with those at risk
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
[/COLOR]
Understand what you say but I don't get that last bit. Shirley these are the poeple that the care workers would be most concerned about and the ones who they would still check even if they were working less hours.
They can't check them as they're not allowed to access the properties is what i'm led to believe. The authorities can access the through Face time and that sort of thing i believe but it isn't the same as face to face care. Some people with severe mental health problems have a support network through the local authority, everyday stuff that support workers help out with, taking medication and just having a chat. That low level monitoring system isn't really happening at the present time.
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
They can't check them as they're not allowed to access the properties is what i'm led to believe. The authorities can access the through Face time and that sort of thing i believe but it isn't the same as face to face care. Some people with severe mental health problems have a support network through the local authority, everyday stuff that support workers help out with, taking medication and just having a chat. That low level monitoring system isn't really happening at the present time.
It certainly isnt
The community mental health teams consisting of psychiatrists, psychologists , psychiatric nurses , occupational therapists which do a great job under severe pressure at the best of times are basically phoning up very ill and vulnerable people to check on them when they need intensive one on one support
People with mental health problems are suffering terribly yet we only hear about people getting their operations cancelled . For people with serious mental health problems the lack of support and contact is literally a matter of life and death .
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
It certainly isnt
The community mental health teams consisting of psychiatrists, psychologists , psychiatric nurses , occupational therapists which do a great job under severe pressure at the best of times are basically phoning up very ill and vulnerable people to check on them when they need intensive one on one support
People with mental health problems are suffering terribly yet we only hear about people getting their operations cancelled . For people with serious mental health problems the lack of support and contact is literally a matter of life and death .
Agree, we have a long way to go when it comes to Mental Health. It's all well and good having campaigns and celebrity awareness drives, but we need the services that can cope with the demand. I know people who have been in an awful state, plucked up the courage to seek medical help then are told that they have to wait 3-4 months before they can access counselling services.
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Overall crime rate down 28%, incidents of domestic violence up 3%. Have no idea what the suicide rate is since lockdown started but it's a fair bet to be higher than corresponding dates of prior years.
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Organ Morgan.
Overall crime rate down 28%, incidents of domestic violence up 3%. Have no idea what the suicide rate is since lockdown started but it's a fair bet to be higher than corresponding dates of prior years.
I reckon that we'll see a shitstorm of issues when this is over. The media wont report it as domestic violence and suicide just isn't sexy enough.
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Well if any section of the population is going to be adversely affected by things like government cuts and the corona virus , it's people with mental health problems
It's always been the same
For many years unwell people have been released early from hospital into the community with threadbare support and those in the community already dont get the support they need
She seems to have been suffering from some kind of psychosis , if the reports about her hearing voices are true
People with mental health problems are rarely a danger to others , they are more likely to be victims of assault and crime
It's clearly a terrible but thankfully rare incident but I am surprised that there are not more given the pressure the doctors and nurses are under to free up beds . People are always going to slip through the net with regards to mental health .
Always the systems fault with you, Sludge but now excusing murder is beggars belief.
How about some of these junkie wrong uns take responsibility for their own actions for a change.
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
Always the systems fault with you, Sludge but now excusing murder is beggars belief.
How about some of these junkie wrong uns take responsibility for their own actions for a change.
If someone has a severe mental illness and hears voices then they are ill and if she is assessed by two psychiatrists as having a severe mental illness she wont be on trial for murder , because under the law , it wont be murder , it will be manslaughter .......is that clear enough for you ?
The care system for those with mental illness is shocking and it is the systems fault , full stop .
If this woman was a junkie , and there is no suggestion she is at present , unless you know different .....please do share , then that will be taken into consideration by the courts as she may have a drug induced psychosis .
But psychosis can happen to anyone , at anytime , even you and it's far more likely that shes battled paranoid schizophrenia for some time and it's got nothing to do with drugs . It may well be that her anti psychotic medication , administered by injection if its clozapine for severe illness, was not administered due to lack of staff , which is down to lack of resources , so it's very much a system and funding problem .
Asking seriously ill mental health patients to take responsibility for their lives is like asking a woman with breast cancer to sort herself out and stop moaning
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
If someone has a severe mental illness and hears voices then they are ill and if she is assessed by two psychiatrists as having a severe mental illness she wont be on trial for murder , because under the law , it wont be murder , it will be manslaughter .......is that clear enough for you ?
The care system for those with mental illness is shocking and it is the systems fault , full stop .
If this woman was a junkie , and there is no suggestion she is at present , unless you know different .....please do share , then that will be taken into consideration by the courts as she may have a drug induced psychosis .
But psychosis can happen to anyone , at anytime , even you and it's far more likely that shes battled paranoid schizophrenia for some time and it's got nothing to do with drugs . It may well be that her anti psychotic medication , administered by injection if its clozapine for severe illness, was not administered due to lack of staff , which is down to lack of resources , so it's very much a system and funding problem .
Asking seriously ill mental health patients to take responsibility for their lives is like asking a woman with breast cancer to sort herself out and stop moaning
Sludge how do you know so much about this woman's personal metal problems and her srug prescriptions? I thought that shit was medical in confidence?
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
The care system for mental health is appalling. I had experience with them for a family member over the last 5 or 6 years and when someone was seriously ill they didn't want to know, we had to fight tooth and nail to get that person in to hospital. Post hospital care was non existent. As soon as they can they shove them back out in to the community with little or no support.I accept the NHS is underfunded in every department , but with a so called focus on mental health the facilities are hopeless. And that was before this epidemic. Lord know what it must be like now?
As far one poster above I'd like your opinion in the future should you need support from this resource, and when everyone else calls you a junkie wrong un. Not all mental health patients have drug issues.
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cardiff55
The care system for mental health is appalling. I had experience with them for a family member over the last 5 or 6 years and when someone was seriously ill they didn't want to know, we had to fight tooth and nail to get that person in to hospital. Post hospital care was non existent. As soon as they can they shove them back out in to the community with little or no support.I accept the NHS is underfunded in every department , but with a so called focus on mental health the facilities are hopeless. And that was before this epidemic. Lord know what it must be like now?
As far one poster above I'd like your opinion in the future should you need support from this resource, and when everyone else calls you a junkie wrong un. Not all mental health patients have drug issues.
Whilst i grasp your point, not all people who do this kind of murderous thing have all these mental health issues. sometimes they are just bad people and sometimes a little bit of both.
But it seems today that there are no villains, they are all victims.
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cardiff55
The care system for mental health is appalling. I had experience with them for a family member over the last 5 or 6 years and when someone was seriously ill they didn't want to know, we had to fight tooth and nail to get that person in to hospital. Post hospital care was non existent. As soon as they can they shove them back out in to the community with little or no support.I accept the NHS is underfunded in every department , but with a so called focus on mental health the facilities are hopeless. And that was before this epidemic. Lord know what it must be like now?
As far one poster above I'd like your opinion in the future should you need support from this resource, and when everyone else calls you a junkie wrong un. Not all mental health patients have drug issues.
I’ve needed them and they were a waste of time. When I had a nervous breakdown and was suicidal they were hopeless.
Unlike Sludge and his ilk who take no responsibility for ones actions, always blaming the government or the system, I blame no one but myself for my recreational drug use and gambling addiction which led to mental health issues.
Too much molly coddling by the Sludges of this world telling wrong uns it’s not their fault is part of the problem.
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
If someone has a severe mental illness and hears voices then they are ill and if she is assessed by two psychiatrists as having a severe mental illness she wont be on trial for murder , because under the law , it wont be murder , it will be manslaughter .......is that clear enough for you ?
The care system for those with mental illness is shocking and it is the systems fault , full stop .
If this woman was a junkie , and there is no suggestion she is at present , unless you know different .....please do share , then that will be taken into consideration by the courts as she may have a drug induced psychosis .
But psychosis can happen to anyone , at anytime , even you and it's far more likely that shes battled paranoid schizophrenia for some time and it's got nothing to do with drugs . It may well be that her anti psychotic medication , administered by injection if its clozapine for severe illness, was not administered due to lack of staff , which is down to lack of resources , so it's very much a system and funding problem .
Asking seriously ill mental health patients to take responsibility for their lives is like asking a woman with breast cancer to sort herself out and stop moaning
There you go again making all the excuses for her behaviour.
You swear you are the only person on this forum who has suffered mental health issues ffs.
People will never learn to stand on their own two feet whilst we’ve got apologists like you making excuses for their criminal behaviour.
Let’s not forget the real victim in all this. An 88 year old man. I’d like to see you patronise his family with your no one is to blame, we are all victims diatribe.
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
Sludge how do you know so much about this woman's personal metal problems and her srug prescriptions? I thought that shit was medical in confidence?
Well I am taking the view that if she was an inpatient for mental health problems , she was seriously ill and if she was in for several months she would probably be suffering from psychosis and if that psychosis was treatment resistant, she would be on the big gun , clozapine , which is a last resort . She was an inpatient for 5 months , that means she had a serious mental health condition , something that you initially suggested was supposition . It clearly isnt . The police will always quite rightly arrest a person in such an awful incident but over time the authorities will work together and realise a manslaughter charge and plea is appropriate .
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
Whilst i grasp your point, not all people who do this kind of murderous thing have all these mental health issues. sometimes they are just bad people and sometimes a little bit of both.
But it seems today that there are no villains, they are all victims.
Do you think someone in good mental health would stab four people in a shop without apparent ulterior motive - e.g. robbing the place? If it turns out that it was pre-meditated then that's a different story.
As for the victim/villain angle, I don't excuse the act in any way, but if (big if) her mental health issues had not been addressed by the correct authorities then it just adds to the tragedy of it and one would wonder whether it could have been prevented.
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Heisenberg
Do you think someone in good mental health would stab four people in a shop without apparent ulterior motive - e.g. robbing the place? If it turns out that it was pre-meditated then that's a different story.
As for the victim/villain angle, I don't excuse the act in any way, but if (big if) her mental health issues had not been addressed by the correct authorities then it just adds to the tragedy of it and one would wonder whether it could have been prevented.
I think if you check you'll find people in places like London, Birmingham and other cities are stabbing people for no good reason almost daily. Like the young girl stabbed to death in as London park several moths ago for nothing.
The woman was carrying the knife in a public place for a purpose. That in itself proves premeditation. Should every person with mental heath issues be excused stabbing someone else to death? A recipe for carnage if you ask me.
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
I think if you check you'll find people in places like London, Birmingham and other cities are stabbing people for no good reason almost daily. Like the young girl stabbed to death in as London park several moths ago for nothing.
The woman was carrying the knife in a public place for a purpose. That in itself proves premeditation. Should every person with mental heath issues be excused stabbing someone else to death? A recipe for carnage if you ask me.
All the systems fault if you listen to Sludge
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
Always the systems fault with you, Sludge but now excusing murder is beggars belief.
How about some of these junkie wrong uns take responsibility for their own actions for a change.
You do know that people who are inflicted with a serious mental illness cannot act rationally. I don't know what your excuse is ? However, judging from the way you appear to be unable to empathise with those who suffer from serious illness , I'd suggest you have psychopathic tendencies yourself.
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
There you go again making all the excuses for her behaviour.
You swear you are the only person on this forum who has suffered mental health issues ffs.
People will never learn to stand on their own two feet whilst we’ve got apologists like you making excuses for their criminal behaviour.
Let’s not forget the real victim in all this. An 88 year old man. I’d like to see you patronise his family with your no one is to blame, we are all victims diatribe.
Dear oh dear , you are angry today
I know lots of people who have suffered mental health problems both on here and in my social circle .
It appears this woman has just been released from a psychiatric hospital and has been hearing voices , shes clearly unwell
You have no idea if this woman was an illegal drugs user , no idea at all
Do you think people can take responsibility for severe mental illness ? Illnesses that make them paranoid , afraid , suicidal and rarely but sometimes homicidal ?
Are you having a laugh ?
They need treatment like someone with cancer , kidney failure , heart disease , arthritis , dementia , etc
There are , at present two victims in this incident , the poor old 88 year old and his family and the young woman and her loved ones
Now if it transpires that this woman was shooting up heroin or had stopped taking her anti psychotic medication then shes likely to be up before the beak
But if the anti psychotic medication she was put on in hospital stopped working or she wasn't given the depot injection at the right time then shes unwell and will be tried as such .
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Heisenberg
Do you think someone in good mental health would stab four people in a shop without apparent ulterior motive - e.g. robbing the place? If it turns out that it was pre-meditated then that's a different story.
As for the victim/villain angle, I don't excuse the act in any way, but if (big if) her mental health issues had not been addressed by the correct authorities then it just adds to the tragedy of it and one would wonder whether it could have been prevented.
What about the two 16 year olds in London who just randomly chased and killed a passer by this week. Shall we excuse them too? They can’t have been same to do something like that. Must have been mental health. Must be the systems fault not theirs.
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Dear oh dear , you are angry today
I know lots of people who have suffered mental health problems both on here and in my social circle .
It appears this woman has just been released from a psychiatric hospital and has been hearing voices , shes clearly unwell
You have no idea if this woman was an illegal drugs user , no idea at all
Do you think people can take responsibility for severe mental illness ? Illnesses that make them paranoid , afraid , suicidal and rarely but sometimes homicidal ?
Are you having a laugh ?
They need treatment like someone with cancer , kidney failure , heart disease , arthritis , dementia , etc
There are , at present two victims in this incident , the poor old 88 year old and his family and the young woman and her loved ones
Now if it transpires that this woman was shooting up heroin or had stopped taking her anti psychotic medication then shes likely to be up before the beak
But if the anti psychotic medication she was put on in hospital stopped working or she wasn't given the depot injection at the right time then shes unwell and will be tried as such .
How do you know what I know?
And if she has severe mental illness as a result of taking drugs through choice then I have no sympathy. Learn to stand on your own two feet and beat your addictions and stop blaming everyone else.
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Not any longer, I now go to Asda for my custard .
What a strange, childish reply.
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
Should every person with mental heath issues be excused stabbing someone else to death? A recipe for carnage if you ask me.
I don't think anybody is excusing murder.
People who are ill, need treatment. I think that what you and JR fail to realise is that mental illness is as real as a physical illness.
Do you people think that paraplegics are scrounging off the state and that they should get off their lazy arses and do an honest days work ?
You boys are stuck in the 1950s .
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cardiff55
The care system for mental health is appalling. I had experience with them for a family member over the last 5 or 6 years and when someone was seriously ill they didn't want to know, we had to fight tooth and nail to get that person in to hospital. Post hospital care was non existent. As soon as they can they shove them back out in to the community with little or no support.I accept the NHS is underfunded in every department , but with a so called focus on mental health the facilities are hopeless. And that was before this epidemic. Lord know what it must be like now?
As far one poster above I'd like your opinion in the future should you need support from this resource, and when everyone else calls you a junkie wrong un. Not all mental health patients have drug issues.
Ain't that the truth , its dreadful
Cancer ? .......oh you poor thing , flowers cards , visits , follow up care
Mental health ? Crap services , it must be your fault , pull yourself together
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
I think if you check you'll find people in places like London, Birmingham and other cities are stabbing people for no good reason almost daily. Like the young girl stabbed to death in as London park several moths ago for nothing.
The woman was carrying the knife in a public place for a purpose. That in itself proves premeditation. Should every person with mental heath issues be excused stabbing someone else to death? A recipe for carnage if you ask me.
I literally said in my post I didn't excuse it... Are you reading what you want to read, xsnaggle?
In regards to the stabbings in the places that you've mentioned, you've said there was "no good reason" for them. That's completely different to no reason whatsoever. The specific one that led to the death of that young girl was gang related and a case of mistaken identity... That's not a good comparison to make to this situation, is it?
For any doubt you may have on my opinion, I think this lady in Penygraig commited a crime and needs to face the consequences. But there also needs to be focus on whether she was missed by the correct authorities that could have lead to this tragedy not occurring. I honestly don't see how you can argue with that.
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Divine Wright
I don't think anybody is excusing murder.
People who are ill, need treatment. I think that what you and JR fail to realise is that mental illness is as real as a physical illness.
Do you people think that paraplegics are scrounging off the state and that they should get off their lazy arses and do an honest days work ?
You boys are stuck in the 1950s .
Don’t patronise me on mental illness I’ve had my own battles with it and continue to, but I don’t use it as a blameless get out to excuse all sorts of behaviour like Sludge does.
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
Sludge how do you know so much about this woman's personal metal problems and her srug prescriptions? I thought that shit was medical in confidence?
He said 'If'
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Re: Stabbings in Penygraig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
Whilst i grasp your point, not all people who do this kind of murderous thing have all these mental health issues. sometimes they are just bad people and sometimes a little bit of both.
But it seems today that there are no villains, they are all victims.
That's very true but it's clear that this young woman had a severe mental illness , she had just been released from 5 months in hospital .......that's a long stay in a mental health facility