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Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
https://youtube.com/shorts/1CXMwu530...mnAQ3t6KA9ceJg
The banners and protestors from Unions to Politcal parties, are asked a simple question .
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
I have 2 refugees in my house right now
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
I have 2 refugees in my house right now
I have 3.
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Would you grow up in a Council House, take benefits from the state so that you can eat and keep warm. Go to school, send your kids to school, receive child benefit, use the NHS and then demonise and thrust hatred and contempt on the political ideology (Socialism) that saved your arse? That's as stupid a question as the one being asked by the bloke in the video.
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
While I can kind of see his point about the 'of I had the space' people. What does he expect someone who rents to be able to offer.
There is no legitimate point really being made, just another loudmouth on youtube
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
There will be plenty of people on that march who work in food banks and help less fortunate folk in lots of ways
And I bet if that fella showed us all his footage he would provide us with evidence of people prepared to help like they did with Ukraine
This sort of thing is hand made internet porn for the likes of life on mars
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
They looked like folks who could take in one or two had good jobs or retired folk on comfortable pensions with a spare room .
It' was a march about refugees and how we should consider thier needs so not a bad question to ask , they all seemed a bit phased by the approach , perhaps they just do gesture politics not meaningful gestures or (NIMBYS) or regular paid for demonstrators just with different banners ?
At least one of them could have offered up a room or offered to house them on a rotational basis with other banner waving fruit loops ?
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
They looked like folks who could take in one or two had good jobs or retired folk on comfortable pensions with a spare room .
It' was a march about refugees and how we should consider thier needs so not a bad question to ask , they all seemed a bit phased by the approach , perhaps they just do gesture politics not meaningful gestures or (NIMBYS) or regular paid for demonstrators just with different banners ?
At least one of them could have offered up a room or offered to house them on a rotational basis with other banner waving fruit loops ?
You have no idea if any offered rooms
The bloke who made the video does but he's not given us any idea and has just showed an interview with 3 or 4
What if 10000 people were on the march ?
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
They looked like folks who could take in one or two had good jobs or retired folk on comfortable pensions with a spare room .
It' was a march about refugees and how we should consider thier needs so not a bad question to ask , they all seemed a bit phased by the approach , perhaps they just do gesture politics not meaningful gestures or (NIMBYS) or regular paid for demonstrators just with different banners ?
At least one of them could have offered up a room or offered to house them on a rotational basis with other banner waving fruit loops ?
I look forward to you volunteering to fight for the IDS.
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
A few weeks ago I took part in a concert with a small choir made up of refugees. There was a strict "no filming" policy as some of the members of that choir needed protecting and an innocuous 'share' of a video could end up having massive repercussions.
Most of what they sang was simple songs they had written themselves, every song had a verse or chorus translated into Welsh, rather than English, to say thank you to Wales in a small way for letting them be in our country. This was important to them.
I heard one sing a verse and chorus of Calon Lan in Swahili. Beautiful.
I left feeling very humbled.
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
I look forward to you volunteering to fight for the IDS.
Is that Ian Duncan Smith's private army? The war on benefit claimants
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
Western Governments back wars that create refugees.
Maybe they can take them into their houses.
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
Would you grow up in a Council House, take benefits from the state so that you can eat and keep warm. Go to school, send your kids to school, receive child benefit, use the NHS and then demonise and thrust hatred and contempt on the political ideology (Socialism) that saved your arse? That's as stupid a question as the one being asked by the bloke in the video.
:thumbup:
I can't tell you how much I love this post. Why don't people understand?
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
Would you grow up in a Council House, take benefits from the state so that you can eat and keep warm. Go to school, send your kids to school, receive child benefit, use the NHS and then demonise and thrust hatred and contempt on the political ideology (Socialism) that saved your arse? That's as stupid a question as the one being asked by the bloke in the video.
Those things aren't socialism. All those things exist everywhere, to a greater or lesser extent.
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
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Originally Posted by
life on mars
Quite a humorous video. A little unfair perhaps, but I do think there's a bit of hypocrisy with it and a lot of people can afford to support certain causes knowing the negative impacts of such won't impact them. But no doubt thats not the case for all at the march, but I think it is for a lot of the "middle class left" who populate a significant portion of many marches and campaigns
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Those things aren't socialism. All those things exist everywhere, to a greater or lesser extent.
But those were only really introduced because of socialism.
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
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Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
But those were only really introduced because of socialism.
I think thats debatable tbh, although I don't doubt the huge positive changes that parts of socialist ideology bought about in the last couple of centuries in terms of welfare etc. But socialism and spending govt money on welfare aren't the same thing. If so then the UK is a deeply socialist country at the moment as we've never taxed and spent more.
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I think thats debatable tbh, although I don't doubt the huge positive changes that parts of socialist ideology bought about in the last couple of centuries in terms of welfare etc. But socialism and spending govt money on welfare aren't the same thing. If so then the UK is a deeply socialist country at the moment as we've never taxed and spent more.
Ooh, here we go.
NHS was brought about by socialism. I know that in the early 20th century miners would pay out of their wages to help support other miners, build fantastic buildings such as workingmen's halls etc. Socialism is nothing more than everybody contributing a little so everyone can benefit. It's about everyone pulling together as communities etc. Right wing mantra is everyone for themselves. The Conservatives would love to do this but the devastation that would be left is unthinkable.
Welfare has become a very different thing. Most people on welfare work. It's a subsidy for companies who pay crap wages. The living wage is shit.
We've had 13 years of Tories cutting taxes and spending and we're seeing more and more the disastrous consequences of it.
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Ooh, here we go.
NHS was brought about by socialism. I know that in the early 20th century miners would pay out of their wages to help support other miners, build fantastic buildings such as workingmen's halls etc. Socialism is nothing more than everybody contributing a little so everyone can benefit. It's about everyone pulling together as communities etc. Right wing mantra is everyone for themselves. The Conservatives would love to do this but the devastation that would be left is unthinkable.
Welfare has become a very different thing. Most people on welfare work. It's a subsidy for companies who pay crap wages. The living wage is shit.
We've had 13 years of Tories cutting taxes and spending and we're seeing more and more the disastrous consequences of it.
Think you've gone off topic there and saying the usual things people say about contemporary politics, which I don't think are really true, but that's another debate.
I was just saying, any govt spending money on schools, healthcare, housing, benefits etc is not an example of socialism. Every govt does it. Its an attribute of socialism, but socialism is also about how you produce the wealth. Capitalism can produce more wealth and spend more on those benefits, it doesn't make it a socialist system.
Anyway, I'm off to bed!
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chrisp_1927
Is that Ian Duncan Smith's private army? The war on benefit claimants
Very good :hehe: i meant IDF, if LOM is going down the literal route by showing that video, then according to his views he needs to be on the next plane over to Israel.
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Those things aren't socialism. All those things exist everywhere, to a greater or lesser extent.
As if by magic the empty vessel tory defender of the faith appears
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Quite a humorous video. A little unfair perhaps, but I do think there's a bit of hypocrisy with it and a lot of people can afford to support certain causes knowing the negative impacts of such won't impact them. But no doubt thats not the case for all at the march, but I think it is for a lot of the "middle class left" who populate a significant portion of many marches and campaigns
What marches have you been on recently to make that comment ?
The march against the English defence league in Cardiff a decade or so ago was a right old mix but certainly not white middle class
And certainly not all white either
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
As if by magic the empty vessel tory defender of the faith appears
Oh right. I didn't realise we were living in a socialist country at the moment!
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Oh right. I didn't realise we were living in a socialist country at the moment!
You can't help yourself
Imagine you on Question Time they would be running down from the audience to shut you up
Oh god tory boy is off again please put him in a box back stage
You are the capitalist version of Tony Benn , all guff and nonsense better left in library books
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Oh right. I didn't realise we were living in a socialist country at the moment!
We certainly aren't, mores the pity.
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
You can't help yourself
Imagine you on Question Time they would be running down from the audience to shut you up
Oh god tory boy is off again please put him in a box back stage
You are the capitalist version of Tony Benn , all guff and nonsense better left in library books
This is ironic coming from you.
Not all governments that provide education, housing or healthcare are socialist Sludge.
It's not hard to understand. It's a statement of fact.
Now stop shouting at me!
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
This is ironic coming from you.
Not all governments that provide education, housing or healthcare are socialist Sludge.
It's not hard to understand. It's a statement of fact.
Now stop shouting at me!
Stop your cobblers
The NHS was created by people of Liberal and Labour ideals
It certainly wasn't your bunch of snake oil salesmen
I am certain that when sunak says WE are the party of the nhs he's doing it to get on the front pages because apart from you no fegger believes him or them
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Stop your cobblers
The NHS was created by people of Liberal and Labour ideals
It certainly wasn't your bunch of snake oil salesmen
I am certain that when sunak says WE are the party of the nhs he's doing it to get on the front pages because apart from you no fegger believes him or them
As usual you view everything in as one-eyed fashion as possible.
But the fact remains. Just because a government spends money on healthcare or education etc it doesn't make it a socialist govt.
Despite your near endless moaning, the current govt is spending more on healthcare than any previous govt.
Does that mean we currently have a socialist govt?
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
As usual you view everything in as one-eyed fashion as possible.
But the fact remains. Just because a government spends money on healthcare or education etc it doesn't make it a socialist govt.
Despite your near endless moaning, the current govt is spending more on healthcare than any previous govt.
Does that mean we currently have a socialist govt?
No it means that the population is getting older , we are living longer and the population is increasing
This year on year , biggest spending nonsense is all a load of cobblers
Like the covid rescue plan the Tories don't spend because they care they spend at the minimum level to provide skeleton services because if they didn't there would be rioting in the streets
They are not spending because they are nice and kind and care
The Tories are only concerned with themselves
Old school one nation Tories who provided housing and healthcare for their workers were philanthropists
The typical tory since Thatcher wants everyone screwed into the ground and low taxation
But the right to complain about crap healthcare and services for the elderly .....which they have failed to fund
I hope you get absolutely leathered at the election and are out of power till my toes turn up it's the only way of ensuring a slight reduction on your thatcherite I done good nonsense on here
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
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Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
No it means that the population is getting older , we are living longer and the population is increasing
This year on year , biggest spending nonsense is all a load of cobblers
Like the covid rescue plan the Tories don't spend because they care they spend at the minimum level to provide skeleton services because if they didn't there would be rioting in the streets
They are not spending because they are nice and kind and care
The Tories are only concerned with themselves
Old school one nation Tories who provided housing and healthcare for their workers were philanthropists
The typical tory since Thatcher wants everyone screwed into the ground and low taxation
But the right to complain about crap healthcare and services for the elderly .....which they have failed to fund
I hope you get absolutely leathered at the election and are out of power till my toes turn up it's the only way of ensuring a slight reduction on your thatcherite I done good nonsense on here
So in summary..
Tories don't spend on public services - they are bad people.
Tories do spend on public services - they are bad people.
I think even you, perhaps in calmer moments will realise the massive weakness in your argument.
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
So in summary..
Tories don't spend on public services - they are bad people.
Tories do spend on public services - they are bad people.
I think even you, perhaps in calmer moments will realise the massive weakness in your argument.
That's correct
Utter t wats
If they didn't spend there would be a revolution but Evan as it is they still manage to be evil gits
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
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Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
That's correct
Utter t wats
If they didn't spend there would be a revolution but Evan as it is they still manage to be evil gits
Okay, gotcha!
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
Cutting through everything else said. James - you know yourself that this 'record spending' nonsense that is wheeled out constantly is lowest common denominator politics, especially when taking into account population demographics and most of all recently inflation. You need about one braincell to pair that with 'highest tax burden' to see what is really happening, socialism for the insanely/generationally wealthy and shit for everyone else.
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Okay, gotcha!
No you havnt
You are a tory
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
No you havnt
You are a tory
As I said Sludgey I'm just going to read all of your posts now imagining them as you shouting them into a half empty pint. It helps.
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
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Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
Cutting through everything else said. James - you know yourself that this 'record spending' nonsense that is wheeled out constantly is lowest common denominator politics, especially when taking into account population demographics and most of all recently inflation. You need about one braincell to pair that with 'highest tax burden' to see what is really happening, socialism for the insanely/generationally wealthy and shit for everyone else.
Not really. UK health spending was about £150bn pre covid. It's now well over £200bn. An increase of a third inil a few years. Completely unprecedented, and also unsustainable really
I don't see this 'socialism for the rich' argument. The top rate of tax is higher than it was
I also know numerous people in very normal jobs who would be completely ruined without furlough etc, so I don't see how that means theyve been treated like shit?
The reality is Covid Fkd our and every other countries economies, whilst also severely damaging social fabric, all at a time when public spending soared. None of that free stuff was really free.
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
As I said Sludgey I'm just going to read all of your posts now imagining them as you shouting them into a half empty pint. It helps.
Well know your place then
I don't dribble
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Not really. UK health spending was about £150bn pre covid. It's now well over £200bn. An increase of a third inil a few years. Completely unprecedented, and also unsustainable really
I don't see this 'socialism for the rich' argument. The top rate of tax is higher than it was
I also know numerous people in very normal jobs who would be completely ruined without furlough etc, so I don't see how that means theyve been treated like shit?
The reality is Covid Fkd our and every other countries economies, whilst also severely damaging social fabric, all at a time when public spending soared. None of that free stuff was really free.
You think the rich pay income tax? Let's start by not pitting working people against each other. I made it pretty clear who I was talking about.
Regarding the nhs, I don't think you are taking into account inflation since 2019. Obviously not an exact science but at a basic level something which cost 10£ in 2019 will now cost roughly 25% more. Then add in demographic changes and population growth and that astounding increase in funding looks a bit more like the minimum required to keep the service almost afloat.
Furlough is often leant upon as an example of how 'generous' the government is. It's silly really because unless the way wealth and income derived from investments is changed soon, the debt created by furlough will be paid for by the lower living standards of generations to come, which I don't think is a good thing.
At the time I felt like I was the only person on this board who was skeptical as to whether furlough to the level it was provided was a good use of public funds, despite the near worldwide consensus, I still remain skeptical today. Furlough was primarily an effort to pause BAU until the economy could 'reopen' not to help people pay their bills, that was abundantly clear when the level of support was compared to UC.
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I don't see this 'socialism for the rich' argument. The top rate of tax is higher than it was
Headline tax rates are only one part of the picture. It doesn't reflect the reality. The very rich manage to pay very little tax - although they do pay out big fees to their accountants!
https://academic.oup.com/oxrep/article/39/3/406/7245704
On top of that you have a benefits system that provides public subsidies to employers for low wages, and landlords for high rents.
Then you have a history of privatisations that takes assets from the public to enrich a layer of shareholders (OK - pension funds too, but....) where profits are privatised and losses are socialised.
And a history of public funding for infrastructure and skills (especially in the health and engineering sectors) that provide massive public subsidies for private profit - made worse by recent examples of public contracts (not just the NHS through Covid) going to overseas multinationals (paying for their dividends and executive salaries) or blue rosette mates on the make.
'Socialism for the rich' seems to be an apt description.
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Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Headline tax rates are only one part of the picture. It doesn't reflect the reality. The very rich manage to pay very little tax - although they do pay out big fees to their accountants!
https://academic.oup.com/oxrep/article/39/3/406/7245704
On top of that you have a benefits system that provides public subsidies to employers for low wages, and landlords for high rents.
Then you have a history of privatisations that takes assets from the public to enrich a layer of shareholders (OK - pension funds too, but....) where profits are privatised and losses are socialised.
And a history of public funding for infrastructure and skills (especially in the health and engineering sectors) that provide massive public subsidies for private profit - made worse by recent examples of public contracts (not just the NHS through Covid) going to overseas multinationals (paying for their dividends and executive salaries) or blue rosette mates on the make.
'Socialism for the rich' seems to be an apt description.
I wish I could pen a reposte to the evils of enforced capitalism in this style
But it takes brains
So I am back in the loft