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Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
Have we got no track because it travels at more than 20mph :hehe:
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
BLUETIT
Have we got no track because it travels at more than 20mph :hehe:
no, we are being conned out of billions of pounds that we are owed that we could spend on rail infrastructure
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
no, we are being conned out of billions of pounds that we are owed that we could spend on rail infrastructure
The report I seen on the news stated North Wales were having it :shrug:
Not that I’ve got any interest in the poxy rail service
Too expensive, never on time, dirty stock
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BLUETIT
The report I seen on the news stated North Wales were having it :shrug:
Not that I’ve got any interest in the poxy rail service
Too expensive, never on time, dirty stock
So you're complaining about how poor our rail service is but when offered a potential solution to get the funding we need to improve it you've no interest?
Great stuff.
Wales is owed about £5bn in consequential spending from HS2. The electrification of the north Wales line would cost about £1bn (if it happens), so what about the other £4bn? Scotland and Northern Ireland got their money, why shouldn't we?
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BLUETIT
The report I seen on the news stated North Wales were having it :shrug:
Not that I’ve got any interest in the poxy rail service
Too expensive, never on time, dirty stock
they mentioned North Wales as one of the potential recipients of the money they will "save" by not extending the HS2 to Manchester. there is no guarantee that any of the projects they mentioned they will get anything though - they were all examples of what it could be spent on.
and that isn't what this is about either. the government are still spending a LOT on the HS2 as far as Birmingham, and Wales aren't getting any of it
Scotland and Northern Ireland have been given a share of the money spent to spend on their own infrastructure, but they've designated the project as an England and Wales project, so we don't get any investment, despite not a single metre if track going anywhere near Wales.
people should be up in arms about this.
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
Welsh Government: Taxpayers 'let down' after Wales failed to spend £150m The money was lost by the government due to "poor account management" according to a Senedd Committee
https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2023-...end-it-in-time
The Welsh Government wasted £144m on M4 relief road - MORE than £80 million of Welsh taxpayer's money was spent on drawing up proposals for the scrapped M4 relief road, while £10.72 million was used to buy land where the road would have been built
https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/ne...ief-road-went/
Senedd: 36 more Welsh Parliament members could cost extra £18m per year
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-66807278
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
City123
So you're complaining about how poor our rail service is but when offered a potential solution to get the funding we need to improve it you've no interest?
Great stuff.
Wales is owed about £5bn in consequential spending from HS2. The electrification of the north Wales line would cost about £1bn (if it happens), so what about the other £4bn? Scotland and Northern Ireland got their money, why shouldn't we?
Maybe because they know the bunch of tossers we got running Wales would waste it
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
BLUETIT
Maybe because they know the bunch of tossers we got running Wales would waste it
do you know how much the bunch of tossers in Westminster have wasted on HS2?
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
do you know how much the bunch of tossers in Westminster have wasted on HS2?
Yes, they demolished one of the Inns we used to visit because of it !!!!
All for a couple of minutes
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BLUETIT
Yes, they demolished one of the Inns we used to visit because of it !!!!
All for a couple of minutes
why not give our tossers a fair crack if the whip then
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
why not give our tossers a fair crack if the whip then
Ya, I’d vote for whipping them :hehe:
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
BLUETIT
Yes, they demolished one of the Inns we used to visit because of it !!!!
All for a couple of minutes
Be careful what you may have started. From what I have read on here recently a couple of minutes extra journey time can get some people quite agitated!
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
Be careful what you may have started. From what I have read on here recently a couple of minutes extra journey time can get some people quite agitated!
No it f uck ing well can’t :hehe:
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
no, we are being conned out of billions of pounds that we are owed that we could spend on rail infrastructure
Drippy would use it to lower toilet heights in Wales or some other daft idea!
If you get a child that's useless with money, you stop giving it to them anymore.
Anyway, Wales finishes at Cardiff anyway why waste more money further west?
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
TWGL1
Sennedd deflection tactics, what daft blanket speed reductions?
It won't work we will never forget, and all that voted for it should be voted out, including RT and any other idiot that thought it was a good idea!
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
Drippy would use it to lower toilet heights in Wales or some other daft idea!
If you get a child that's useless with money, you stop giving it to them anymore.
Anyway, Wales finishes at Cardiff anyway why waste more money further west?
so you're happy that Wales isn't being allowed to get money that Scotland and Northern Ireland are getting?
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
TWGL1
Your point is? Governments waste money all the time. The issue at hand is that Wales is owed this money, it's a disgrace that we aren't getting it. Even the Welsh Tories are calling for Wales to get the money it is owed.
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
so you're happy that Wales isn't being allowed to get money that Scotland and Northern Ireland are getting?
Not really, but I can understand them not wanting to give it to be wasted on nonsense, like Rainbow trains or crawler trains, that get you there slower but hit fewer people on the tracks or whatever useless idea they would come up with.
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
Not really, but I can understand them not wanting to give it to be wasted on nonsense, like Rainbow trains or crawler trains, that get you there slower but hit fewer people on the tracks or whatever useless idea they would come up with.
grow up
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
City123
Your point is? Governments waste money all the time. The issue at hand is that Wales is owed this money, it's a disgrace that we aren't getting it. Even the Welsh Tories are calling for Wales to get the money it is owed.
Are they owed it?
If they give us any money it should be used to turn 20mph roads to 30mph roads, no one cares about trains to North Wales or Swansea.
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
grow up
:hehe:
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
they mentioned North Wales as one of the potential recipients of the money they will "save" by not extending the HS2 to Manchester. there is no guarantee that any of the projects they mentioned they will get anything though - they were all examples of what it could be spent on.
and that isn't what this is about either. the government are still spending a LOT on the HS2 as far as Birmingham, and Wales aren't getting any of it
Scotland and Northern Ireland have been given a share of the money spent to spend on their own infrastructure, but they've designated the project as an England and Wales project, so we don't get any investment, despite not a single metre if track going anywhere near Wales.
people should be up in arms about this.
The Cardiff Bay Barrage was Barnett funded....did any of the funds used for Cardiff Bay Barrage go to anywhere other than Cardiff?
What about the SSC or the Severn Bridge....which were both built to assist Wales, all Barnett funded.
Stop your whining, Wales does very well all things considered.
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
As usual the tories on here win gold in mental gymnastics.
A chance to get £5 billion to improve transport in Wales 'nah it'd be wasted'.
They then whinge wondering why public transport is bad.
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
HiVis
The Cardiff Bay Barrage was Barnett funded....did any of the funds used for Cardiff Bay Barrage go to anywhere other than Cardiff?
What about the SSC or the Severn Bridge....which were both built to assist Wales, all Barnett funded.
Stop your whining, Wales does very well all things considered.
Wales does not to very well all things considered - we get hardly any infrastructure spending compared to parts of England.
the Severn bridge wasn't Barnett funded as it was completed a long time before the Barnett formula was introduced.
the second Severn crossing wasn't either, it was privately funded with the operators then allowed to make a massive profit from the tolls to pay it off.
basically the people of Wales have ended up paying for it. an awful decision which I think should be investigated as it represented such poor value for the taxpayer, I'm sure there was some skulduggery going on there.
Cardiff bay barrage was built more than 20 years ago for about £200 million - that doesn't seem like a good reason for Wales to forgo billions of infrastructure spending today.
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
no, we are being conned out of billions of pounds that we are owed that we could spend on rail infrastructure
I don't think so. The Welsh Assembly contributed to their own downfall on this matter :
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...-ever-27837964
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
A Quiet Monkfish
....which is why there's a petition
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
....which is why there's a petition
So why not point the blame at them then , take your blinkers off
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
Wales isn't getting this money because, unlike Scotland, rail infrastructure spending isn't devolved to Cardiff Bay meaning there is no obligation on ministers in London to provide exactly equivalent funding to Wales as they are providing to projects in England. What is little known is that the reason rail infrastructure spending is not devolved is in large part because of a decision of the then Welsh Assembly Government nearly 20 years ago - a decision one academic calls the "biggest mistake the Welsh Government ever made".
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
TWGL1
Wales isn't getting this money because, unlike Scotland, rail infrastructure spending isn't devolved to Cardiff Bay meaning there is no obligation on ministers in London to provide exactly equivalent funding to Wales as they are providing to projects in England. What is little known is that the reason rail infrastructure spending is not devolved is in large part because of a decision of the then Welsh Assembly Government nearly 20 years ago - a decision one academic calls the "biggest mistake the Welsh Government ever made".
they are not OBLIGED to give Wales it's fair share of the money, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't decide to, hence the petition.
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
they are not OBLIGED to give Wales it's fair share of the money, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't decide to, hence the petition.
Probably because they know it will be wasted
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
they are not OBLIGED to give Wales it's fair share of the money, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't decide to, hence the petition.
Let's not forget Westminster's refusal for the Crown Estate in Wales to be devolved, depriving us of extra funding, but some would rather Westminster get everything and Wales be totally ruled by England.
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Let's not forget Westminster's refusal for the Crown Estate in Wales to be devolved, depriving us of extra funding, but some would rather Westminster get everything and Wales be totally ruled by England.
How would Wales generate its own income if devolved, I mean tourism is a good start but Drakeford has not exactly been generous in that particular industry?
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Let's not forget Westminster's refusal for the Crown Estate in Wales to be devolved, depriving us of extra funding, but some would rather Westminster get everything and Wales be totally ruled by England.
If the current tory lot are booted out , we get a decent moderate government and a vote to return power to Westminster is brought forward then I think I would prefer that than the shambles we have at the moment
I voted for the assembly but I wouldn't vote for it again I think they are all an embarrassment, right across the parties
There's a handful of representatives there that have had any shape on them but no more than that
Rodri Morgan ? Jesus christ , absolutely hopeless
Carwyn Jones had a bit of charisma but drakeford and the rest of the Tories and Plaid?
Adam Price ? Eluned Morgan ?
Hopeless
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
Doucas
As usual the tories on here win gold in mental gymnastics.
A chance to get £5 billion to improve transport in Wales 'nah it'd be wasted'.
They then whinge wondering why public transport is bad.
where is this £5bn figure come from?
you do realise that the funding for HS2 was to be borrowed and paid back over 50 years. You're talking about £100m per annum, not £5bn in one go.
and transport is a devolved matter.
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
Wales does not to very well all things considered - we get hardly any infrastructure spending compared to parts of England.
and we do well compared to other parts..
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
the Severn bridge wasn't Barnett funded as it was completed a long time before the Barnett formula was introduced.
yes, but it was the same pot back then, so you're talking semantics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
the second Severn crossing wasn't either, it was privately funded with the operators then allowed to make a massive profit from the tolls to pay it off.
no one made massive profits, and if I remember correctly, the tolls were paid coming into Wales, so it was money coming from England to Wales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
basically the people of Wales have ended up paying for it.
any evidence that only the people of Wales paid thetolls?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
an awful decision which I think should be investigated as it represented such poor value for the taxpayer, I'm sure there was some skulduggery going on there.
earlier you said it was privately funded, now you're saying it was poor value for the taxpayer. make your mind up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
Cardiff bay barrage was built more than 20 years ago for about £200 million - that doesn't seem like a good reason for Wales to forgo billions of infrastructure spending today.
but no one was complaining back then about Barnett consequences etc etc...
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Let's not forget Westminster's refusal for the Crown Estate in Wales to be devolved, depriving us of extra funding, but some would rather Westminster get everything and Wales be totally ruled by England.
why would the crown estate be devolved? There is no legal mechanism since the Crowns legal persona represents England and Wales, in the same way it represents Scotland too.
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
....which is why there's a petition
So nothing to do with Barnett, but all to do with the incompetence of Welsh Labour.
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
TWGL1
How would Wales generate its own income if devolved, I mean tourism is a good start but Drakeford has not exactly been generous in that particular industry?
The Crown estate in Scotland is devolved, meaning the profit it makes stays in Scotland. Ours heads back to England.
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Re: Wales HS2 funding Petition
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Originally Posted by
HiVis
why would the crown estate be devolved? There is no legal mechanism since the Crowns legal persona represents England and Wales, in the same way it represents Scotland too.
https://www.crownestatescotland.com/...ey-information it was devolved a few years ago, so Scottish profit stays in Scotland