BBC Wales programme about Emiliano Sala Mondat evening...

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footb...ather-16170586

Mirror making headlines of Sala family comments.

Here we go again....the old they abandoned him bollocks. How many times do we need to explain that Sala made it his OWN decision to stay later in France and travel LATE, in the dark with an un registered pilot. His bad choice, his shady agent arranged it. He’s a grown man ffs....if anything he should have called ccfc and explained what he was doing, get a dialogue going, and then you hope we could have said, don’t get on that plane it’s too late and the weather is bad....

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Originally Posted by goats

Here we go again....the old they abandoned him bollocks. How many times do we need to explain that Sala made it his OWN decision to stay later in France and travel LATE, in the dark with an un registered pilot. His bad choice, his shady agent arranged it. He’s a grown man ffs....if anything he should have called ccfc and explained what he was doing, get a dialogue going, and then you hope we could have said, don’t get on that plane it’s too late and the weather is bad....

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That's been my attitude all along - it was hardly as if City said he should find his one way over to France and back if he wanted to say goodbye to his old team mates and tie up loose ends in Nantes. However, playing Devil's Advocate to a degree, do we know what other teams would have done in that situation? Would they have just offered to pay for an airline flight like we did or would they have arranged something themselves rather than rely on an agent to do it? Would other Premier League and top end Championship clubs have done things differently to us?

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

That's been my attitude all along - it was hardly as if City said he should find his one way over to France and back if he wanted to say goodbye to his old team mates and tie up loose ends in Nantes. However, playing Devil's Advocate to a degree, do we know what other teams would have done in that situation? Would they have just offered to pay for an airline flight like we did or would they have arranged something themselves rather than rely on an agent to do it? Would other Premier League and top end Championship clubs have done things differently to us?

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Aircraft crash no matter who owns them, how good they are or what distance they are travelling. We witnessed the Leicester owner being killed in his own helicopter a few months before the Sala incident. So bringing Sala over in a private jet or a commercial flight doesn't negate the risk, although the risks are lowered considerably in comaprison.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

That's been my attitude all along - it was hardly as if City said he should find his one way over to France and back if he wanted to say goodbye to his old team mates and tie up loose ends in Nantes. However, playing Devil's Advocate to a degree, do we know what other teams would have done in that situation? Would they have just offered to pay for an airline flight like we did or would they have arranged something themselves rather than rely on an agent to do it? Would other Premier League and top end Championship clubs have done things differently to us?

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Good questions, Bob. I would have thought the whole point of having an agent is to manage things like this for the player so the club and player don't have to. Who paid for the ill-fated flight? The club offered to pay for a normal flight, so was the Ibbotson flight a cheaper option, or why was Sala persuaded to use it instead?

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Good questions, Bob. I would have thought the whole point of having an agent is to manage things like this for the player so the club and player don't have to. Who paid for the ill-fated flight? The club offered to pay for a normal flight, so was the Ibbotson flight a cheaper option, or why was Sala persuaded to use it instead?

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I hope they have fully researched the flight details, who the pilot was on the paperwork, was it switched if so why, I would like to know exactly what happened?

As I said in the other thread (:facepalm: why do they do it :facepalm:), I wonder if Vinny’s lawyers will be watching???

I would think his lawyers watch every single little thing.

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Originally Posted by goats

Here we go again....the old they abandoned him bollocks. How many times do we need to explain that Sala made it his OWN decision to stay later in France and travel LATE, in the dark with an un registered pilot. His bad choice, his shady agent arranged it. He’s a grown man ffs....if anything he should have called ccfc and explained what he was doing, get a dialogue going, and then you hope we could have said, don’t get on that plane it’s too late and the weather is bad....

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I think you're being incredibly harsh on Sala. Would you have been aware of the heightened risk associated with his travel plans before this incident took place? I would not have.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Good questions, Bob. I would have thought the whole point of having an agent is to manage things like this for the player so the club and player don't have to. Who paid for the ill-fated flight? The club offered to pay for a normal flight, so was the Ibbotson flight a cheaper option, or why was Sala persuaded to use it instead?

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Who actually is his agent? Why was t he with him like they often are when they actually sign papers? I’m sure a decent one, partic when getting paid a million or so for nothing really, would have been with him all the way, if just to make sure nothing can go wrong and contact the club if he would think things, such as the plane or weather, aren’t right.

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Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy

I think you're being incredibly harsh on Sala. Would you have been aware of the heightened risk associated with his travel plans before this incident took place? I would not have.

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Hence why maybe his agent should have been with him, or do bigger clubs simply fly them back in a private jet anyway? Ie not giving the modern day player the option to think almost, as let’s face it most have had so much done for them they probably don’t know how to sort anything out.

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Originally Posted by BLUETIT

As I said in the other thread (:facepalm: why do they do it :facepalm:), I wonder if Vinny’s lawyers will be watching???

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Good old bbc wales, light years behind in everything with regard to investigative journalism......anyth8ng to have a dig at ccfc no doubt.

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Originally Posted by goats

Good old bbc wales, light years behind in everything with regard to investigative journalism......anyth8ng to have a dig at ccfc no doubt.

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Yes I'm sure the BBC will point the finger at CCFC, not where we all know the blame lies.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

That's been my attitude all along - it was hardly as if City said he should find his one way over to France and back if he wanted to say goodbye to his old team mates and tie up loose ends in Nantes. However, playing Devil's Advocate to a degree, do we know what other teams would have done in that situation? Would they have just offered to pay for an airline flight like we did or would they have arranged something themselves rather than rely on an agent to do it? Would other Premier League and top end Championship clubs have done things differently to us?

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Without deflecting from the human tragedy involved, wouldn't you expect a business to insist on a £15m+ asset to be transported in a more reliable fashion?

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

That's been my attitude all along - .... However, playing Devil's Advocate to a degree, do we know what other teams would have done in that situation? Would they have just offered to pay for an airline flight like we did or would they have arranged something themselves rather than rely on an agent to do it? Would other Premier League and top end Championship clubs have done things differently to us?

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This has been my complaint about City's activity in the issue and I said so some months ago. Legally, I don't think Cardiff will be found liable but I asked at the time - if the passenger had been Mrs Dalman or Mrs Choo, wouldn't the club have been more interested in the flight arrangements? Who's plane? Is it a jet? Who's the pilot? Tragically, these questions weren't asked and, as TOBW suggests, that's down to the club's naivety and inexperience in managing expensive assets.

The BBC Wales 'report' sounds like a lazy hatchet job - with the months-old quote from Sala's father (a cry of pain and grief) providing all the online headlines from news agencies and papers - most of which cut and paste from each other - but thereby creating a bigger noise.

None of us know the full facts yet, but we probably do know most of them. With the benefit of hindsight it is easy to say Sala himself or the club should have done things differently or asked more questions. In general I think the club has behaved well, although I'm sure there has been some post tragedy rationalisation of events and filling in the timeline with things that were not clear at the time.

Sala signed for the club 'subject to international clearance' and a few other contract caveats. If the club's position is correct Sala had not completed his transfer at the time of the tragedy, and his flight was arranged by the agent (and his disqualified father) who were acting for Nantes, despite Cardiff offering a commercial flight. The direct flight offer from Willie and Mark McKay (passed on by Jack McKay) may have looked more attractive than a commercial flight via Paris, and the changes of planned departure time on the day made it more responsive as well - although a major factor in what happened. Cardiff City had someone lined up to meet Sala on arrival back in Cardiff but otherwise were not hands-on that day after their own flight offer was rejected.

Is that neglect of a human being to whom they had (or would soon have) a duty of care, or neglect of a valuable club (future) asset to be more cold blooded about it? I think the 'Sala was not yet our player' line is something that was not at play on the day of the tragedy - given a few more days all the contract issues would have been tied up. However, I can well understand that the club felt they had acted reasonably in the circumstances, were not responsible for what happened, and will be aggrieved by today's headlines.

Sala's own agent was not involved with the flight arrangements and probably not consulted by anyone.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

The BBC Wales 'report' sounds like a lazy hatchet job - with the months-old quote from Sala's father (a cry of pain and grief) providing all the online headlines from news agencies and papers - most of which cut and paste from each other - but thereby creating a bigger noise.

None of us know the full facts yet, but we probably do know most of them. With the benefit of hindsight it is easy to say Sala himself or the club should have done things differently or asked more questions. In general I think the club has behaved well, although I'm sure there has been some post tragedy rationalisation of events and filling in the timeline with things that were not clear at the time.

Sala signed for the club 'subject to international clearance' and a few other contract caveats. If the club's position is correct Sala had not completed his transfer at the time of the tragedy, and his flight was arranged by the agent (and his disqualified father) who were acting for Nantes, despite Cardiff offering a commercial flight. The direct flight offer from Willie and Mark McKay (passed on by Jack McKay) may have looked more attractive than a commercial flight via Paris, and the changes of planned departure time on the day made it more responsive as well - although a major factor in what happened. Cardiff City had someone lined up to meet Sala on arrival back in Cardiff but otherwise were not hands-on that day after their own flight offer was rejected.

Is that neglect of a human being to whom they had (or would soon have) a duty of care, or neglect of a valuable club (future) asset to be more cold blooded about it? I think the 'Sala was not yet our player' line is something that was not at play on the day of the tragedy - given a few more days all the contract issues would have been tied up. However, I can well understand that the club felt they had acted reasonably in the circumstances, were not responsible for what happened, and will be aggrieved by today's headlines.

Sala's own agent was not involved with the flight arrangements and probably not consulted by anyone.

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Why wasn’t he though? Seems so un professional when dealing with huge sums of cash

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Originally Posted by goats

Good old bbc wales, light years behind in everything with regard to investigative journalism......anyth8ng to have a dig at ccfc no doubt.

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At least the Daily Mail us not involved just the fans favourite Daily Mirror

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Originally Posted by life on mars

At least the Daily Mail us not involved just the fans favourite Daily Mirror

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The Mail is in there with the rest of them:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...cumentary.html

NewsNow has got the following all running the same story, based on the BBC Wales programme: Daily Mirror, Daily Mail, BBC, Wales Online, Irish Examiner, Daily Star, Somerset Live, Leeds Live, The Independent, Evening Standard, The Telegraph, South Wales Argus, ITV, and no doubt hundreds of other stablemates and cut/paste sites.

Oh well, what a waste of 30 mins. Wonder how much that waste of time cost the licence payer? No new info naturally, nothing the news 4 months ago didn’t cover. Clearly, the pilot should never have made that trip and willy is trying to distance himself from arranging it...

Clearly none of you have ever lost a son.
It was heartbreaking.

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Originally Posted by dandywarhol

Clearly none of you have ever lost a son.
It was heartbreaking.

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It was an excellent programme with genuine consideration given to his parents.

Wyre made one terrible mistake.

Early in the programme he stated that Emiliano was Killed. No he died. He was not killed.

One other comment.

The club would probably like to pay. But its in the insurers hands. The insurers will have told the club they have taken on the risk and they call the shots. This is obvious to me and its stupid to not highlight the fact.

Oh and.
The pilot was not qualified for the flight at night. Fact. But that's not Cardiffs fault. Many flights like this land safely due to good luck.

So tragic and it will haunt those Involved for years.

Neil and Ken were a superb ambassadors for the club and fans.

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Originally Posted by AlwaysAway2

It was an excellent programme with genuine consideration given to his parents.

Wyre made one terrible mistake.

Early in the programme he stated that Emiliano was Killed. No he died. He was not killed.

One other comment.

The club would probably like to pay. But its in the insurers hands. The insurers will have told the club they have taken on the risk and they call the shots. This is obvious to me and its stupid to not highlight the fact.

Oh and.
The pilot was not qualified for the flight at night. Fact. But that's not Cardiffs fault. Many flights like this land safely due to good luck.

So tragic and it will haunt those Involved for years.

Neil and Ken were a superb ambassadors for the club and fans.

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Yes he was killed. The plane crash killed him, what are you trying to argue?

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Originally Posted by dandywarhol

Clearly none of you have ever lost a son.
It was heartbreaking.

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It was a sad reminder again of this tragedy and the grief his family and friends are going through. I really think people should be more sensitive and respectful and perhaps nicer in the world.

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Originally Posted by dandywarhol

Clearly none of you have ever lost a son.
It was heartbreaking.

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I lost my son 13 days before Sala died. So I found the programme heartbreaking, and worrying that his Dad died recently too.

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Originally Posted by cardiff55

I lost my son 13 days before Sala died. So I found the programme heartbreaking, and worrying that his Dad died recently too.

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I'm sorry to hear that. I lost mine some time ago.

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Originally Posted by Cowbridge Blue

This has been my complaint about City's activity in the issue and I said so some months ago. Legally, I don't think Cardiff will be found liable but I asked at the time - if the passenger had been Mrs Dalman or Mrs Choo, wouldn't the club have been more interested in the flight arrangements? Who's plane? Is it a jet? Who's the pilot? Tragically, these questions weren't asked and, as TOBW suggests, that's down to the club's naivety and inexperience in managing expensive assets.

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Your comment is very disingenuous. If it had been one of the persons you mentioned then their husbands would have been responsible and would have ensured everything was OK just as you or I would with our loved-ones. The fact is it is normal practice for the player's agent to arrange these things plus the club offered to arrange perfectly adequate transport arrangements and the player chose to reject them, - - his decision, whether influenced by his agent or not.
It was Sala who wanted to get back really early to join the next day's training session, the club weren't insisting on it or they wouldn't have offered a later flight.
Add to this the assumption that he was not strictly yet CCFC's employee and I cannot see why people seem to think the club was in any way at fault, negligent or less than 100% diligent.

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Originally Posted by dandywarhol

I'm sorry to hear that. I lost mine some time ago.

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RIP your son. Look after yourself mate.

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Originally Posted by goats

Why wasn’t he though? Seems so un professional when dealing with huge sums of cash

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Maybe because the deal was "hijacked" by Willie McKay acting through his son`s company?

Maybe because Willie McKay was acting for Nantes FC even though that club knew/should have known that he was not allowed to do so under UEFA rules? Could they possibly have been persuaded to do so on the basis that they were promised a higher transfer fee than they might otherwise have got?

So are we saying that Nantes were happy to get WM in involved on the basis he would screw more money out of CCFC, and he arranged the flight on the basis he would charge Sala more than he would have paid?

So for the WM it's a win / win he's getting a bigger cut and getting money from Sala as well.

And Sala's agent is quiet because his brown paper bag is fatter as well?

Who was Sala's agent? I've never heard of anyone mentioned.