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Re: First quarter GDP - UK +0.3%, US +0.7%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
So when the next England manager comes in and says 'I will build a team to win the world cup', he should be judged a success because he got out of the group stages. They told us categorically they would do something and then they didn't manage it, if that isn't the definition of failure then maybe we don't speak the same language!
Pointing out a governments failures can lead to alot of tit for tat replies. I though the boom bust period was over in the noughties. Oops there's another failure.
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Re: First quarter GDP - UK +0.3%, US +0.7%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
So when the next England manager comes in and says 'I will build a team to win the world cup', he should be judged a success because he got out of the group stages. They told us categorically they would do something and then they didn't manage it, if that isn't the definition of failure then maybe we don't speak the same language!
i said getting the deficit down £100bn was hardly a failure. i didn't say they had achieved their forecasts.
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Re: First quarter GDP - UK +0.3%, US +0.7%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barry Dragon
Pointing out a governments failures can lead to alot of tit for tat replies. I though the boom bust period was over in the noughties. Oops there's another failure.
And the party political wand comes out.
It is hardly tit for tat, I didn't even raise the issue. Any politician that tells the electorate they will do something and then can't achieve it, has failed. People fail in their jobs every day, no one defends me when I miss a target or deadline, why are we so precious about politicians?
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Re: First quarter GDP - UK +0.3%, US +0.7%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
i said getting the deficit down £100bn was hardly a failure. i didn't say they had achieved their forecasts.
So is it a success?
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Re: First quarter GDP - UK +0.3%, US +0.7%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barry Dragon
Its one of many paths available. Lets be thankful they didn't implement it fully like Feedback wanted. It was austerity lite as worst. Cant compare what Greece has been forced to do by the EU to what we had.
We could of carried on spending the next generations tax receipts like we were and piled up the debt to encourage growth. But we have already spent the next generations tax receipts, can we allow ourselves to spend 2 generations of tax receipts before they are even paid? They call the tories greedy, but I think spending the next generations tax receipts so we can live a comfortable life and leaving them to pay is greedy.
That is what we are doing currently.
When someone borrows money to start a business, are they being greedy and hoping their kids eventually foot the bill or are they hoping that their idea is good enough to outperform interest rates?
A government can borrow money to invest. Austerity leaves us treading water and we have ended up in a situation where our 'growth' relies upon things that will eventually implode.
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Re: First quarter GDP - UK +0.3%, US +0.7%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
would you have expected the national debt to have fallen whilst we still had a deficit?
What deficit? Osborne pledged this would be eradicated by 2015. Oh!
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Re: First quarter GDP - UK +0.3%, US +0.7%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
So is it a success?
why does it have to be binary?
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Re: First quarter GDP - UK +0.3%, US +0.7%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pearcey3
What deficit? Osborne pledged this would be eradicated by 2015. Oh!
that's not really adding anything. Clearly the forecasts were overly optimistic and with the benefit of hindsight there should have been better stress testing.
However well the plan compared against forecast it is true to say that the deficit has been reduced by 2/3.
Depending on your politics will determine how you interpret that
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Re: First quarter GDP - UK +0.3%, US +0.7%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
that's not really adding anything. Clearly the forecasts were overly optimistic and with the benefit of hindsight there should have been better stress testing.
However well the plan compared against forecast it is true to say that the deficit has been reduced by 2/3.
Depending on your politics will determine how you interpret that
Its adding quite a lot actually. They won't have cleared the defecit by 2020 either so the national debt will keep rising and rising
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Re: First quarter GDP - UK +0.3%, US +0.7%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pearcey3
Its adding quite a lot actually. They won't have cleared the defecit by 2020 either so the national debt will keep rising and rising
It sure will. That is simple arithmetic. As long as the debt/GDP ratio keeps falling, then it doesn't really matter as the nation is earning more to cover the cost
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Re: First quarter GDP - UK +0.3%, US +0.7%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
It sure will. That is simple arithmetic. As long as the debt/GDP ratio keeps falling, then it doesn't really matter as the nation is earning more to cover the cost
It certainly doesn't help that the economy is slowing down.It will be interesting to see what the Q2 results are like at the back end of July
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Re: First quarter GDP - UK +0.3%, US +0.7%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pearcey3
What deficit? Osborne pledged this would be eradicated by 2015. Oh!
Yes, he was counting on huge and sustained economic growth (more tax receipts rolling in, less benefits paid out) to eliminate the deficit. It's something they have singularly failed to achieve. Instead they've cut it by two-thirds through spending cuts and stealth taxes.
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Re: First quarter GDP - UK +0.3%, US +0.7%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Organ Morgan.
Yes, he was counting on huge and sustained economic growth (more tax receipts rolling in, less benefits paid out) to eliminate the deficit. It's something they have singularly failed to achieve. Instead they've cut it by two-thirds through spending cuts and stealth taxes.
Yep but we are all in in together and its in the
national interest that we have strong and stable leadership.
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Re: First quarter GDP - UK +0.3%, US +0.7%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Organ Morgan.
Yes, he was counting on huge and sustained economic growth (more tax receipts rolling in, less benefits paid out) to eliminate the deficit. It's something they have singularly failed to achieve. Instead they've cut it by two-thirds through spending cuts and stealth taxes.
You aren't allowed to call it a failure, I think we should call it a partial success to save his feelings.
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Re: First quarter GDP - UK +0.3%, US +0.7%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
why does it have to be binary?
I am just curious as to what you call it when someone states a specific aim and then doesn't meet it.
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Re: First quarter GDP - UK +0.3%, US +0.7%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
I am just curious as to what you call it when someone states a specific aim and then doesn't meet it.
Again you are looking at this as being binary. The economics and politics if a nation is far more complicated than you suggest.
Was the deficit eliminated? No it wasn't and in that respect the policy failed. However it has reduced by 2/3 and when we look into the reasons why the policy failed, we see many factors, some of them external to the UK (e.g. the EU debt issue around 2012, the USA debt issue around 2013)
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Re: First quarter GDP - UK +0.3%, US +0.7%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
Again you are looking at this as being binary. The economics and politics if a nation is far more complicated than you suggest.
Was the deficit eliminated? No it wasn't and in that respect the policy failed. However it has reduced by 2/3 and when we look into the reasons why the policy failed, we see many factors, some of them external to the UK (e.g. the EU debt issue around 2012, the USA debt issue around 2013)
All true but the Tories didn't give Labour any benefit of doubt for the financial collapse in 2008 when there were clearly external factors at play which,in part,were beyond their control. So they can hard!y expect a sympathetic hearing in return
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Re: First quarter GDP - UK +0.3%, US +0.7%
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pearcey3
All true but the Tories didn't give Labour any benefit of doubt for the financial collapse in 2008 when there were clearly external factors at play which,in part,were beyond their control. So they can hard!y expect a sympathetic hearing in return
Labour were lax in regulating the banks. they have to be accountable or that. the general public wanted everything today and to pay for it tomorrow. Labour can't be held accountable for public greed or for the banks ruthlessness in exploiting that greed.