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Sadly, it's hard to see how it will ever end? The terrorists have no goal unlike previous groups do they??
Does all this stem from taking out saddam/invading Iraq?
I'd love to think there is a solution, just can't see it. What a world my kids are going to grow up in compared to me in the 70's and 80's. What a mess.
The old nostalgia glasses :thumbup:
https://www.statista.com/chart/4093/...pe-since-1970/
Positive news U.K. and the good news network. I recommend these sites for you and not the constant bad news media. You may concentrate more on everything that is good in the world then. Believe me there is loads of great news out thereQuote:
Originally Posted by goats
The fuel for such terrorists goes back centuries. http://www.britishempire.co.uk/maproom/mideast.htmQuote:
Originally Posted by goats
Fancy shoehorning Cartography into a thread like this. Have you been to all of those countries yet?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
I think what's gone on and decisions made by recent political leaders like Blair and bush have kickstarted this. Everyone has tried to take control of Afghanistan over 100's of years, nothing new there. They will never stop blowing themselves up now or leaving bombs, whatever decisions the current crop of politicians make. We are screwed.
Afghanistan was a no-win, But we ( the west ) had to do something, we know that al-qaeda had training camps set up ( you could drive to 3 in under 1 hour from the British Embassy ) and it had just became a Jihad training area ( and yes i know they still have them on the Afgan / Pakistan border ) just the same as Raqqa is now for IS
Iraq, Lets now forget Saddam was not stable, He invaded Kuwait, his treatment of the Kurds were shocking to say the least , while he was a loose cannon in the area, hindsight tell's us he also kept the country and natives under control
More recently, Libya, Now are we really to blame for this ? ? ? The Arab Spring uprising started and some people of Libya wanted to overthrow Gaddafi, Gaddafi was a dictator and the West simply do not like them, lets not forget NATO voted 10 - 0 on the help we gave the rebels, the west loves the idea of a democracy and so they should :thumbup: once again, hindsight shows us that Gaddafi kept the county under control
It is easy to blame it all on The west, maybe, just maybe, certain sectors of the Muslim world were always going to do what has happened, one thing I know is that they do not want to sit round a table and discuss it, so maybe we had no options
Yes we've got ourselves involved in Muslim countries, yes a twisted interpretation of Islam is at play, but I think the real issue is why British born men feel so disenfranchised and alienated from our society that they want to do us harm. What turns them to such extreme violence?
The Koran has been around for thousands of years, there has been conflict for thousands of years, why is it only relatively recently that such atrocities are happening?
So what do we do to make a better world? Pull up the draw bridge and gradually weed out the bad uns until we alright jack? Turn a blind eye to appalling regimes around the world? If not, impose sanctions rather than military intervention? I have no idea tbh but I do know that the start of the solution has to come from within the Islamic church. Quite how "we" contribute to that is beyond my limited intellect but we have to remain optimistic or in a way we have already lost.
The solution to the problem has always been within the Muslim community, when young men travel to Pakistan / Syria etc etc to " study " it seems that other members of the mosque / Muslim community really think they are studying, I watched a interview with a Mosque leader ( he wasnt the Imam though ) he looked surprised that members of his Mosque had got involved with IS, they had just gone to these countries to study :facepalm:Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gwapo
someone need to police the world thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by TH63
Attachment 1506
Here's an interesting take on how terrorism has changed and (possibly) how it should be dealt with:-Quote:
Originally Posted by goats
http://blogs.berkeley.edu/2017/05/24...est-terrorism/
Crazy ain't it. IRA killing scores every year..but NOW things are really bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by OurManFlint II
I'm not sure the Muslim community can sort this out. They just use Islam as a cover don't they? Good muslims despair if them too.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
Maybe they will have to change and do more who knows? A guy I knew in the docks turned to Islam in his 20's, I still see him now and again, he says such atrocities will never happen in Cardiff as "we'd take care if it" before it became an issue. I'd like to believe it to be true, not so sure now to be honest. Lots of jihadis seem to come from Cardiff, but as yet none have ever come back to terrorise here.
Let's hope it stays this way.
Some young muslims were handing out extremist leaflets outside the mosque in Butetown a while back, the imam and elder muslims told them to fack off, one of the older blokes told them that they've lived in peace and harmony here for many years and they didn't want these arseholes fecking it up for everyone.
:thumbup: a prime example of what can be done within their own community to stem radicalismQuote:
Originally Posted by ian gibson
IG.
Spedger
Exactly, they might come and try but they would be driven out, sorted (to put it mildly) and exposed. Cardiff has been a very multiracial city for a very long time, particularly the areas where Islam is very present like the docks, riverside, g town etc.....the black flags of Islamic state have been seen here in the past mind, not for a long time now I think. Like he told me years ago, they have nothing to do with Islam.Quote:
Originally Posted by ian gibson
Some welcome context with those stats. But the hysterical who have been whipped into a frenzy by wall-to-wall media coverage will continue to believe that more state intrusion into all our lives will provide more security to counter a relatively infinitesimal threat . Next stop (see France) will be a temporary state of emergency that becomes perpetual. Their powers involve banning any demonstrations at a whim and searching any home without a warrant.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueArmy 86
The difference with Afghanis is that they do their fighting in their own country, as they have for many generations and to be fair they are pretty good at it : Against Brits back a few centuries ago, against the Russians in the 70s and 80s; Yanks/NATO/UK and others allied In recent times. The clandestine attacks on western nations in western countries in recent times seem to have been orchestrated by muslims born or integrated in/into the countries they are attacking. They are doing this in the name of Islam and as far as I can see because they feel the west are giving their brethren a hard time in the middle east. From what I remember, they start point for terrorism was sympathy for Palestine for the Israelis taking over Arab lands. The PLO was born and Planes hijacked etc, targeting Israel and USA who supported Israel. IMO, the past 20 years plus it took a swing into Islam against non-believers or anyone who dared support armed conflict against Islamic nations/people. Of course my assumptions may be well off the mark.Quote:
Originally Posted by goats
Spedger
and that is the way it needs to be all over the county, it might be for a good % of it ( who knows, i admit i dont ) but as the interview i watched with a Mosque leader, he looked surprised that members of his Mosque had got involved with IS, they had just gone to this or that country to studyQuote:
Originally Posted by ian gibson
In reply to the clueless and classless comments from Corbyn, I ask the questions.
If terrorism in the West is as a result of Western foreign policies - which in Britain was initiated by Labour.
What are the excuses he can give for Islamic atrocities, extremism and terrorism around the world?
This has been going on since the time of Mohamed.
Look at the common denominator !
It's always been around and almost certainly always will.
Whilst the influences and combatants may change whilst you have social and economic drivers the problems will simmer away.
The delivery of the terror will undoubtedly change from the bomb and gun to a cyber base but the constant is the ordinary people will remain the target.
The reality is that the vast majority of us will not be harmed by it but most of us will be inconvenienced by the measures introduced to combat it.
Part and parcel of life but being British we will quietly grumble away it but do bugger all about it as Coronation Street is on and the kettle has just boiled.
Corbyn was right in some ways. I remember probably the biggest anti war demo ever seen some 2 million people marching against the invasion of Iraq after 9/11, Blair, the w@nker and bush still pressed on with it. We should have gone nowhere near Iraq or anywhere in the Middle East. Has history taught us nothing?? I read an article the other month about how many wars the USA has been involved in since ww2. Quite unbelievable.Quote:
Originally Posted by JDerrida
He isn't saying that though is he?Quote:
Originally Posted by JDerrida
He is simply saying foreign policy has led to the breakdown of whatever was barely holding these regions together which has allowed for the spread of these vile groups. In addition to this the bombing creates an ample supply of propaganda for IS and others to use during recruitment.
You would have to be dim, devious or desperate to be offended to interpret what he said any other way.