More than one way to skin a cat.

http://mauveandyellowarmy.net/

Thanks, a good read and an interesting perspective on things. A good point at the end about a "never say die" attitude and it also reminded me of a thought I had at the game about Etheridge's handling in what were pretty awful conditions for keeping.

The only difference I have with you is Feeney. He seemed lost to me yesterday, bit like Mason looked at times a couple of years back.

Will the form we displayed in our record breaking opening ever return?

Good summary, but why would anyone want to skin a cat?

Can we have less talk of skinning cats, you will set Sludge off. :biggrin:

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

Good summary, but why would anyone want to skin a cat?

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you can't eat the fur!!!

Three points , job done , fingernails bitten off

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

http://mauveandyellowarmy.net/

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Enjoyed that, especially the comments on Brentford's reserve-Development set up-Academies have failed in my opinion, they're not competitive enough. Young players need to play against seasoned professionals.

As for the 'Warnock way' let's be honest about it, it's pretty basic stuff, and in my opinion, not sustainable in the long term, which suggests why Warnock has had so many jobs, and to my knowledge, has never been touted by clubs at a higher level. What I will say, is that it's fun to watch, crude and basic at times, relying on pace, strength and awkwardness, although i'd say that this style appeals to the majority of football fans in the same way that a action movie does with film goers, plenty of inaccuracies and a basic plot line, although that in no way discredits what Warnock does, and how he does it-I really enjoy watching games at the moment.

On another note, I really did feel sorry for Bryson yesterday, he doesn't seem to be adapting particularly well to the 'Warnock Way' There were people around me being quite critical of him yesterday, which I thought was unfair. The majority of any possession he has the opportunity to pick up are second balls, with little time to play anything intricate. It's not his game, and he looked quite frustrated yesterday.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Enjoyed that, especially the comments on Brentford's reserve-Development set up-Academies have failed in my opinion, they're not competitive enough. Young players need to play against seasoned professionals.

As for the 'Warnock way' let's be honest about it, it's pretty basic stuff, and in my opinion, not sustainable in the long term, which suggests why Warnock has had so many jobs, and to my knowledge, has never been touted by clubs at a higher level. What I will say, is that it's fun to watch, crude and basic at times, relying on pace, strength and awkwardness, although i'd say that this style appeals to the majority of football fans in the same way that a action movie does with film goers, plenty of inaccuracies and a basic plot line, although that in no way discredits what Warnock does, and how he does it-I really enjoy watching games at the moment.

On another note, I really did feel sorry for Bryson yesterday, he doesn't seem to be adapting particularly well to the 'Warnock Way' There were people around me being quite critical of him yesterday, which I thought was unfair. The majority of any possession he has the opportunity to pick up are second balls, with little time to play anything intricate. It's not his game, and he looked quite frustrated yesterday.

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Gunnarsson is a perfect Warnock player , gets stuck in and we looked far more solid when he came on

If we get promoted I see Warnock taking a director of football job and tan looking elsewhere

Warnock likes it here though

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Enjoyed that, especially the comments on Brentford's reserve-Development set up-Academies have failed in my opinion, they're not competitive enough. Young players need to play against seasoned professionals.

As for the 'Warnock way' let's be honest about it, it's pretty basic stuff, and in my opinion, not sustainable in the long term, which suggests why Warnock has had so many jobs, and to my knowledge, has never been touted by clubs at a higher level. What I will say, is that it's fun to watch, crude and basic at times, relying on pace, strength and awkwardness, although i'd say that this style appeals to the majority of football fans in the same way that a action movie does with film goers, plenty of inaccuracies and a basic plot line, although that in no way discredits what Warnock does, and how he does it-I really enjoy watching games at the moment.

On another note, I really did feel sorry for Bryson yesterday, he doesn't seem to be adapting particularly well to the 'Warnock Way' There were people around me being quite critical of him yesterday, which I thought was unfair. The majority of any possession he has the opportunity to pick up are second balls, with little time to play anything intricate. It's not his game, and he looked quite frustrated yesterday.

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I think that's a great analogy about the action movie Tuerto. I don't wholly agree about the conclusion you draw about how sustainable "the Warnock Way" is. I'd say that it's limitations are found out in the Premier League, because you're right, for someone who has won as many promotions as he has done, there has been a complete lack of interest from "big" clubs in him (I know Chelsea came in for him once, but they were nowhere near the power they are now at that time).

It's been mentioned on here a few times that if Warnock were to get us promoted, he may decide to quit at the top so to speak because he often talks about his dislike of some of the elements of player behaviour in the Premier League - he comes across as a fan of the Championship, but not of the Premier League and maybe that could be down to an understanding on his part that his methods are not best suited to the top flight?

I know what you mean about Bryson. I thought he did some effective defensive work at times yesterday, but I was surprised when we signed him and Warnock talked him up so much because he has never particularly struck me as a Warnock type player - I was surprised that Gunnarsson played in front of Bryson when he came on yesterday, maybe it was down to a desire not to get Gunnar involved in the tackling side of the game for fear of aggravating his injury?

Tell the Chinese. Dogs are fair game as well. Not sure what they do with the fur but it might end up on a parka on Amazon.

Having said all that I would love Warnock to get us promoted and shove it up the premiership big boys with a real fighting till the last man attitude

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I think that's a great analogy about the action movie Tuerto. I don't wholly agree about the conclusion you draw about how sustainable "the Warnock Way" is. I'd say that it's limitations are found out in the Premier League, because you're right, for someone who has won as many promotions as he has done, there has been a complete lack of interest from "big" clubs in him (I know Chelsea came in for him once, but they were nowhere near the power they are now at that time).

It's been mentioned on here a few times that if Warnock were to get us promoted, he may decide to quit at the top so to speak because he often talks about his dislike of some of the elements of player behaviour in the Premier League - he comes across as a fan of the Championship, but not of the Premier League and maybe that could be down to an understanding on his part that his methods are not best suited to the top flight?

I know what you mean about Bryson. I thought he did some effective defensive work at times yesterday, but I was surprised when we signed him and Warnock talked him up so much because he has never particularly struck me as a Warnock type player - I was surprised that Gunnarsson played in front of Bryson when he came on yesterday, maybe it was down to a desire not to get Gunnar involved in the tackling side of the game for fear of aggravating his injury?

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Thanks Bob, By Sustainable, I meant in a progressive way-going up to the premier league and adapting, although, i'm not sure that really appeals to my footballing senses anymore! you're probably right about Gunnarsson, Warnock probably had the game down as won, and had one eye on the Barnsley game. I kept an eye on Bryson yesterday, and made comparisons with Damour, who didn't start the game too well, but slowly grew into the style, pace and tactics in a way that Bryson couldn't, and you could see the frustration in Bryson, Damour seems much more apt at adapting his game and dealing with what is happening, Bryson seems to get a bit lost and frustrated, that may be down to Bryson playing a certain role for Derby over the years, and Damour's exuberance towards his new challenge and surroundings, a bit like starting a new job and not complaining that you seem to have been handed the shit end of the stick. Another problem for Bryson can be Bamba's over enthusiastic distribution at times, he really does know how to play a googly into Bryson, and as evident, both men have had words out on the pitch. Sounds like i'm moaning, although i'm really enjoying it this season, Warnock was the perfect antidote after Slade and Trollope.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Gunnarsson is a perfect Warnock player , gets stuck in and we looked far more solid when he came on

If we get promoted I see Warnock taking a director of football job and tan looking elsewhere

Warnock likes it here though

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Funny,I see the best signing Warnock could make for us would be to advise Tan on his replacement while keeping his scouting contacts.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Gunnarsson is a perfect Warnock player , gets stuck in and we looked far more solid when he came on

If we get promoted I see Warnock taking a director of football job and tan looking elsewhere

Warnock likes it here though

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Agree, Gunnarsson has a bit more to his game though (in my opinion) I think that because he is quite physical and vocal, people see him as a bit of an enforcer. He has that in his game, but is also decent in the final third, I like to think of him as our 'Roy Keane'

Read this earlier.
Enjoyed it , but this attitude about modern football way and only good football being tippy tappy does my head in.

Warnocks team has pace and in Hoillet and Bennett 2 of the best natural footballers you'll see at this level.

I always go back to 'tempo' and that is what we more often than not show in abundance. We play at a fast pace and break quickly.

It's not kick and rush.

Yesterday we committed 4 players forward when Brentford's keeper or back 4 had the ball.

It was high risk as it left Bryson and Ralls exposed and they regularly walked through us.

However many many times we forced them into errors and created chances from that.

Brentford DID play some lovely stuff, but it was at the expense of their defending and they were hopeless at set pieces.

It was a thoroughly entertaining game.

Far far better than when we last had a manager who tried tippy tappy and hardly managed a shot on goal per game.

If we are going to change style to be like Brentford or Fulham we might have to accept a relegation and a few seasons in league 1 unless we've got another £100m to blow by replacing virtually all of our squad.

In the meantime I'm loving a hard working exciting side with some real pace and talent for the first time in years- and that includes Malkys time.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Agree, Gunnarsson has a bit more to his game though (in my opinion) I think that because he is quite physical and vocal, people see him as a bit of an enforcer. He has that in his game, but is also decent in the final third, I like to think of him as our 'Roy Keane'

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He makes some great runs from his holding position , into the box

He's class

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Originally Posted by Lawnmower

Read this earlier.
Enjoyed it , but this attitude about modern football way and only good football being tippy tappy does my head in.

Warnocks team has pace and in Hoillet and Bennett 2 of the best natural footballers you'll see at this level.

I always go back to 'tempo' and that is what we more often than not show in abundance. We play at a fast pace and break quickly.

It's not kick and rush.

Yesterday we committed 4 players forward when Brentford's keeper or back 4 had the ball.

It was high risk as it left Bryson and Ralls exposed and they regularly walked through us.

However many many times we forced them into errors and created chances from that.

Brentford DID play some lovely stuff, but it was at the expense of their defending and they were hopeless at set pieces.

It was a thoroughly entertaining game.

Far far better than when we last had a manager who tried tippy tappy and hardly managed a shot on goal per game.

If we are going to change style to be like Brentford or Fulham we might have to accept a relegation and a few seasons in league 1 unless we've got another £100m to blow by replacing virtually all of our squad.

In the meantime I'm loving a hard working exciting side with some real pace and talent for the first time in years- and that includes Malkys time.

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Warnock is the best manager we have had in years

Good write up Paul. I too thought we defended well overall. My MoM was a joint one between Etheridge and Ralls. Brentford were one of the best sides I have seen this season, but like a few sides before them, Sheff weds and Sheff Utd for instance, all the possession, movement and neat passing (not the Warnock way) came to nothing in the final third and probably due to the way we defend.
I thought Morrison and Feeney were below par yesterday. But overall a sound team performance. If the Warnock way is not always pretty but effective, I will take it all day long.
Spedger

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Warnock is the best manager we have had in years

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:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Sloop_Jon_Bee

Good write up Paul. I too thought we defended well overall. My MoM was a joint one between Etheridge and Ralls. Brentford were one of the best sides I have seen this season, but like a few sides before them, Sheff weds and Sheff Utd for instance, all the possession, movement and neat passing (not the Warnock way) came to nothing in the final third and probably due to the way we defend.
I thought Morrison and Feeney were below par yesterday. But overall a sound team performance. If the Warnock way is not always pretty but effective, I will take it all day long.
Spedger

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Hats off to Brentford for producing a side like that on a budget

I have a lot of time for clubs like that , so close to the big boys of Chelsea , the arse , spurs etc yet their small band of fans yesterday and their team is what football is all about

Not being born and bred in Cardiff and strutting around in a fecking Liverpool or man united top

Fecking assholes

Do Brentford use the 'money ball model' ? Or am I confusing them with Fulham.

[QUOTE=Lawnmower;4808142]Read this earlier.

If we are going to change style to be like Brentford or Fulham we might have to accept a relegation and a few seasons in league 1 unless we've got another £100m to blow by replacing virtually all of our squad.

I like your comparison of Brentford and Fulham - they play very similar styles of football

Being honest I thought we were maybe a bit lucky to win yesterday - however we could easily have scored 5 or 6 as well in difficult conditions :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Lawnmower

Read this earlier.
Enjoyed it , but this attitude about modern football way and only good football being tippy tappy does my head in.

Warnocks team has pace and in Hoillet and Bennett 2 of the best natural footballers you'll see at this level.

I always go back to 'tempo' and that is what we more often than not show in abundance. We play at a fast pace and break quickly.

It's not kick and rush.

Yesterday we committed 4 players forward when Brentford's keeper or back 4 had the ball.

It was high risk as it left Bryson and Ralls exposed and they regularly walked through us.

However many many times we forced them into errors and created chances from that.

Brentford DID play some lovely stuff, but it was at the expense of their defending and they were hopeless at set pieces.

It was a thoroughly entertaining game.

Far far better than when we last had a manager who tried tippy tappy and hardly managed a shot on goal per game.

If we are going to change style to be like Brentford or Fulham we might have to accept a relegation and a few seasons in league 1 unless we've got another £100m to blow by replacing virtually all of our squad.

In the meantime I'm loving a hard working exciting side with some real pace and talent for the first time in years- and that includes Malkys time.

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I don't think anyone is advocating a 'tippy tappy' style, just making observations about the kind of football Warnock likes to play, and it is direct. His main focus is the get the ball forward as quickly as possible, turn defenders and pressurise them high up the pitch, nothing wrong with that, it's worked for him for years, and it's working now, and it's entertaining, especially when the creative aspect, like working a goal, comes to fruition. Like you, i'm thoroughly enjoying it, it's crude, but very entertaining.

Where it does fall down, is at a higher level, where defenders are better, or teams can retain possession for longer periods. Teams that play this style may prosper in the short term, but will not in the long term, or as the opposition get better in quality. that's why Warnock is a championship manager, you'd have thought that with his track record, bigger clubs or clubs with more aspiration than ours, would've come knocking, to my knowledge, they haven't, maybe that's because if a club has serious ambitions of progressing, then Warnock's style will not serve a club too well at a higher level.

For the record, I like him, and i'm loving the style of play, the excitement and willingness to win games, I love the rawness of Mendez-Laing, the unpredictability of Sol Bamba, the reinvention of Zohore, the appreciation Morrison is now getting, and the willingness of Hoilett under Warnock-i'm having a ball, and not in any way being critical of Warnock, just a shame that there aren't more people at the ground to witness it.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

I don't think anyone is advocating a 'tippy tappy' style, just making observations about the kind of football Warnock likes to play, and it is direct. His main focus is the get the ball forward as quickly as possible, turn defenders and pressurise them high up the pitch, nothing wrong with that, it's worked for him for years, and it's working now, and it's entertaining, especially when the creative aspect, like working a goal, comes to fruition. Like you, i'm thoroughly enjoying it, it's crude, but very entertaining.

Where it does fall down, is at a higher level, where defenders are better, or teams can retain possession for longer periods. Teams that play this style may prosper in the short term, but will not in the long term, or as the opposition get better in quality. that's why Warnock is a championship manager, you'd have thought that with his track record, bigger clubs or clubs with more aspiration than ours, would've come knocking, to my knowledge, they haven't, maybe that's because if a club has serious ambitions of progressing, then Warnock's style will not serve a club too well at a higher level.

For the record, I like him, and i'm loving the style of play, the excitement and willingness to win games, I love the rawness of Mendez-Laing, the unpredictability of Sol Bamba, the reinvention of Zohore, the appreciation Morrison is now getting, and the willingness of Hoilett under Warnock-i'm having a ball, and not in any way being critical of Warnock, just a shame that there aren't more people at the ground to witness it.

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👍 Similar style seems to be working for Burnley

An even more direct approach worked for Stoke and West Brom under Pulis too, although I'd say the current Mark Hughes style is more like Warnocks and is doing OK with the players they have got.

Would you also agree that Leicester's league winners played in a similar fast tempo counter attack style.

Morgan and Huth aren't exactly dainty.

Without incredible resources then I'd say this style has as good a chance of competing in the Prem as any.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lawnmower

👍 Similar style seems to be working for Burnley

An even more direct approach worked for Stoke and West Brom under Pulis too, although I'd say the current Mark Hughes style is more like Warnocks and is doing OK with the players they have got.

Would you also agree that Leicester's league winners played in a similar fast tempo counter attack style.

Morgan and Huth aren't exactly dainty.

Without incredible resources then I'd say this style has as good a chance of competing in the Prem as any.

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I tend to agree that Warnocks style may just rattle a few teams, certainly in the short term. Teams in the bottom half of the prem are not that good. God forbid if we were promoted i think he could not help himself and he would give it one more shot particularly if the board continues to support him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lawnmower

👍 Similar style seems to be working for Burnley

An even more direct approach worked for Stoke and West Brom under Pulis too, although I'd say the current Mark Hughes style is more like Warnocks and is doing OK with the players they have got.

Would you also agree that Leicester's league winners played in a similar fast tempo counter attack style.

Morgan and Huth aren't exactly dainty.

Without incredible resources then I'd say this style has as good a chance of competing in the Prem as any.

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Stoke have certainly toned the more direct aspect of their game down in recent seasons, that's one of the reasons Pulis went. West Brom are atrocious, and are sinking fast, I watched the game against Southampton a few weeks back, and they were dire, i'd say that Pulis is more extreme than Warnock. Leicester were high tempo, especially in midfield, where they pressed and released the ball quickly, and supported Vardy, I wouldn't have them down as direct, and I can't remember anyone else really accusing them of being so (correct me if i'm wrong) I've not really seen Burnley, so can't comment. I'm not knocking it, Warnock is doing a great job, and for the first time in a long time, I look forward to games. Can't quite understand why the crowds aren't bigger and the fans aren't more vocal, there does seem to be a hang over of some sorts.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Stoke have certainly toned the more direct aspect of their game down in recent seasons, that's one of the reasons Pulis went. West Brom are atrocious, and are sinking fast, I watched the game against Southampton a few weeks back, and they were dire, i'd say that Pulis is more extreme than Warnock. Leicester were high tempo, especially in midfield, where they pressed and released the ball quickly, and supported Vardy, I wouldn't have them down as direct, and I can't remember anyone else really accusing them of being so (correct me if i'm wrong) I've not really seen Burnley, so can't comment. I'm not knocking it, Warnock is doing a great job, and for the first time in a long time, I look forward to games. Can't quite understand why the crowds aren't bigger and the fans aren't more vocal, there does seem to be a hang over of some sorts.

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I honestly think Leicester's high tempo game I should more like our play now than Pulis's Stoke ((not that I had any problem with that).

We don't even have a genuine target man.
None of Zohore, Bogle or Ward are particularly good in the air, in fact they are all much better on the floor as are our other main attacking threats.. Hoillet and NML

Our centre halfs are similar to Leicester mind 👍

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

I don't think anyone is advocating a 'tippy tappy' style, just making observations about the kind of football Warnock likes to play, and it is direct. His main focus is the get the ball forward as quickly as possible, turn defenders and pressurise them high up the pitch, nothing wrong with that, it's worked for him for years, and it's working now, and it's entertaining, especially when the creative aspect, like working a goal, comes to fruition. Like you, i'm thoroughly enjoying it, it's crude, but very entertaining.

Where it does fall down, is at a higher level, where defenders are better, or teams can retain possession for longer periods. Teams that play this style may prosper in the short term, but will not in the long term, or as the opposition get better in quality. that's why Warnock is a championship manager, you'd have thought that with his track record, bigger clubs or clubs with more aspiration than ours, would've come knocking, to my knowledge, they haven't, maybe that's because if a club has serious ambitions of progressing, then Warnock's style will not serve a club too well at a higher level.

For the record, I like him, and i'm loving the style of play, the excitement and willingness to win games, I love the rawness of Mendez-Laing, the unpredictability of Sol Bamba, the reinvention of Zohore, the appreciation Morrison is now getting, and the willingness of Hoilett under Warnock-i'm having a ball, and not in any way being critical of Warnock, just a shame that there aren't more people at the ground to witness it.

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Good post.
Spedger