Not pleasant viewing but please watch

Thanks for posting that.

A pretty horrible listen.

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Originally Posted by Veg1960

Thanks for posting that.

A pretty horrible listen.

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It's the tip of the iceberg.

Well we know what the issue is , and why we won't say it out loud .

I think he subtly makes a good point about the state of journalism in this country. The tabloid press spends its life in the gutter and therefore garners no respect, his attempt to bring this issue to light was successful because it was written in The Times which is one of the few respected papers in the UK. It isn't enough for the press simply to be 'free', they have be worthy of that freedom too.

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Originally Posted by Mambo

Can you imagine this was the other way around and large groups of white christian men from the UK were colluding to basically groom, rape, sexual abuse and drug young Pakistani girls - what do you think would have happened ?

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None of us can say Mambo. What we can say for sure is that the systematic rape of pre-pubescent children did occur within Christianity all around the world and was covered up by those in power for many years. The lesson should be not to universally trust that those in power have our (and our children's) best interests at heart.

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Originally Posted by Mambo

The reporter seems to have found a mindset in the Police and Social Services as well as Politicians - that were so scared of being labelled a racist - they ignored the child abuse / rape that was going on right in front of them and then even worse - seemed to be covering up the fact that there were a few common denominators - as highlighted by the reporter. But again the mindset seems to be - it wasnt happening to their daughters.

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I think this is spot on. That unfortunately is modern day Britain, 'there is no such thing as society'. We actually don't care about innocent children unless they share our DNA, we have been conditioned not to care.

Didn't he say the girls were brought in from outside areas by social services, housed in a childrens home that accommodated one person, and then they continually went missing?

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

Didn't he say the girls were brought in from outside areas by social services, housed in a childrens home that accommodated one person, and then they continually went missing?

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Yeah it sounds absurd doesn't it. Essex County Council were paying 250k to a private company to house one girl, Did the person in Essex CC in charge of that decision go to prison for not looking after a vulnerable person who was supposed to be in their care? Did the person in charge of the company who neglected their responsibility also go to prison?

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Originally Posted by Mambo

Islam / Christianity (esp Catholics) had an issue.

We also know that it seems the subset he is talking about is male, muslim,Pakistani being allowed to effectively get away with it because the authorities didnt want to cause a fuss - in case they were labelled racist.

The Police would have investigated immediately if it was a white / christian / UK individual - as they are unlikely to be labelled racist when investigating - I think.

The awkward fact for anyone trying to say it's not a Male/Muslim/Pakistani problem is that Muslims account for about 7.5% (so muslim men would be approx 3.5%) of the UK population and yet 75% of child sex offenders are Muslim just searched for those figures - I trust Channel 4

From Channel 4
"75 per cent of recorded Type 1 group abusers, who target victims based on their vulnerability, were Asian. The Office for National Statistics estimates that 7.5 per cent of the UK’s population are Asian.

17 per cent of Type 1 offenders were white, compared to 86 per cent of the UK population."

I dont want to add a flippant remark - but it seems like hunting, grooming, raping, drugging vulnerable white girls has become almost a sport for this section of society. And the first line of defence should they get caught is blame the girls for being drunk/drugged , then make claims of racism.

If it has become a cultural thing - then it is impossible to stop, similar to FGM

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I don't think there is evidence that it is a 'cultural' thing at all. Culture implies that it is somewhat universal within a certain subset of society which I don't believe to be true.

If a group of white men who played for a football team raped a child we would blame/convict the individuals and subsequently try and work out what facilitated the crime or drove them to commit it.

With these instances some people are determined to draw conclusions beforehand - a group of Muslims raped a child, they have religion/culture in common - somewhat absolve their personal guilt by placing implicit guilt on every Muslim or every Pakistani. It isn't racist, it is just lazy and counter productive.

There are two questions, what drove the crimes and what drove the cover up. It is very easy for these to become confused.

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

Yeah it sounds absurd doesn't it. Essex County Council were paying 250k to a private company to house one girl, Did the person in Essex CC in charge of that decision go to prison for not looking after a vulnerable person who was supposed to be in their care? Did the person in charge of the company who neglected their responsibility also go to prison?

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The reporter said this same type of setup was replicated all around the city, so it was a conscious decision by somebody with authority.

I'm only guessing, but 50 blokes lining up inside a house tells me there is the possibility that money may be involved here.

Don't kid yourself about The Times. It is usually full of lies about Syria, Russia, Immigration, etc. We do not have a free press. In fact, there is little freedom anywhere in this country.

Our treacherous elite have been bought by foreign interests. Our elite class deserves far more blame for the child abuse scandal than the Muslim men who abused the girls. They were just Third World Muslims behaving like Third World Muslims. Our elite class enabled it all. They lit the fuse.

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Originally Posted by Mambo

Islam / Christianity (esp Catholics) had an issue.

We also know that it seems the subset he is talking about is male, muslim,Pakistani being allowed to effectively get away with it because the authorities didnt want to cause a fuss - in case they were labelled racist.

The Police would have investigated immediately if it was a white / christian / UK individual - as they are unlikely to be labelled racist when investigating - I think.

The awkward fact for anyone trying to say it's not a Male/Muslim/Pakistani problem is that Muslims account for about 7.5% (so muslim men would be approx 3.5%) of the UK population and yet 75% of child sex offenders are Muslim just searched for those figures - I trust Channel 4

From Channel 4
"75 per cent of recorded Type 1 group abusers, who target victims based on their vulnerability, were Asian. The Office for National Statistics estimates that 7.5 per cent of the UK’s population are Asian.

17 per cent of Type 1 offenders were white, compared to 86 per cent of the UK population."

I dont want to add a flippant remark - but it seems like hunting, grooming, raping, drugging vulnerable white girls has become almost a sport for this section of society. And the first line of defence should they get caught is blame the girls for being drunk/drugged , then make claims of racism.

If it has become a cultural thing - then it is impossible to stop, similar to FGM

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Somewhere along the line, Channel 4's "Asians" have been transformed into "Muslims" - there are other religions in Asia aren't there? It may be that, in this case, the difference between the television channel's "Asians" and your "Muslims" is not that much, but your desire to make what Channel 4 said suit your agenda has, it seems, made you state that it is a fact that all Asian child sex offenders are Muslims when the evidence you base this on does not say that.

Dodgy Dave asked us to avoid this becoming a political bore festival but he's gone and done exactly that , the figures simply don't add up to his agenda which reading his posting history is there in , pardon the terms , black and white

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Originally Posted by Mambo

Apologies Bob re Asians and Muslims. Asians come from Asia, and Muslims from all over the world. In this case though - the Asians - were all Muslim men and all originated from Pakistan or Bangladesh.

I get your point though - allow me to investigate re the 7.5% Asian figures. I guess - you are right - that 7.5% Asian figure could in theory mean and even lower percentage were Pakistani / Bangladeshi. I will need to find out - out of the 76% Asian Type 1 sex offenders - how many were from Pakistan/Bangladesh and that will give an accurate figure.
The journalist in question though - seems pretty sure of his figures - maybe I'll email him.

Maybe worth a read
https://news.sky.com/story/grooming-...chers-11164589

Remember though - the investigator was specifically talking Type1 offenders - men who target vulnerable young girls.
There are other types of sex offenders - who are white or black etc. But in these cases it was the highly organised, highly motivated men that operate as gangs from the grooming stage to the abuse stage that is a problem he was trying to address etc.

On a lighter note - 3-1 city tomorrow. Pilks to score twice.

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I'd love to see us win by that score, but I think much will depend on whether Boro see a draw as a good result. I think they might and so I'd be surprised if there were more than a goal in it - with us so close to an automatic promotion spot, I would have thought we'd be trying to win the match, but it might be that we won't be too disappointed with a draw if we feel the top six is a more realistic target.

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Originally Posted by Mambo

Just read the report from David Spicer re the review of Operation Sanctuary - this was just about the newcastle case - where Police have identified over 700 girls who had been abused / attacked / groomed etc. It does not include the 1400 odd girls in Rotheram, Rochdale, Peterborugh and all the other places this has been going on.

Anyway :- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-43153556

The government said it would "look carefully" at Mr Spicer's 33 recommendations, which also included a need for research into the cultural background of abusers, many of whom in the case of Sanctuary were from a "predominantly Asian or British Minority Ethnic culture or background"

Mr Spicer, who carried out the serious case review for the Newcastle Safeguarding Adults and Children Boards, said it was clear "adults were being targeted, groomed and exploited" as well as children.

He also said the government needs to research the "profiles, motivations and cultural and background influences of perpetrators of sexual exploitation".

In the Newcastle case, most of the men were British-born but all came from Bangladeshi, Pakistani, Indian, Iraqi, Iranian or Turkish communities.

Think tank the Quillam Foundation, which focuses on counter-extremism, said 84% of the 264 offenders convicted of grooming between 2005 and 2017 were of south Asian heritage.

THIS IS JUST FROM THE NEWCASTLE / NORTHUMBRIA AREA, there are lots more areas.

If people cannot see the correlation between the abusers 'cultural' backgrounds here, the way they organise themselves etc and the common denominators - then you are choosing not to see it. Just hope that it is never your daughter, grand daughter, niece etc

Nothing more to say - but watch the video and read the report - please.

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I knew somebody would do this when I saw the story yesterday.

He's recommended research be done into what enables or encourages them to commit the offences, this will obviously include cultural aspects on a local and then wider level. This is exactly my point from earlier! Lets research, lets analyse, lets learn!! Saying its 'their culture', without research (as people on here were) is lazy and dangerous - correlation doesn't always equal causation.

I think there is a huge distinction between saying 'there may be cultural reasons why these offenders commit these crimes' and saying 'it is pakistani muslim culture to commit these offences'. One is patently wrong as the vast majority of those with pakistani muslim heritage residing in the uk are not committing these offences. The other is a worthy starting point for an investigation into how we allowed this to happen. There should be plenty of heads on the chopping block here. If the report is simply concerned with race and religion then it is a fudge. Safeguarding on vulnerable young people is a huge issue within local authorities these days and clearly a lot is going wrong.

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Originally Posted by Mambo

The report says what is says, these people would not commit these crimes in Pakistan for example etc - and if they did, they would be executed - well in some parts of Pakistan / Afghanistan they maybe, in other parts it seems to be normal practice - and I think that's where the cultural issues are.

Rome burns whilst Eric fiddles, working out his solution , in the mean time - it will just continue - and yes Eric - if you have kids, grand kids one day it may affect them to.

No one has ever said it is all South Asian Men doing this. BUT of all the type1 victims, the perpetrators have been 80odd% South East Asian men. That tells even the most amateur Sherlock - there is a cultural problem here.

If you had a daughter and you found out she had a new friend, twice her age, who was giving her lots of presents, and he was introducing her to all his male friends the same age as himself and taking her to private house parties with them. Would you A. Wish the happy couple well in their relationship or B. Be concerned that she maybe being groomed for sex in return for drugs / alcohol.

Would it cross your mind perhaps that hang on a minute - older man, south east asian background, different religion, lots of private house parties - I think Ive read something about this... ah never mind - probably nothing to be concerned about.....

There's not much in carrying on this discussion - as I dont think you would be too concerned of the above scenario.

Have a great weekend.

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Cheap pathetic ad hominem (scattered throughout but the bold rounds it off nicely) and so far from the truth.

Eric isn't fiddling, the review suggests research not a leap straight to the conclusion. The review and subsequent research will be conducted with the aim of trying to prevent future occurrences, you appear to be only preoccupied with squaring, in your own mind, who is to blame and why. The review concludes there is a predominant feature of the people prosecuted but the people conducting the review recognise that simply saying 'it is their culture' is about as pointless as pretending you don't see the pattern in the first place'. If we want to fix the problem then we need to understand it.

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No one has ever said it is all South Asian Men doing this. BUT of all the type1 victims, the perpetrators have been 80odd% South East Asian men. That tells even the most amateur Sherlock - there is a cultural problem here.

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Bearing in mind that culture means 'the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society'. Which culture are you referring to and what cultural problem are you referring to?

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If you had a daughter and you found out she had a new friend, twice her age, who was giving her lots of presents, and he was introducing her to all his male friends the same age as himself and taking her to private house parties with them. Would you A. Wish the happy couple well in their relationship or B. Be concerned that she maybe being groomed for sex in return for drugs / alcohol.

Would it cross your mind perhaps that hang on a minute - older man, south east asian background, different religion, lots of private house parties - I think Ive read something about this... ah never mind - probably nothing to be concerned about.....

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It wouldn't get that far.

Would you wait to find out if he was a Muslim from SE Asia to be concerned that your teenage daughter was disappearing with men twice her age? :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Mambo

That's what the parents of those girls thought as well. And guess what - it did get that far.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ochdale-696502 - there is fairly good time of it all, as detailed by Sara Rowbotham (original whistle blower)

Eric - you wouldn't necessarily know your daughter had been groomed etc and even if you had and something terrible had happened - when you go to the Police and social services - they just ignore you.

You may think you are smart Eric - but there are smarter people out there than you - and not all of them are very nice. Imagine you go to the police over and over again - and nothing ever gets done - what would you do then ?

No one wants to know about your story, and every time the police have been called your daughter is drunk or on drugs - given to her by her 'friends'.

The fact that every complaint made is against a male, a south east asian male, same religion, same cultural background and every time the man is different - apart from those same traits. They did because (as mentioned on any questions radio4 today by one of the panelists) that subset of 'individual' held common beliefs, women were second class, white british women are 3rd class - hence they were targetted.

As you say though - there is nothing in it - all just hearsay and rumour and they are being picked on because of who they etc.

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You are going off on a very strange tangent now. I don't doubt there are victims who aren't listened to. I really have no idea what your point is now. I will remind you of your initial one:

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Would you A. Wish the happy couple well in their relationship or B. Be concerned that she maybe being groomed for sex in return for drugs / alcohol.

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My answer is clearly B.

If you are now asking me if I am the cleverest man in the world then I would imagine I am not. Where are we going with this?
Thankfully the clever people are going to do some research and come up with some ideas about how we stop it happening again. You have professed to know the problem, 'their culture', in about 20 different posts over a number of separate threads now and yet you haven't offered one suggestion steps we can take to fix the problem - so whilst apportioning blame might be simple often that has no real purpose.

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As you say though - there is nothing in it - all just hearsay and rumour and they are being picked on because of who they etc.

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I suggest you go have a lie down because you are seeing things and it isn't the first time :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Mambo

Just reported what others (more smarter than I) have published. Im not offering solutions, just trying to point out the common denominators. But that is ok Eric , as in your Utopian world, it's not a problem. People have been too scared to call this out for what it is - mass rape based on a warped culture. Luckily Newcastle Police / social services finally believed a woman when she reported the issues.

No doubt - if it was the Eric Cartman council run by a bunch or Eric Cartmans - this would never have seen the light of day and everyones concerns would have been dismissed as scare mongering.

ps - you can do your Grindr joke now , about "Dad's and cock size" :shrug:

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This is such a gross misrepresentation of my position that I don't even know where to begin.

You should take a leaf out of ninianclark's and croesy's CCMB posting manuals, they scarper when they have wandered down a blind alley.

Stop digging and move on to the next thread because it is embarrassing.

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Originally Posted by Mambo

Can you ever leave a thread without being the last one to post (similar trait as my first wife?)
come on do your grindr joke , it wouldnt

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*Irony alert*

I am meant to just leave the thread so the last word is you lying about what I have said?

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Originally Posted by Mambo

The Mirror ran with story today https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...ming-12165527/

Another gang exposed, this time in Telford, over 1000 girls abused . The headline says "Britain's 'worst ever' child grooming scandal exposed: Hundreds of young girls raped, beaten, sold for sex and some even KILLED"

Social Workers and Authorities and Police looks like they did not act on information they were given. The fact the Mirror are calling this the worst one discovered so far is that one of the abusers Azhar Ali Mehmood got one girl pregnant - and then burnt the house down killing her, her sister and her mother

Seems to be endemic in the UK

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It is quite a confusing article, the incidents happened in the 80's and 90's and then it goes on to exclaim 'why didn't they learn from Rotherham' - well because that hadn't been uncovered then either.

Horrendous and paints a terrible picture of Britain in those days, just got to hope it isn't being allowed to happen now (I am sure we will find out in 20 years either way...)

It doesn't matter how many have been raped. Our elite class don't care. To them these girls are rubbish. Our elite class have no feelings of kinship for the lower classes. They are ashamed of them. They will always take the side of "the other" against the white British underclass and the working class. Our elite class are traitors. That is why they are so upset by the death of that rotten Russian traitor?