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Corbyn may well have been an idiot with many of his policies but it seems he was onto something
The health secretary recently had a fifty grand donation from a private healthcare company well up for privatisation of the NHS into an American insurance model
I wouldn't say Corbyn is an idiot the media did a number on him.
He had good intentions but his leadership was shambolic and his manifesto idiotic , macdonnell has taken responsibility whether corbyn does or not is irrelevantQuote:
Originally Posted by trampie09
What now needs to be seen is an attack on Tory policy such as the NHS reforms
I liked Labours manifesto.
Many others didnt .Quote:
Originally Posted by trampie09
Have you.heard anyone say that the main reason they didn't vote Labour was their manifesto?Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Anyway, what's the point in making this another thread about Labour when it was started to talk about the future of the NHS?
I've always thought even the Conservatives would not be daft enough to privatise the NHS because the British public would never stand for it, but, after the election result, I'm coming around to thinking there are millions and millions in this country who will fuorgive them and their leader of anything as long as they "Get Brexit Done" - for Johnson and Cummings read Trump and Bannon.
What's the point in making this another thread about Labour when we can make it about Trump and Bannon instead. If I ever mention the T word outside of the marathon DT thread I always get castigated! :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
I would have thought it would be obvious in this thread anyway, given what the OP said about Corbyn possibly being right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
I thought it was obvious comparing the media and establishment treatment of Corbyn and Trump, but it wasn't apparently :wink: It was also strange because MAGA is more like Brexit, as we are now seeing.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Most don't read them so cant see how you can say that, I take it you didn't like Labours manifesto ?Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Don't forget to watch this if you can it's a portent for the NHS under the tories
Because Labour had their worst election since 1935.Quote:
Originally Posted by trampie09
Many felt that betrayed by Labour and their lack of democracy over Brexit.
Many hated the idea of Corbyn ever being a Prime Minister.
Could you seriously imagine him having adult discussions and negotiations with America (or does it depend on who the POTUS is?), with China, EU, Nato, etc..... and dare I say it, the Queen.
Many hated the Marxist Corbynism ideology.
Many believed that the country would be less secure with Corbyn, Abbott, et al.
Very many believed that Corbynism would result in extreme inflation and the country becoming bankrupt.
All of this and much more based around Labour's manifesto.
I have very different political views to many Labour politicians and supporters (on here and elsewhere).
One thing I respect a great deal, is the likes of Sludge who have accepted the negative comments about the Corbynist Labour, taken it like a man and looking at ways to improve for a better future for Labour.
Britain needs a strong opposition, but not a screaming and arrogant opposition, that doesn't listen to anyone, that believes it is their way of thinking only.
Even now, unbelievably Corbyn believes Labour won 'the argument'!!!!
Corbyn, also wants to control the election of the next Leader of the Labour.
Get him and his Corbynist cohorts away from 'any' position of power as soon as humanly possible.
Never, ever allow the likes of Laura Pidcock back into Labour.
Then choose a proper Leader, with non Corbynist shadow cabinet, that will be fit for the future.
These are the most crucial decisions and times for Labour for the 25 years or more.
Get the decisions right and if Johnson and Conservatives mess up over the next 5 years, then many will flock back to Labour in droves.
If the Conservatives get it right, a number will return to Labour and Labour will be in a strong position for the future.
If Labour get these decisions wrong - they're dead!!!!
I couldn't agree more , there are rumblings that momentum are pushing for a corbyn like replacement to take overQuote:
Originally Posted by JDerrida
If that person takes the same political stance as corbyn et all , the labour party will be no more than a protest group
Brexit is going to be a disaster in my opinion and labour need to be ready to offer an alternative
It was a truly enlightened and transformative manifesto. I think many many people were always going to criticize it and reject it even before they had read it just because it was from Labour.Quote:
Originally Posted by trampie09
Quote:
Originally Posted by trampie09
Sky News Australia on Corbyn
Possibly over dubbed? lip reading, some of it seems OK but maybe not all
https://twitter.com/MarquessBraith1/...03718056628226
How about the millions who criticised and rejected it because of its contents?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
In life, there are people who will have a different or very different viewpoint from others.
We have polarised politics, where the vast majority totally rejected Corbynism, which infiltrates the manifesto.
There a LOT of people who dislike the Conservatives and Johnson, but nowhere near the amount of Labour.
That's a democracy.
The lunatics protesting outside Westminster and Downing Street, were supported by the Socialist Worker!!!
Being a Socialist now has significant negative connotations, which has some justification.
When you see these protesters, Antifa groups, filled with absolute hatred for anyone or anything that doesn't think exactly as they do, then that will further alienate any future hopes for socialists to ever get back into power.
When the vast majority have just spoken, you are not going to persuade through aggression and attempted intimidation.
You won't change perceptions overnight and there won't be an election for 5 years.
For Labour, it's a long haul and they MUST use this time extremely wisely.
Failure to do so, will see its demise.
Christ I hope you are watching this , more privatisation in 2019 than ever beforeQuote:
Originally Posted by JDerrida
More outsourcing of operations than ever before
Jon pilger
Read the thread i didn't suggest it was a manifesto i responded to trampie 09 view he liked the manfesto .Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
My view is the loss has be coming for decades they are not the party they were and unless they move to the centre they are ducked .
Its worth noting this is the 4th left of centre party that has gone to the country and lost all 4.
The losses are more about the bigger picture in the country than just manfesto pledges, Labour failures are more about not understanding what the people want and how to create a policy around that and sell it.
They need to move forward with new bright policies , not reach back to dated philosophies of things like nationalisation, evil rich people, Tories hate the NHS and blame everyone and thing , Its like 'the woe is me, party everyone hates us '.
They just have to become likable and believable again ,create a new vision of the NHS in the modern world not use old rhetoric and not weaponise the the NHS politically .
Tough one though .
Me tooQuote:
Originally Posted by trampie09
Which parts of the manifesto did you think were idiotic?Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Wholesale nationalisation for a startQuote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
Bringing public utilities such as gas , electricity and water back under public control has my support but not in the lightening quick manner labour under corbyn were suggesting , public investment in services , great idea , totally support but it needs to be gradual or the public finances would have got out of control
Mass council house building however got my support , forget all this affordable housing nonsense which is just a percentage off the market value , we need huge investment in public rented housing like we did in the post war years and that's housing to rent not rent then buy and sell off to feather your own nest and bollocks to the next person in need
Anyway onto last night's show, privatisation in the NHS began under thatcher and Ridley, continued under major , continued under blair then was given full steam ahead by the 2012 HEALTH AND SOCIAL CARE BILL under Cameron and his liberal chums , it's getting worse and worse year on year
The manifesto was a response to a crystal clear message from the Tories on Brexit and seductive sweeties that austerity was over and the purse strings will be loosened on things that people valued like the NHS. Anyone who thinks the Johnson Tory Party values the NHS is a little deluded. They love it enough to neuter it as a Labour weapon. That's why they went into crisis mode around the poor lad sleeping on the floor.
Given Labour's deliberate ambiguity on Brexit, designed to minimise losses of Remain and Leave voters in a way that sort of worked two years ago, they needed clear water beyond Tory promises on spending plans. That's why the manifesto turned into a mouthwatering smorgasbord of spending offerings. The Tories probably knew that their spending promises will not be sustainable but were happy if Labour saw a massive public spending explosion as their trump card.
Labour lost 2.6 million votes from 2017. Lib Dems gained 1.3 million and other Remain parties further hundreds of thousands. Corbyn lost more centrist voters than he did traditional working class voters who admittedly did more damage leaping directly from Labour to Conservative in the constituencies that counted.
Out-thought and outflanked. If the strategists who brought us this disaster think that a Young Jeremy in Long-Bailey is the answer then they only need to look how well Young Maggie did under William Hague when the Tories were going through a similar crisis.
I recorded it (the john Pilger film) and just watched it. The Americans warning us of what will happen if the pharma and medical insurance companies take over the NHS are the most powerful - they know what the alternative looks like and it stinks.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
It's going to be a total nightmareQuote:
Originally Posted by jon1959