Port Talbot lad 'Shouting at the seat of power': remainer gatecrashes 100 TV interviews.
Is he a City fan perhaps?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...y_to_clipboard
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Port Talbot lad 'Shouting at the seat of power': remainer gatecrashes 100 TV interviews.
Is he a City fan perhaps?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...y_to_clipboard
He wants a " peoples vote " didnt we have one of them ? ? ? ? or was that just a practice run ? ?
At the risk of getting this moved to the politics thread...Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
- Cameron resigned the day after
- Government admitted they hadn't planned for a leave outcome and 4 months until the UK is scheduled to leave the EU there is no agreed UK position on what Brexit should look like. We're onto the third Brexit secretary where the first barely engaged with the EU, the second resigned 4 months before the job is finished as didn't like deal he had been negotiating and third is relatively unknown minister. Haven't 19 ministers now resigned stating Brexit as the reason?
- Strong suggestion that the Leave campaign was supported in an illegal manner
- Issues with negotiating trade deals outside of the EU also
- Polls suggest majority now back remain.
Sorry MM.
I'm not sure the majority now support remain.
I was a remainer but once we deccidee to leave my attitude is lets do it. We voted for it so get on with it. The people shouting about remaining just don't like the fact they were beaten................just like the democrats in the USA. They think that their opinions are the right ones and that anyone who disagrees is an idiot.
If we go to the EU now and say we want to stay they will eat us alive!!!! It is not an option!!!
When you say eat us alive do you mean carry on as we have been for the last 40 odd years or do you think they will change the rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
He means that we won't command the authority we used to within the EU while we were threatening to leave. We basically would have an incredibly weak hand if we were to return now.Quote:
Originally Posted by insider
I wanted to stay in the EU, but we voted out and out we have to go otherwise democracy is at stake. I still think it was a dreadful decision and the negative impacts have barely started.
On the other hand I will cheerfully leave behind a European Commission run by the petty minded little bureaucrat Junckers, who thinks he's President of Europe and is trying to arrange his succession to cling onto power when he has to step down.
Brave New World coming up - let's hope the younger generation have the balls to make something of the shit we've left for them to deal with
I was a remainer.
I dont think we will stay in just carry head long over the cliff.
My son is 18 he didn't even get a chance to vote and his generation will feel the consequences more than the people that have retired.
If somehow miraculously we stayed in i dont think our position would change .
Why would it?
EU would get what they want.
Ye. That's all it is. I hate losing.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
When a load of people vote on something without having a fecking clue about why they are voting, that has to be considered a feckin sham. My cousin hadn't ever voted in an election in 30 years of life. He has ZERO idea about poitics. He voted OUT. He did that because of tabloid brain washing and peer pressure. I have NO doubts about that.
Maybe, after three years of understanding the reality that faces the people of England, Wales and Scotland, some people might be better placed to make an informed decision....whether it be to vote out again , or to vote remain.
Why is it that one election is democratic and two is anti-democtratic ? The people will still decide, and if they are so hell bent on sticking with an OUT vote, then the brexiteers will have nothing to worry about. However, as much as it might seem to people like you that remainers are bad losers, I get the feeling from the other side that they can't believe their luck and are going to fight to enforce the vote, not for the benefit of the people, but just because they can and will.
It's totally stupid to compare it to the Trump vote and the democrats reaction as this referendum wont be reversable in 4 or 8 years time. We are talking serious stuff here, and to accuse remainers of having a hissy fit is undersestimating the extent to which people are genuinely worried and, for me sums up everything that's wrong with the modern 'british' mentality. It's just infantile and pig-headed.
I'm gradually taking on the attitude that many foreign, british-based friends of mine are taking ... "If they don't want us, they can keep it." As a European, I feel that if the majority of your country want to vote for xenophobia then I have no place there. I feel sorry for some of you but as a state and a people , the british have gone down in my estimation over the last four years or so.
Well no because no one knew what leave meant, it wasn’t defined at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
Id remain given the choice because I think in the long and short term it’s better for the country, especially the working class and especially wales.
But I’d be happy with a people’s vote where all the options are leave but spelled out how.
I’ve read some bad takes but this is up there with the worst. It wasn’t a football match or a war no one cares about losing, people want a voice in what’s going to happen to their country especially when at the moment we are going to be much poorer in 6 months time.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
Well put and that’s not even going into the fact that the leave vote’s main funders are now under criminal investigation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Divine Wright
The thing is if we leave as an individual I’ll be fine, but the majority of people are going to be poorer for it and working class areas are going to fall deeper into decline.
As long as Jacob Rees Mogg and Nigel farage get richer though!
If you voted leave you may want to question why the biggest leave campaigners have moved their business to Dublin and applied for German passports for their kids.
But at least you’ll have to see fewer polish people!
People could do their own research on what leave may entail. It's kind of an unfortunate aspect of life that you don't know every specific detail regarding an outcome before you do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by rudy gestede
Because of this people are often risk adverse and seek to keep the status quo, the fact that wasn't the case suggests people wanted change. Unfortunately many more mistakes have taken place since the referendum which will leave us as some sort of limbo state.
Precisely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penarth Blues
Why the use of past tense? I think what you say still applies now.Quote:
Originally Posted by rudy gestede
I’ve done plenty of research it’s nothing to do with risk aversion we will be much poorer for leaving at least in the short term and more than surely in the long term.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger
What positives do you think could come from it?
Exactly even the government can’t decide between the hardline and the non.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
The submitted article 50 just to calm every one down before even drawing up a basic outline. Most incompetent idiots in British history.
They’re just very lucky a lot of people believe everything they read in the tabloids and think the eu and Ireland are being unreasonable when it’s all us.
Looks like Steve the chippy from Taibach.
The whole thing stinks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger
Unkown outcomes ? You know now. You still have time to change it. There is no rule that says ‘one vote only’. This is like jumping off a cliff, seeing the spiky rocks below, having a pause button in your hand and still saying to yourself “ well, I jumped, didn’t I ? Can’t be seen to turn back now . Just gonna see what kind of splat my body makes on them rocks”.
YOU might think this was a courageous vote on behalf of the Leavers. I think it was a vote in large parts made by scared man-children, consumed by the fear of islamic fundamentalists invading their borders and blowing up Tesco Upperboat (or whatever the equivalent may be in Warrington or Taunton or wherever). Why else would people like my cousin vote ? Because of EU fishing laws !?! Come off it.
It feels manufactured at some level.
What mistakes have been made?? The fact that you THOUGHT you had any bargaining power whatsoever over the EU ??! They’ve been clear since the beginning, there is no negotiation. You leave and you are treated like any other country is outside the EU. It’s not complicated. There is no deal that will give you and the Tories what you want. It will never happen. So brace yourself.
You could, unfortunately the vast majority of people didn't or couldn't be bothered. Hardly any of the MPs did, you've still got Dominic Raab saying 2 and a half years after saying he only recently understood that Dover-Calais was important, and Nadine Dorries still thinks we should have MEPs. It's absolutely farcical and I don't think it is unreasonable to have another vote as the Tories have made such a mess out of it. I think two and a half years on, we know the full picture (to a degree) and we know exactly what we're voting for so I think this is perfectly democratic to say to the people, you choose what we do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger
*Side note and note to Mods.*
God forbid the main forum should have political debate. You better go move the Gareth Thomas thread while you’re at it.
Joke.
I voted remain ,but having watched the Europeans representatives at work ,and learning the costs of this organisation whose primary worry at the outset was the divorce bill and pension fund , I feel were better out in the long run ,and would vote that way if we had a second vote.
Time to be brave.
I have a sneaky feeling once were out and the project fear is put aside others will follow ,which is the worry for Germany and France , the main beneficiaries .
Rees Mogg says the long run is 50 years. Most of us can't wait that long.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
You don't see as much of the arrogance which claimed that countries would be queuing up to trade with us from 30 March any more - maybe the penny has dropped after two and a half years of being an international laughing stock?
The Referendum was called by a Prime Minister who wanted to shut up an anti EU wing of his party which had banged on about nothing else for a quarter of a century or more. He, and his Chancellor, are gone now because their gamble failed and they did such an atrocious job of trying to persuade the country into believing they were right. Now, after a totally pointless election (again called for purely party political reasons) called by his successor which side tracked the leaving process for months and left the governing party in a much weaker state, we are at a stage where the Prime Minister is trying to push through a leaving arrangement that it would appear has remainers and leavers united against it. If Parliament does end up accepting Mrs May's negotiated settlement, we're going to be left as members of te EC in all but name still with the same bunch of rebels in the tory parrty crying betrayal for the sidelines that Cameron tried to silence, so what will have been the point in it all?
In the background, the hard line leavers are desperately trying to cobble together the numbers required to launch a vote of no confidence against the PM which it's generally agreed she'd win anyway, so Rees-Mogg and co seem to be guilty of a serious miscalculation.
Meanwhile, the official opposition are basically saying nothing in the probably mistaken belief that they will gain from the Government's woes. After all, there is little evidence that this has happened over the past two and a half years, so why should it changed now - once again, we are saying purely party political interests at a time when something less shallow than that is required.
As I say, an international laughing stock.
Yep yep yep and yep.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
It’s a farce and we’re all going to reap the consequences of a public schoolboy spat.
I didn't realise you were present in the negotiations.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Always the clever comment , I'm pretty sure you may get the point I was making, pity you have to resort to lowering ones contribution .Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman
Its awful and not one politician can hold his head high anymore in my view , I thought others were better l , Brexit s has certainly opened up my eyes to the selfish platform politicians exist on ,even now others could come together and agree a deal , unfornalty the only game in town is leadership , point scoring and the chance to get a general election in the frenzy for power .Quote:
Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2
On what planet does any of the critics of this current deal think they can agree a new or better deal, te European commission is fairly strong and consistent on reporting that position.
They would concede if we decided to stay in , and that's is the long game for them in my view , whoever is in front of them they will not concede or budge , in fact some Europeans are reported as saying they have gone too far in conceding on some points .
The point you were making? That you have 'watched the European representatives at work'. Have you or not?Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Yes, in 1975.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt