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I thought the point you were making was that he is currently our second best player not that he might become that in the near future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
3 star men .. Ampadu is our second best player!
I would agree that he has the potential to become perhaps our most influential player as Bales and Ramsey's talents wane but there is a gap in experience and quality that will take some time to close.
O ye, of little faith :biggrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays
I'm talking about the quality of the opposition, not the ability of the player. Even the world's best players need to be playing at the highest levels to maintain their competative edge.Quote:
Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays
I think Ampadu has done enough to show he would be in our current strongest eleven, but our second best player after Bale? Not yet, Ramsey, Allen, Ben Davies and probably one or two others have a stronger claim for that position at the moment.
Yep, all fantastic players, but I am thinking more of the role that Ampadu plays that makes him such an important player in our team. I think we got lucky, and it will become more apparent as we move forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Coincidentally as Bale, Allen and Ramsey age, and Ampadu gets to his peak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
Yep, and our team could look something like, this with loads more talent available too!Quote:
Originally Posted by WJ99mobile
Ward
C. Roberts - Rodon - Mepham - Davies
Brooks - Smith - Ampadu - Wilson
Woodburn - T. Roberts
He's good, but he isn't our second best player, like you said he is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
He's hardly played. Let's see how everybody performs in the next few games. Denmark is a big test, and that should separate the men from the boys, so to speak. I actually predicted Ampadu would have a big impact for Wales before his rave reviews against Ireland. I watched him play next to Luiz and Christensen, and on both occasions he was the better player.Quote:
Originally Posted by City123
Ampadu... are we still doing this? :hehe:
Haters gonna hate init :biggrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by MacAdder
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
Yep and over the next few years more young players will be breaking through.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
We also have Lawrence as well.
4 welsh born players. That would suggest a problem with developing footballers from within the country. It’s a dangerous game because if the 7 england born players had decided not to represent Wales, we’d be fukt from what I gather. I find it a really disappointing that welsh schools and football system have potentially produced 4 players good enough to get in the future wales team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
There's 5 in that side, Ward, Roberts, Rodon, Davies and Wilson. 12 of the current squad are welsh born, and that's not including Ramsey and Bale. Most of them have played Victory Shield football too, it's not as if we've found them from nowhere. Thomas, Ampadu, Smith and T. Roberts were part of the side that beat England in 2014.Quote:
Originally Posted by Divine Wright
When I said he's hardly played, it was meant for those who think he's our 7th or 8th best player. I have already seen him play enough to reach my own conclusions that he is much better than that :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by City123
Anyway, let's see what happens against Denmark when the chips are really down. If I am wrong I will gladly admit it :thumbup:
That’s exactly my point. There has always been a majority welsh-born team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
The FAW has obviously gone big on finding foreign born young dual nationality players in the last few years. I think it’s a dangerous tactic for the long term.
For one, it means there is something wrong with scouting, promoting football or developing welsh footballers in the LoW or cardiff/swansea systems.
I think we’ll eventually end up suffering from this strategy due to the “Michael Owen” effect.
Anyone who is of obvious world class talent will be snapped up by england lured by the chance to become stars at biannual international competitions, especially in a world where footballers seem to be getting more and more individualistic. This in fact is one of the things I love about our new stock of foreign born players. They seem to have values that go beyond personal gain.
Even so, I think it’s something to be careful of and we shouldn’t be naive enough to think this calibre of player will always choose Wales. We need to carry on improving the system from within the country so the two approaches can complement eachother.
It's all about heritage, if my mother or father were born elsewhere, I would gladly run through brick walls if I was chosen to represent the land of their birth.
They're trying to find good players. That's it. They're all playing through the age groups and want to play for Wales, in the UK it's going to be a problem that people move about pretty freely. There are players there that have turned down England to play for us, I think you're being too logical. Michael Owen was born in England and dreamed of playing for England. He could have played for Wales but he wasn't welsh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Divine Wright
You're still depending on the will of an individual. Look at what happened with Declan Rice. When he decided to go elsewhere it was a real kick in the teeth for an Irish team already light on quality players. We are fortunate that the current crop have a clear idea of where they want to be and that they could actually turn out to be players that might have got into the England squad. But that's through luck rather than design.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
I think everybody knows the feeling of desperation when a young dual-national has yet to get a full cap for his country. You're always a little bit on tenterhooks until he becomes a full international. And I'm sure in the future we'll see people who come through the youth set up here and then decide last minute to play for England.
I'm just saying that it's a risky game to play and that your "bread and butter" should be homegrown players who can only represent Wales. It's very logical, as you say, but I think using logic to anticipate problems in the future is the right way to go about doing things!
They're not our bread and butter though, the majority of the squad are welsh born. It's up to the FAW and Giggs, Roberts etc to make sure these lads feel Welsh. If they're not Welsh, they'll know. Woodburn, Ampadu etc have never wavered. If Brooks and Ampadu, who have welsh parents and want to play for Wales over England, then great. We're not jettisoning Welsh players, we're picking the best ones available. In South Wales in particular we've had Allen, Bale and Ramsey come through at the same age or pretty near. Those three would arguably get in every Welsh side ever, Bale for an absolute certainty. There's going to be a balance where we won't see players that good from a country of 3m people for a while. We might, but we probably won't. We've been spoilt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Divine Wright
Our best team still has Hennessey, Roberts/Gunter, Davies, Allen, Ramsey, Bale, Wilson/Lawrence (or both). That's a Welsh born spine, supplemented with Roberts, Ampadu, Smith, Mepham, Ash, Brooks etc.
In a 2020, we'll probably line up like:
Ward
Roberts Rodon Mepham Davies
Allen Ampadu
Brooks Ramsey Wilson
Bale
Or something like that. There's 3 "Anglos", and 2 have welsh parents.
I was refering to future generations. Not present.
As things stand, when the 2016 squad are all but retired in 5 years or so we’ll possibly have a team made up of majority foreign-born players, which is fine , but it’s the generation of youngsters coming through in a decades time that will be interesting.
Just to reiterrate, I’m not questioning the legitimacy of foreign-born players. Just saying it’s risky putting all your eggs in one basket.
Why and how are we putting all our eggs in one basket? Who is missing out? Do you think that we aren't developing players intentionally? I would be very surprised in 5 years or so if the majority of our team is foreign born. Pretty much all of our u21 squad are Welsh born, while we've got some extremely talented young players in Wilson, Rodon, Roberts etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Divine Wright
We are witnessing all the hard work of Osian Roberts finally coming to fruition.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...-wales-2245679
This is the sort of thing I mean by us relying too much on the will of dual-nationality players.,..this one is kind of the other way round though....in that he’s very much welsh in terms of upbringing...
“Born in Liverpool, Matondo is also eligible for England but - for now at least - is happy with the country where he has spent the majority of his life.
"I am set on Wales at the moment, we'll see what happens but I'm set on Wales."”
That type of thing makes me feel nervy...so nervy that I’d be tempted to fastrack him through to the senior squad. At least that way you know where you stand with the kid.