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I wonder what the real behind the doors reaction is too the result , is it :
Labour realise that if you add up the second and third votes it beats them.
Are all the Brexit votes real Tory voters .
Does the Brexit voters contain disillusioned Labour voters .
Tories thinking only a Brexit leader now will turn the Brexit back to them.
Intrigued we are .
Labour had 2 full time coordinators in Peterborough from January. First job was to negate the criminal conviction of the former MP and second was to concentrate on local issues.To complicate things along came an unexpected EU election and the BPLtd. This not only had the effect of splitting the Tory vote but also getting some remainers over to us. Finally the GOTV was supplemented by 500 or so momentum activists bussed in from all over.
A one off election with an organisation that could not be replicated at a GE.
To answer your question, yes the BPLtd voters are mainly Tories with a few from other parties, including Labour, thrown in. Labour has a substantial group of voters who will vote for them irrespective of Brexit stance, more so than Tories.
Yes, Boris Johnson is likely to be elected as PM by the 100k or so Tory membership. A brexiteer whose reign will end in chaos.
Which could also spell the end of the Conservative party in its current form.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy corbyn
Labour can be knocked in may ways (as they should be with their questionable leadership) but you can't take away the fact that they are incredibly well organised in the constituencies. It is those on the ground that are likely to secure a Labour victory and not the many loons they seem to have in Parliament. The Peterborough victory was down to their excellent organisation rather than anything else.
It’s pretty straight forward to me. Same will happen in Wales.
Did I vote the brexit party in the Europe elections. Yes
Would I vote for them in a general election. No
Would I vote for them in a general election. No[/QUOTE]
Good
Yes to ge fair once that awful woman was convicted and gone they acted well and quickly , to repair the damage , strangely if they reacted in the same with other people like young Prescott, Williamson and some of the more extreme anti semetism dissections, I think it would make the media job much a lot harder .
I do think a new leader would really boost them now ,they don't have to give up thier policy drive, if JC went ??
I can only presume JC is actually keen on power which surprises me, as its not a natural fit ,his best attribute appears to in opposition ,challenging in a populist manner , not giving many interviews or media quotes.
He must know being PM will require him to be more accepting on appearances and engagement , and his world will be so much different than challenging the establishment , as he will be the custodian of the establishment.
The one who replaced her has come with baggage, alleged liking anti-Semitic twitter posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
A couple of dodgy geezers also under the spotlight regarding the alleged rigging of postal votes.
That's the scary bit. Him, and more worrying, the people who pull his stringsQuote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Which, if you think about it, if you want the Brexit party to have most effect, the vote should be the other way around. The BP can do far less with a few MEPs than an elected government.Quote:
Originally Posted by WJ99mobile
Does anyone really want Farage and his mates to have any real power?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
Least of all him. He wants to be as far from the decision making as possible, as long as he's within shit throwing rangeQuote:
Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
He's demanded a say in the "negotiations" knowing full well he would never be allowed, even if there were any planned.
This fear of the "Marxist" Corbyn as a possible Prime Minister would carry far more weight if it wasn't for the fact that, almost always, the person expressing it is someone who seems perfectly happy for the current bunch of clowns who are judged to have made such a balls up of running the country over the past nine years by nearly all objective analysts. I'm biased, so I'm never going to praise a Conservative Government, but I think history will judge the ones led by David Cameron and Theresa May very harshly compared to other Tory ones and is there anyone in the list of contenders to become the new leader who has the gravitas to make people believe they can turn around the fortunes of a country, and party, that is seen by so many as a laughing stock now?Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
Yeah I’m no fan of Corbyn but I find it strange that the people most scared of him are Donald Trump’s biggest fanboys.
Around 5 milion nutcases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
This so called Brexit party has no members and is a Ltd company controlled by Farage and 2 of his cronies. All these donations, will end up keeping man of the people Farage, who banks with Coutts, in the lavish lifestyle that he enjoyed off the public's backs for years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
What I fail to understand, when there are so many questions about where is many comes from and his alleged links with Russia why he has never been investigated thoroughly by the authorities.
So you think Corbyn (the Venezuela fan) and John Macdonald are better options. I agree that the current government is laughable especially due to their BREXIT antics but I would trust even less the Marxist Corbyn who couldn't even run his family finances and whose answer to everything is to chuck money at it. As I see it the current lot are the least worst option but as a floating voter I always make up my mind at the time of an election and not routinely vote for the same Party as many do.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
What I do know is that if Corbyn and Co were removed Labour would win any future Election at a canter but with Momentum membership Corbyn is safe for as long as he wishes to remain as leader.
Floating voter lol. Any excuse not to vote Labour. Heard it all before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
Yes we could be doing better but I for one am looking forward to a Corbyn/McD Government after the years of austerity and mismanagement by the shower of shite that is the Tories.
Corbyn isn't a Marxist. I would be very relaxed if he was, but he isn't. He's a left social-democrat. A Bennite in 1980s speak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
The 2017 Labour Manifesto is a pretty good place to start and finish to understand Corbyn and Corbynism. He may have wanted to move the goalposts a little bit from that place, but not by much.
Unfortunately there aren't as many reds under the bed as the Daily Express and Chuka Umunna claim.
I was a card carrying member of the Labour Party for 27 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy corbyn
JC, you actually voted for a war criminal aka Blair. Why vote for Labour because 'ive always voted for them'. They are as bad as many politicians from all parties. Corbyn is the biggest communist you will see. Putins buddy 😂 As Peterboro was won by only a few votes, i think there should be another vote just like the remainers want for brexit 😉.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy corbyn
There will be another Peterborough vote within 3 years. It's called a General Election.Quote:
Originally Posted by Watamistakatomaka
What caused your opinion to change so much to make you sound like a Boris Johnson cheerleader?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
My mind changed when I realised belatedly that the Labour Party is about spending money the country hasn't got and leaving the country in a financial mess every time they leave office and I'm not talking about the 2008 crisis which went far wider than the UK. The final straw for me was when Corbyn and McDonald came to the forefront who couldn't even attract the confidence of decent and talented Labour members like Hilary Benn and Yvette Cooper. The rump that are left such as Rebecca Long Bailey, Dawn Butler and Diane Abbot are not up to running the country in my opinion as many of the decent MPs fail to support Corbyn for good reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy corbyn
For the record I can't stand Boris Johnson either so why you think I am a cheerleader for him is a wildly inaccurate assumption. My advice to you and others would be don't vote for a political party because you always have done as many people in Wales seem to vote Labour because that is how they have always voted.
The alternative to spending “too much” on public services is huge tax breaks for the super rich so that’s good at least.
It’s hardly like the tories have been servicing the national debt either is it?
Where do you stand on the current Tory government spending far more money than they've got? Chris Grayling alone is a "magic money tree". If you can point me to a Tory government surplus that doesn't involve selling off council houses, I'd love to see it, there hasn't been one since the Second World War.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
All governments spend more money than they have got - it's called a deficit which has reduced substantially under this government. Where there is a deficit, debt will always rise. Labour's spending plans will add substantially to both debt and deficit levels. Sadly there is no political Party that is able to equalise income and expenditure. Spend less (austerity) is bad from the public viewpoint, spending more is good until expenditure has to be funded and that can only happen through growth and tax cuts. When people have to pay for government spending via increased taxation there is opposition meaning governments can't win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
As I have repeatedly said I am not a supporter of any political Party but, as matters stand, I cannot support the Labour Party while Corbyn is in charge as his policies in my view, will bankrupt the country.
They’ve reduced the deficit but people have literally died because of austerity.
Do you think a reduced deficit is worth austerity?
Corbyn wouldn’t be my choice but the threats of “financial bankruptcy” we keep hearing about is better than the moral bankruptcy we currently have.
Look at everything that’s been lost because of austerity ffs, how can you care more about reducing the deficit than everything we’ve given up because of it.
I think the country is pretty well bankrupt, made worse by Tory austerity since 2010. If Cameron and Osborne had listened to Labour plans to spend on infrastructure back then the country would be in a far better place than it is now. The Corbyn McD plans, which would no doubt be watered down in the face of opposition from Tory business would at least give some hope to the many millions out there who are just getting by.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
Just to finish dislike of the EU didn't cause the the referendum result. Austerity did.
So, let me get this right. It's OK when the Tories are spending money, when their policies are driving people to poverty and have killed over 1m people but when Labour spend money to help these people, that's bad? :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
I'm not a Corbyn fan but Jesus Christ, I'd have him over a Tory Gov any day of the week.
How will privatising the railways help with austerity? Where have I said I care about reducing the deficit? What I have said and what I believe is that Labour's spending plans are excessive and unrealistic which in the end will probably mean less money for the NHS and helping the poor as the country will not have the funds to deal with things they would like to do. You will recall Labour's spending plans for the NHS involved spending less on the NHS than the Tories. I even went on to say that no government can come up with a set of policies that will be acceptable to the public but excessive spending on policies that appear at first sight to be popular have to be paid for and specifically mentioned that austerity was unacceptable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
As I seem to have been misquoted on a few occasions I shall not bother to reply to any further posts on this matter.
Wait so you think Labour are going to overspend but underspend on the NHS?
What has privatising the railways got to do with austerity?
So you think the poor will be worse off under a labour government than a tory government who are planning a tax cut for the very wealthy?
Anyone wanting to go back through my posting history on here will see that I'm not a fan of Jeremy Corbyn and, certainly since 2001, have hardly voted for his party as a matter of routine - my last vote less than a month ago was cast for the Green Party. However, what I would say is that I, and much of the country it seems, found myself being impressed by him when he was given the opportunity to put his views over directly, as opposed to having them "interpreted" by experts, pundits and various other people with an agenda in the print and broadcast media during the 2017 election campaign - so maybe I'm guilty of paying too much attention to those media voices?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
Also, I'm a little confused by what you say about the Labour Party considering that you were a member of it for twenty seven years. In particular, you come out with a common complaint made against the party when you say "the Labour Party is about spending money the country hasn't got and leaving the country in a financial mess every time they leave office". One of the problems I have with that when I read it is that the Labour Party has only been voted out of Government once in the last forty years and, as you, rightly in my view, acknowledge, they were hardly wholly responsible for what happened in 2008 that played a big part in their election defeat two years later.
So, I can only assume that your drift away from the party you were a member of for almost three decades was based on their election defeats in 1970 and 1979 and yet it's hard to see how and when your period as a Labour member fits in with that - it would appear that, unless you are old enough to have taken out a membership around the end of the Second World War, you did not let either of those defeats influence you at the time.
My opinion, for what it's worth, is that an awful lot of people had their heads turned during the "I, me, mine" decade (the 80s) and were taken in by the "economic miracle" credited to Margaret Thatcher's Government. I, on the other hand, see the deregulation of the banking and financial industries at the heart of said miracle as being the start of a process which led to what happened in 2008 and much of the subsequent hardship which stemmed from it - one thing which sustains me somewhat in the very turbulent times we live in is that there are signs that 80s style capitalism's chickens might just be coming home to roost.
Nice one Bob. Couldn't have put it better myself. Osborne himself has admitted in recent years that blaming Labour for everything went wrong in the financial crisis was a political strategy not based on truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
FWIW I reckon McD could turn out to be a very good chancellor with policies that work for the many,not the few (Sorry for that last soundbite).
Do you have any statistics to back this up? The reason I ask is that our national debt has generally always suffered more under Conservative governments. That can be proved statistically with this document. http://researchbriefings.files.parli...45/SN05745.pdfQuote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
Quite right Eric. Labour's economic record is far better than given credit for. Me thinks someone takes the Daily Mail, Sun, Express, Times etc etc too seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
The usual line is that Labour benefitted from a Tory economy while the Tories had to cope with dealing with a Labour economy. That isn't actually true if you look at the statistics. Look at the 2010 election for example. In opposition, the Tories backed Labour's spending plans, including the bank bailout. Even George Osborne in a recent interview with Andrew Neil admitted that he would have spent the same as Labour if the Conservatives had been in charge. Yet, come the election, they blame Labour overspending, not the bank bailout for the national debt. The media back this up and people believe Labour were reckless with the economy. The important thing to note is that independant organisations like the OBR, IFS, BoE etc have all dismissed the idea that Labour were reckless, only the right wing thinktanks (surprise surprise) peddled the idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy corbyn
so a police investigation is under way
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-48665324
It has a simalair ring to another caseQuote:
Originally Posted by MOZZER2
https://www.politicalite.com/peterbo...igures-reveal/