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M4 Relief Road in Newport....
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/p...ected-16368941
Looks like its going to be rejected.
Infrastructure in South Wales is mental. Daily commute for most is now becoming horrendous and almost gridlock.
What are the solutions when the buses and trains are so unreliable and overcrowded?
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Need to invest in rail sharpish. Time and time again, history shows that if you build more roads you just get more cars and even worse gridlock. Just look at LA. This is the best decision, but that money must be spent on improving public transport instead.
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Not a surprise. Drakeford was always going to reject.
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
The payback on the investment seems really really poor. If I was spending £1bn on something I would want a lot more than £2bn back over the 60 years that the study seems to be run over.
Chances are that the project cost would rise to £2bn then that is all of Wales' borrowing capacity used up for 60 years.
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Tories hate us as we don't vote for them, so lets prey we get a JC government , and hope he likes us ??.
Tell you who did like us , and funded us, it was Europe , they provided so many worthwhile rejuvenating projects over the years , sadly we don't like them ,well we did like the money , just not them .
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Tories hate us as we don't vote for them, so lets prey we get a JC government , and hope he likes us ??.
Tell you who did like us , and funded us, it was Europe , they provided so many worthwhile rejuvenating projects over the years , sadly we don't like them ,well we did like the money , just not them .
I would love to see a map showing UK Vs eu INFRASTRUCTURE spending in the UK per capita.
The only data like this I've seen , just represents total government spending which is Often dominated by day to day things like benefits, nothing that will actually develop the economy.
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
I would love to see a map showing UK Vs eu INFRASTRUCTURE spending in the UK per capita.
The only data like this I've seen , just represents total government spending which is Often dominated by day to day things like benefits, nothing that will actually develop the economy.
I'm sure you will find Wales was a net receiver and maybe NI followed by North East England ,Cornwall and Scotland ??
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-how-does-thi/
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Tories hate us as we don't vote for them, so lets prey we get a JC government , and hope he likes us ??.
Tell you who did like us , and funded us, it was Europe , they provided so many worthwhile rejuvenating projects over the years , sadly we don't like them ,well we did like the money , just not them .
er, and where did they get 'the money' from ? You weren't serious - were you ??
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
I was in Edinburgh and one of the signs at the castle made the point that during the Georgian times clever development of the city has had a lasting positive effect and has left modern day Scots with a rich (architecturally) capital. As much as I love Cardiff I have to question whether this period, the last 2 years or so, will be remembered in the same vein. It seems that all we get is ugly "student" accommodation and new office blocks right in the centre where it's very difficult to get to when instead, yes, we should be investing in public transport and spreading out the things people need to travel to. We seem to slowly be getting better trains but I'd argue we need a larger central train station, although difficult, more than we need a new road, especially if it's not the right road.
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
surge
I was in Edinburgh and one of the signs at the castle made the point that during the Georgian times clever development of the city has had a lasting positive effect and has left modern day Scots with a rich (architecturally) capital. As much as I love Cardiff I have to question whether this period, the last 2 years or so, will be remembered in the same vein. It seems that all we get is ugly "student" accommodation and new office blocks right in the centre where it's very difficult to get to when instead, yes, we should be investing in public transport and spreading out the things people need to travel to. We seem to slowly be getting better trains but I'd argue we need a larger central train station, although difficult, more than we need a new road, especially if it's not the right road.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDOI0cq6GZM
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
[QUOTE=Monster munch;4977664]https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/p...ected-16368941
Looks like its going to be rejected.
Infrastructure in South Wales is mental. Daily commute for most is now becoming horrendous and almost gridlock.
//
The traffic delays between the Coldra and Tredegar Park are a problem re personal and business journeys.
A solution has to be found as the problem will not go away.
£2b is nothing compared with the £60+b on HS2. Spending money on Public transport is unlikely imo to have a big impact on the problem
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
A Quiet Monkfish
er, and where did they get 'the money' from ? You weren't serious - were you ??
From all of the UK , we were a net receiver of funds.
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
They should just build a bridge or barrage over the Severn connecting Cardiff and Bristol. Power for all, no more traffic. 20 mins from one centre to other. Happy days
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
They should just build a bridge or barrage over the Severn connecting Cardiff and Bristol. Power for all, no more traffic. 20 mins from one centre to other. Happy days
That would be brilliant
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
They should just build a bridge or barrage over the Severn connecting Cardiff and Bristol. Power for all, no more traffic. 20 mins from one centre to other. Happy days
Great for online dating too.
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Tories hate us as we don't vote for them, so lets prey we get a JC government , and hope he likes us ??.
Tell you who did like us , and funded us, it was Europe , they provided so many worthwhile rejuvenating projects over the years , sadly we don't like them ,well we did like the money , just not them .
Not really relevant to this thread, but I'm having an eligibility survey done under this scheme
http://arbedambyth.wales/
this morning, guess who is responsible for most of its funding?
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tomm
Need to invest in rail sharpish. Time and time again, history shows that if you build more roads you just get more cars and even worse gridlock. Just look at LA. This is the best decision, but that money must be spent on improving public transport instead.
Rail infrastructure isn't devolved is it? Isn't that why the electrification has been cancelled, because it's a Westminster decision?
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
And they are going to spend just under a £1b on the heads of the valley, sooner the better we get rid of the useless wag!
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
A Quiet Monkfish
er, and where did they get 'the money' from ? You weren't serious - were you ??
According to my tax notice I paid £79 in European funding last year. That's just over 21p a day. Starngely enough, the EU's investment in Wales last year was - £79 per person. So I paid 21p a day to be invested in Wales. Well worth it. Compare that with the investment in Wales from Westminster last year - Rail Electrification (Canceled), Swansea Barage (Refused) . But Welsh taxes spent on Cross Rai and HS2 which will bring huge economic benefits to Wales (not).
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Igovernor
And they are going to spend just under a £1b on the heads of the valley, sooner the better we get rid of the useless wag!
Match funded by the EU. Nothing from Westminster. You want to get rid of WAG and leave all investment to Westminster? We're already fcuked by Westminster, it's the WAG that ensures some of our taxes are re-invested in Wales. It's Westminster we need to get rid of.
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
From all of the UK , we were a net receiver of funds.
On Mars maybe, but there isn't a political party or organization that doesn't accept the complete opposite :
The UK pays more into the EU budget than it gets back.
In 2017 the UK government paid £13 billion to the EU budget, and EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4 billion. So the UK’s ‘net contribution’ was estimated at nearly £9 billion.
Each year the UK gets a discount on its contributions to the EU—the ‘rebate’—worth about £5.6 billion last year. Without it the UK would have been liable for £18.6 billion in contributions
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Not really relevant to this thread, but I'm having an eligibility survey done under this scheme
http://arbedambyth.wales/
this morning, guess who is responsible for most of its funding?
British taxpayers. I don't know anyone thinks the 'EU' funds projects. The EU doesn't have any money, it all comes from contributions from National governments...
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Harry Monk
Rail infrastructure isn't devolved is it? Isn't that why the electrification has been cancelled, because it's a Westminster decision?
Yep. That's a major problem. Wales will never be able to sort its problems under current arrangements.
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
A Quiet Monkfish
British taxpayers. I don't know anyone thinks the 'EU' funds projects. The EU doesn't have any money, it all comes from contributions from National governments...
That should mean that I would be getting this done by the UK Government if/when we leave the EU then, that's the Government which has been banging on about the need for austerity for the best part of the last decade.
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
I was well up for this bypass until I looked into the details
No government is going to approve a scheme that costs £1bn and would take 30+ years to break even.
So many better ways of investing that kind of money that will pay back many times more than that.
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
I worked in Bristol for three years and it is an absolute nightmare, then I would have wanted the road built at any cost.
Now I work there occsionally once a week at most, and I can travel avoiding peak times, and I am happy for it not to be built, as it sounds a lot of money for what it is.
Like everything it's very important for the minority but they will feel very let down and annoyed if the improvements are not to go ahead.
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
They should just build a bridge or barrage over the Severn connecting Cardiff and Bristol. Power for all, no more traffic. 20 mins from one centre to other. Happy days
That would be a great solution, maybe one day it will happen, more for the natural power I would imagine rather than allowing cars easy access, maybe a direct rail link back and fore?
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
A Quiet Monkfish
On Mars maybe, but there isn't a political party or organization that doesn't accept the complete opposite :
The UK pays more into the EU budget than it gets back.
In 2017 the UK government paid £13 billion to the EU budget, and EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4 billion. So the UK’s ‘net contribution’ was estimated at nearly £9 billion.
Each year the UK gets a discount on its contributions to the EU—the ‘rebate’—worth about £5.6 billion last year. Without it the UK would have been liable for £18.6 billion in contributions
So, for each pound spent on membership of the European Union, roughly how much is that worth to the British economy in terms of having a free trade deal with the EU? Why do you think prosperous countries like Switzerland and Norway, while choosing not to be members of the EU, are happy to part with lots of wonga to have good trade deals with the EU? Not even Norway and Switzerland think it's a good idea to have a complete break from the EU and no trade deals.
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
That should mean that I would be getting this done by the UK Government if/when we leave the EU then, that's the Government which has been banging on about the need for austerity for the best part of the last decade.
That is also the Government that has flatly refused to match EU funding in poorer areas of the UK.
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Scheme has been scrapped by Drakeford.
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
The number of crashes and road rage incesnts on the stretch from St Mellons to the bridge is unbelievable, people are so stressed trying to get to work it's unbelievable, it will only get worse!
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
From what I have heard today it implies that the road would go right through the heart of the wetlands but looking at the map of the proposed development (link: http://www.m4newport.com/assets/pref...ntext-plan.pdf) it does nothing of the kind - it skirts the northern edge of the wetlands and a significant chunk of the route is not in the wetland area at all.
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
I’ve always been of the opinion that simply only allowing lorries to travel at night would solve a large portion of the problem.
Also allowing undertaking as in America , thus reducing the need for lane hopping and a sensible speed limit strictly informed to allow steady flow of traffic.
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fine Lines
I’ve always been of the opinion that simply only allowing lorries to travel at night would solve a large portion of the problem.
Also allowing undertaking as in America , thus reducing the need for lane hopping and a sensible speed limit strictly informed to allow steady flow of traffic.
I love the undertaking rule in America, I simply perch myself in a lane set cruise control to match car in front and off you go. I remember doing a 7 hour stretch once without having to touch pedals or change lane, was bliss
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chris lee
I love the undertaking rule in America, I simply perch myself in a lane set cruise control to match car in front and off you go. I remember doing a 7 hour stretch once without having to touch pedals or change lane, was bliss
Exactly. Once adapative cruise control becomes the norm or even driverless cars , then the problem will solve itself. It’s not the number of cars on the road. It’s the way they are driven.
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fine Lines
Exactly. Once adapative cruise control becomes the norm or even driverless cars , then the problem will solve itself. It’s not the number of cars on the road. It’s the way they are driven.
The, sometimes, petty restrictions aren’t helpful either. 50mph at 2am on an empty motorway for example, ridiculous.
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-w...itics-48498713
The first minister is a fecking idiot.
His only reason for not going ahead was because of the environmental impact.
What does he think having hours of gridlock will do to the environment?
If he had made up his mind, without taking into account the findings of the enquiry, why spend £44 million on the enquiry?
Why not have a couple of meetings with some intelligent people at a cost of around £10,000 to decide what other possible alternatives are there, if he's dead set against the proposal that he's scrapped.
The man is a complete and utter idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JDerrida
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-w...itics-48498713
The first minister is a fecking idiot.
His only reason for not going ahead was because of the environmental impact.
What does he think having hours of gridlock will do to the environment?
If he had made up his mind, without taking into account the findings of the enquiry, why spend £44 million on the enquiry?
Why not have a couple of meetings with some intelligent people at a cost of around £10,000 to decide what other possible alternatives are there, if he's dead set against the proposal that he's scrapped.
The man is a complete and utter idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!
If the economic impact studies I've seen are correct then it is absolutely the right call not to proceed with the plan.
For £1bn (which could easily rise) it predicted it would bring an extra £30million a year into the economy (of which £24 million in Wales). It just isn't worth it.
There must be many more projects that could pay back much better than that.
An easier and simpler solution would be to close some of the motorway on ramps at junctions 25, 26 and 27, to prevent local traffic from using the motorway. At the moment people going from one side of Newport to the other nip onto the M4 and off again 1 junction later. This is the cause of much of the congestion.
It is ridiculous that a town the size of Newport has like 5 junctions.
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
A Quiet Monkfish
On Mars maybe, but there isn't a political party or organization that doesn't accept the complete opposite :
The UK pays more into the EU budget than it gets back.
In 2017 the UK government paid £13 billion to the EU budget, and EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4 billion. So the UK’s ‘net contribution’ was estimated at nearly £9 billion.
Each year the UK gets a discount on its contributions to the EU—the ‘rebate’—worth about £5.6 billion last year. Without it the UK would have been liable for £18.6 billion in contributions
Though I wouldn't dispute what you say but that vision of Boris and that big red bus comes to mind.Would the UK government match the EU spending on Wales and other deprived areas of the UK.Who knows the future but history tells you it wouldn't.And of course your statement does not take into account the billions in trading profits this country currently enjoys let alone the tax revenue as well.Much,much more than your 9b net contribution.
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Re: M4 Relief Road in Newport....
Just a few ideas they could consider
Reduce or get rid of the ridiculously long filter lanes which only encourage bad driving with people cutting back in.
Put average speed cameras in covering before the Coldra to after Junction 28, set at 60.
Reduce the number of junctions
Encourage more use of the southern distributor
Make the existing motorway 3 lanes as much as possible (dont know if a widening of the Brynglas tunnels is at all possible?)
Install train stations at Celtic Springs and near the Stats office