http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footba...orlds-10911949
Cruyff would be turning in his grave at some of the shit being out out there in recent years.
People who try to make football an objective science miss the point in my opinion.
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footba...orlds-10911949
Cruyff would be turning in his grave at some of the shit being out out there in recent years.
People who try to make football an objective science miss the point in my opinion.
Who pays for this research id like to know?
A load of shite.
Wages/transfer fees are astronomical in football and the same thing is spouted every transfer window.
Messi is worth every penny of what he gets paid, he is an unbelievable player, the best I've ever seen.
I've read some crap in my time but that really takes the biscuit. Paco Alcacer and Xhaka are lucky to be at big clubs, let alone being underpaid.
Players like Messi, Iniesta and (through gritted teeth) Ronaldo will unfortunately only really be appreciated when they're retired.
In the case of Messi, has anyone seen the Magical Messi programme on sky catchup?
Absolutely incredible!
He must be the best ever.
You think that's bad science.
This is genuine, not a piss take..only in America.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USc28xo0K-A
The article isn't saying that Messi isn't one of the greatest players in the world.
It is saying that they've calculated that in terms of what he does on the pitch he's worth ~ 200k per week to his club, and he gets double that.
None of the other players mentioned get close to a calculated value of 200k so clearly he's an amazing player.
Where this model falls down is it doesn't consider the commercial side of the game.
Messi is one of the most marketable assets in the game.
You want to see the best player in the world - you watch Barcelona.
You want to wear the best players kit - you buy a Barcelona shirt.
If players were anonymous and their faces pixelated so nobody knew who was who then maybe Messi would be overpaid, but when you consider the other revenues that he generates then perhaps not.
Also some of the overpaid players on there are guys at the end of their career, who's output may be starting to drop off. Which is probably accurate that they are overpaid now, but with some of these players, if you want to have them at their peak you have to accept that you'll be overpaying them in 2 or 3 years time.
It falls down when it says Granit Xhaka is the 2nd most underpaid player when he earns more than 100k a week. It's complete guff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
It falls down on every level. We interpret football wrong in my opinion if it's wholly based on stats.
Cruyff consistently said that he wouldn't swap the way Holland played in 74 even if it won them the World Cup.
You will probably disagree with that but i believe football is an art and a form of entertainment. That was one of the reasons i was so disgusted by Slade's "brand" of football.
Messi is a football genius and he does so much more than score goals or assist.
He opens space, and controls the game. It will be a dark day when he retires.
You have a very british or american way of interpreting the game that involves no subjectivity or joy but just data data data.
I can see your point thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
Not at all, I prefer my football to be entertaining rather than functional, and I'd be happier with a buccaneering attacking side that finish mid table than a dour Russell Slade style team that finish higher up.Quote:
Originally Posted by thehumblegringo
An appreciation of the stats side of sports doesn't mean you don't appreciate the artistry or individual genius that also is a part of it. If anything I would say it enhances it.
I can understand this article though - even the best player of all time will have a point where they are overpaid if you continue to increase their salary.
There is a finite pool of money you can win as a club so even the most influential players will have a limit to how much their worth is.
In reality though it is impossible to be perfectly accurate with these things, and it ignores the commercial side of football, which is a massive consideration for players like messi (less so for players like xhaka)
But the flaw in all that is that Messi and Ronaldo are leagues ahead of anyone else in the game. If someone like Paul Pogba or Wayne Rooney is getting half as much as these two then it's scandalous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
People will be talking about Messi in 50 years time whilst people will hardly know who Pogba is.
I wouldn't say it's a flaw. Clubs make offers to get the players to sign for them, not follow an ability/salary ratio.Quote:
Originally Posted by thehumblegringo
Well that certainly hasnt been taking into account the calculations, therefore its flawed.Quote:
Originally Posted by lardy
I assumed gringo meant the flaw in rjks post, not the article. Could be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by J R Hartley
It was a response to RJK in the context of the articleQuote:
Originally Posted by lardy
In the article there isn't anyone whos calculated wage is even close to half what they have calculated Messi "should" be getting from a purely football sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by thehumblegringo
So that would appear to agree with your opinions.
Given that it is based on outputs too I cannot imagine that Wayne Rooney's calculated wage will be that high either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
If we look at it logically of course Messi is overpaid (as is every footballer in the premier league) however I'd rather see Messi earn £1 million a week than someone like Giroud earn 100k.
Messi is a one off, a Michael Jordan or Muhammed Ali and what he's given to football surpasses what he's taken out in my opinion, so if anyone 'deserves' to earn obscene amounts of money out of the game it's him.
Another stupid article today is that the "super computer" has said we'll come 14th this season.
I'd bet willing to put a wager on with the "super computer" that we'll finish higher than 14th.
Its a subjective article, at this point they are feeding a bunch of data into a computer and laying it out for debate. Its impossible for that data to be correct because season itself will include a lot of variables that the statistical model will not include.Quote:
Originally Posted by thehumblegringo
With the wages/output model it encourages debate that for all his skill, his output data in this model makes him overpaid, and other player produces a fraction of his output, for a lower wage. The analysis is then he is under paid.
Whether the article is correct or not it stimulates debate. Then is that in itself worthwhile.
Adrian Durham stimulates debate every afternoon yet he talks shit. Same as this super computer and the 'scientists' that claim messi is the most overpaid player in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by qccfc
Adrian Durham needs to encourage phone calls into his programme.Quote:
Originally Posted by thehumblegringo
I think both of these articles are valid and interesting, i dont agree with their outcomes, but is better than some of blog type pieces i have read on Walesonline. Then on this thread i think your counter points are valid, and a viewpoint more similar to my own. It doesnt mean the original source is rubbish.