-
Why are attendances so poor?
I know this has been done to death, but i was quite shocked how poor our attendance was compared with others Saturday. In fact there was only 1 lower than us. I despair at finding the reasons behind this and in a way does it really matter given that tv money is keeping football afloat?
Has anybody out there got a crystal ball? There must be a reason.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
2 and a half dire seasons of football with OGS/Slade/Trollope is enough to put anyone off.
People are probably waiting until the new year to see if we can maintain our position.
Half season tickets will probably sell quite well come December.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
Maybe the squeeze on living standards as well. I think people underestimate no wage growth and higher prices. I know we aren't the most expensive but I think times are pretty hard for loads of folks and families. Football doesnt keep you warm or fed. Would explain some by but no means all of people who haven't gone.. I have only been a few times this year so far for different reasons. Life gets in the way sometimes. Again only explains a small number of people like me. I suppose all these small numbers add up. I agree/hope that crowds will increase in the new year. I
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
Having the egg clashing with the football didn"t help.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
The cost of football midweek with wales,people watching the rugby with kids as there was a family day there or so I am told.The international break and lack of home games is also breaking the continuity of fans.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
Been getting mine week by week for me and my daughter. Truth is work could quiet down for a few weeks now plus I'll need a bit of time off over Xmas so it's all about keeping money in the pot unfortunately. Plan is to get a half season ticket as I missed out on a full one as I was switching jobs and hesitated to get one until I knew the new one would be ok.
A mate of mine has got a season ticket and hasn't managed 5 games all year (I know he gets included in the total but doesn't help with the already small looking crowd)
I know people that don't go because their missus has changed shift and work weekends etc and others that have simply been spending more time with the family.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
All these things are valid but it still doesnt explain why our are so much worse than everyone else.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jeremy corbyn
All these things are valid but it still doesnt explain why our are so much worse than everyone else.
Well there is one thing that the club has experienced that others haven't .... but I am not going to mention it.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
Well there is one thing that the club has experienced that others haven't .... but I am not going to mention it.
I think you'll find others have relegated from the Prem.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
They’d love you over ****. All you do is fvckin moan.
Our average is just under 20,000. 13th best in the division so they are not so much worse than everyonelse.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
Me moan. You obviously dont read my posts. This was a genuine question which has never, in my mind, been answered. And no, the rebrand has only had a marginal effect now. The reasons go far longer and deeper.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
The answer is we have a significant number of fans who turn up when at highest level / playing someone like a Leeds.
If we look like we'll go up around Christmas, half STs will be sold as people secure what they hope will be cheap Prem games. Lose the next six, you'll not see them.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jeremy corbyn
Me moan. You obviously dont read my posts. This was a genuine question which has never, in my mind, been answered. And no, the rebrand has only had a marginal effect now. The reasons go far longer and deeper.
As you said in your opening post, it’s been done to death.
You’re just peddling negativity as per usual.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
The Cardiff metropolitan area makes up over a third of the total population of Wales, with a 2016 population estimate of about 1,100,000 people - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff.
Saturday's 16,000 attendance = 1.5% of 1.1m. Expressed a different way = abject.
The club can't flog nearly enough season tickets, hence it's too embarrassed to publish the total number sold.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Organ Morgan.
The Cardiff metropolitan area makes up over a third of the total population of Wales, with a 2016 population estimate of about 1,100,000 people -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff.
Saturday's 16,000 attendance = 1.5% of 1.1m. Expressed a different way = abject.
The club can't flog nearly enough season tickets, hence it's too embarrassed to publish the total number sold.
Exactly. Attendances are appalling but why? As someone else pointed out they will turn up for 'glamour' games but not for others. I think this has always been true. Does the egg have a big effect on the mentality of people in this part of Wales, not just on internationsl days but other times too?
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
On the bright side I can remember when there was 2000 in Ninian park. I don't remember anybodyasking why though cause the football was shite.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
headlight
Having the egg clashing with the football didn"t help.
It probably knocked 1-2000 of the gate on Saturday but generally speaking it’s down to a combination of things.
After promotion in 2003 we were on an almost constant upwards trajectory for years, successive Wembley appearances boosting season ticket sales culminating in promotion.
That momentum was lost for a while, add to that the unwatchable football under Slade and of course the R word.
The good crowds we were getting didn’t improve overnight, and once fans have gone it takes a while to get them back.
I’d prefer there to be bigger crowds, and it’s dissppointing that more aren’t turning up, I feel this manager and this team deserve better, but I’m enjoying watching the City now more than I have for about six years.
If we’re still in the top six in a few months I’m sure crowds will steadily rise as people worry about potentially needing a season ticket for the top flight.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Organ Morgan.
The Cardiff metropolitan area makes up over a third of the total population of Wales, with a 2016 population estimate of about 1,100,000 people -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff.
Saturday's 16,000 attendance = 1.5% of 1.1m. Expressed a different way = abject.
The club can't flog nearly enough season tickets, hence it's too embarrassed to publish the total number sold.
It has been done to death but the rebrand killed a lot of the "magic"
We were plucky Cardiff, a Welsh team in an English league, battling our way up the leagues, always dreaming of the promised land.
We gained some momentum with promotions with Hammam then the Dave Jones years , knocking on the door. Then finally we crashed through but with an owner who made sure at the time that we knew it was his club not ours by changing the colour of the shirts to what he wanted. The Premier league was a disaster, people turned up to see us play in the premier league but with little affinity for the club. We didn't have the emotional attachment after promotion that say Huddersfield or Bournemouth or even the Jack's had. The rebrand made it feel somehow we bought our way up ( which I know that is what a lot of clubs do, including Wolves this season)
We lost loyal fans because of the rebrand, we lost the casual support when we were relegated and we lost even more with dire football under Slade.
Now should be good times under Warnock, the team on the pitch are certainly worthy of our support with the effort they put in every game but for a lot of people that emotional connection with the club has gone
Whereas before I would arrange my whole social calendar around Cardiff games if it clashes with something I now think, oh well, I can skip the City game today.
I have a good mate who is a Bolton fan who always said enjoy the journey as it's the best part because once you get there it's not all it's cracked up to be and he was right.
Don't get me wrong I would be delighted to see this team win promotion, it will feel much different than the previous one. I'm just trying to explain that I think a lot of people lost that " I can't miss any City game" during the rebrand and the subsequent seasons.
I stillhope it will return at some point
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Don Corleone
It has been done to death but the rebrand killed a lot of the "magic"
We were plucky Cardiff, a Welsh team in an English league, battling our way up the leagues, always dreaming of the promised land.
We gained some momentum with promotions with Hammam then the Dave Jones years , knocking on the door. Then finally we crashed through but with an owner who made sure at the time that we knew it was his club not ours by changing the colour of the shirts to what he wanted. The Premier league was a disaster, people turned up to see us play in the premier league but with little affinity for the club. We didn't have the emotional attachment after promotion that say Huddersfield or Bournemouth or even the Jack's had. The rebrand made it feel somehow we bought our way up ( which I know that is what a lot of clubs do, including Wolves this season)
We lost loyal fans because of the rebrand, we lost the casual support when we were relegated and we lost even more with dire football under Slade.
Now should be good times under Warnock, the team on the pitch are certainly worthy of our support with the effort they put in every game but for a lot of people that emotional connection with the club has gone
Whereas before I would arrange my whole social calendar around Cardiff games if it clashes with something I now think, oh well, I can skip the City game today.
I have a good mate who is a Bolton fan who always said enjoy the journey as it's the best part because once you get there it's not all it's cracked up to be and he was right.
Don't get me wrong I would be delighted to see this team win promotion, it will feel much different than the previous one. I'm just trying to explain that I think a lot of people lost that " I can't miss any City game" during the rebrand and the subsequent seasons.
I stillhope it will return at some point
What you say makes absolute sense and all these things are factors in our recent history. I still cant help feeling that there is an even bigger malaise. With our catchment area we should be doing better.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ccfc_is_my_life
The answer is we have a significant number of fans who turn up when at highest level / playing someone like a Leeds.
If we look like we'll go up around Christmas, half STs will be sold as people secure what they hope will be cheap Prem games. Lose the next six, you'll not see them.
I'm not overly excited about the premier league. Didn't go to a single game first time we were up and I probably could have if I'd tried for tickets, as many people when they saw us losing week in week out weren't arsed unless it was top 5 teams. Be an experience to see them play at ccs I suppose but not a reason I'd rush to get a half ST. I know plenty will...
Most people I know say the games in our division are a better watch.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jeremy corbyn
What you say makes absolute sense and all these things are factors in our recent history. I still cant help feeling that there is an even bigger malaise. With our catchment area we should be doing better.
Was posted the other week in another done to death thread that we average a bigger percentage of support from our catchment area than the mighty Leeds.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
This has absolutely nothing to do with the so-called "rebrand" . I have followed City for 52 years and we have one of the most fickle followings in British football.
16,000 after a couple of dodgy results, with rugby on the same day is pretty good, particularly if you also take the crap weekend weather into consideration.
Those sitting on the fence have yet to be convinced that City are going to do great things this season and, until they are, we are unlikely to see 20,000+ crowds.
A good run from here until the New Year will see quite a few more bums on seats in 2018. This is nothing new.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
Whomever posted the Leeds metro population number omitted to mention it includes Bradford so that club's average attendance should be added to Leeds'.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TDA
This has absolutely nothing to do with the so-called "rebrand" . I have followed City for 52 years and we have one of the most fickle followings in British football.
16,000 after a couple of dodgy results, with rugby on the same day is pretty good, particularly if you also take the crap weekend weather into consideration.
Those sitting on the fence have yet to be convinced that City are going to do great things this season and, until they are, we are unlikely to see 20,000+ crowds.
A good run from here until the New Year will see quite a few more bums on seats in 2018. This is nothing new.
As I implied, not enough season tickets have been purchased. That's at the heart of the poor crowds. If 20,000 had been sold then last Saturday's attendance would have been in excess of 20,000 as would every other game regardless of however many physically attend. Slash the ST prices by a third.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TDA
This has absolutely nothing to do with the so-called "rebrand" . I have followed City for 52 years and we have one of the most fickle followings in British football.
16,000 after a couple of dodgy results, with rugby on the same day is pretty good, particularly if you also take the crap weekend weather into consideration.
Those sitting on the fence have yet to be convinced that City are going to do great things this season and, until they are, we are unlikely to see 20,000+ crowds.
A good run from here until the New Year will see quite a few more bums on seats in 2018. This is nothing new.
You are right. I've followed the bluebirds 50 odd years and crowds go up and down. There is certainly not the passion for football generally that you get in other parts. Perhaps the egg has something to do with it. All Welshmen are supposted to be fanatics.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Organ Morgan.
As I implied, not enough season tickets have been purchased. That's at the heart of the poor crowds. If 20,000 had been sold then last Saturday's attendance would have been in excess of 20,000 as would every other game regardless of however many physically attend. Slash the ST prices by a third.
Not enough fans have bought into the reincarnation of Cardiff City yet.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jeremy corbyn
You are right. I've followed the bluebirds 50 odd years and crowds go up and down. There is certainly not the passion for football generally that you get in other parts. Perhaps the egg has something to do with it. All Welshmen are supposted to be fanatics.
Also so many false dawns with Cardiff City over the years. There is an unrivaled fan base there, it just needs reassuring that the club isn't going to do a Cardiff.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
It’s a long season. If you are top two/three by March time the attendances will definitely pick up.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Organ Morgan.
Whomever posted the Leeds metro population number omitted to mention it includes Bradford so that club's average attendance should be added to Leeds'.
I don't remember the post.I thought it was just Leeds and not the metro area.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Don Corleone
It has been done to death but the rebrand killed a lot of the "magic"
We were plucky Cardiff, a Welsh team in an English league, battling our way up the leagues, always dreaming of the promised land.
We gained some momentum with promotions with Hammam then the Dave Jones years , knocking on the door. Then finally we crashed through but with an owner who made sure at the time that we knew it was his club not ours by changing the colour of the shirts to what he wanted. The Premier league was a disaster, people turned up to see us play in the premier league but with little affinity for the club. We didn't have the emotional attachment after promotion that say Huddersfield or Bournemouth or even the Jack's had. The rebrand made it feel somehow we bought our way up ( which I know that is what a lot of clubs do, including Wolves this season)
We lost loyal fans because of the rebrand, we lost the casual support when we were relegated and we lost even more with dire football under Slade.
Now should be good times under Warnock, the team on the pitch are certainly worthy of our support with the effort they put in every game but for a lot of people that emotional connection with the club has gone
Whereas before I would arrange my whole social calendar around Cardiff games if it clashes with something I now think, oh well, I can skip the City game today.
I have a good mate who is a Bolton fan who always said enjoy the journey as it's the best part because once you get there it's not all it's cracked up to be and he was right.
Don't get me wrong I would be delighted to see this team win promotion, it will feel much different than the previous one. I'm just trying to explain that I think a lot of people lost that " I can't miss any City game" during the rebrand and the subsequent seasons.
I stillhope it will return at some point
Good point on the us and them mentality.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
There's not one encapsulating reason; probably everything said in this thread is relevant. South Wales has been a glory hunting area for as long as I can remember. Look at Newport - a town bigger than Norwich but relatively few are interested in County.
I still think the rebrand has been underestimated in all this. It changed the perception of the club for many; Tan said the opinions of 25% of 'customers' were irrelevant, a number that would've included fans from the dungeon days.
There was a tweet the other day that said an adult ticket in 1980 was £1.30 and allowing for inflation the same ticket should now cost £5.12. But the cheapest ticket today is £18, and most of the time it isn't worth it.
Which brings me to the thing that's usually overlooked in these discussions - football is generally rubbish. No amount of 'loyalty' and 'passion' and marketing can change the fact that deep down we want something for that (minimum) £18, especially as we're all customers now.
There's a good podcast out called Quickly Kevin, about '90s football. They had the comedian James Acaster on the other week talking about how he used to follow Man U but the narrative ended in '99 with the treble. That was the end of the movie for him, then he gave it up. They also quoted Jack Dee who said he used to like football but stopped because he realised 'it just never ends'. Football can be such an omnipresent and dreary routine and it's always there. And yet we're told more and more that it's vital and important.
I didn't go last year but even observing from afar it was interminable. What kind of narrative is that? 46 games and most of that time wished away and waiting for next year. Why are we told the next game is vital when there are 6 months of the season still to play? The storyline we once viewed as the greatest story ever told has become Eastenders (although Home and Away might be more apt).
I've been to a couple of DVP games this year and I went to Devon to see a friendly because that's my kind of narrative now. The churning Championship is not. Neither is the Premier League cabal.
Perhaps this is unique to me or I'm a miserable middle aged man and that one day the bug will come back. But for now the narrative, laden with routine, hack marketing, the over-riding impression we're being sold a pup, the cultivated image of the club and the overall football landscape is not worth the time and money. Maybe we all know football is generally rubbish and sometimes circumstances combine to mine that into daylight.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
What fecks me off is if by some miracle we do go up the same tossers who jumped on the bandwagon before will rock up to see Manu and liverpool again.
Feck the premier league i say.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
Our support is shocking
No excuses
When we sell players if we don't get promoted then you will have the usual bullshit trotted out
Plymouth are bottom of the league and had 10000 on Saturday
We are third in the championship and can't even get 20000
It's pathetic
The support from the people of Cardiff and south Wales for this football club is terrible ........I can't think of another club with our catchment area with such poor attendances
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Our support is shocking
No excuses
When we sell players if we don't get promoted then you will have the usual bullshit trotted out
Plymouth are bottom of the league and had 10000 on Saturday
We are third in the championship and can't even get 20000
It's pathetic
The support from the people of Cardiff and south Wales for this football club is terrible ........I can't think of another club with our catchment area with such poor attendances
Aye we know sludge. You've mentioned it before a few times :)
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
insider
What fecks me off is if by some miracle we do go up the same tossers who jumped on the bandwagon before will rock up to see Manu and liverpool again.
Feck the premier league i say.
This. Although “tossers” is a bit harsh. At some point we were all new fans. The tricks is getting them to keep going, and the best way to do that is stay up this time.
Rest assured, if we did make the play off final, the queue for tickets will stretch back to Asda’s
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
lets be honest, we have always had fairly fickle fans, even back to the early 90's when we were on a high with Eddie May's team, we had a storming season and were getting good crowds, 15 K plus in the 3rd Div ( last Div ) was great, then we went up and struggled and the crowds fell of a cliff
its nothing new, we might have 15 K hard core fans now, no point in knocking the few extra who turn up for the odd game
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TH63
This. Although “tossers” is a bit harsh. At some point we were all new fans. The tricks is getting them to keep going, and the best way to do that is stay up this time.
Rest assured, if we did make the play off final, the queue for tickets will stretch back to Asda’s
A few people in my local think that Cardiff fans have a bit of a bad attitude. You are correct in your assessment of calling people tossers. We are criticised by quite a few...at the end of the day people can support Liverpool and United if they want..i think a lot of Cardiff fans need to get over that.
In my few locals there are fans of forest, leicester, leeds, aston villa, newcastle, chelsea, QPR, Liverpool, arsenal, spurs, man united...possibly missed a few.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
It’s often been said on here there’s a theory that once you start to find reasons not to go to a game, then it becomes very easy to kick the habit all together.
After 39 years as a regular supporter I gave up my season ticket at the end of last season mainly because increasingly there are fewer and fewer Saturday afternoon games – the only time I can get to a home match. Basically it was a waste of money, combined with the cost of getting to/from the ground (100 miles each way). I was gutted really, but I bought a Flexi-ticket hoping to get to a few games at least. However I have found that the afore-mentioned theory is correct in my case – previously it would have been unthinkable to miss a game that I could get to, but now I find that there are other priorities and I am not missing the “buzz” at all. In fact the first time I will use my Flexiticket will be on Boxing Day because I will be on holiday near Cardiff!
Could this be the reason why many others have given up going regularly? The root cause may be different e.g. travel costs, the rebrand, the Slade factor or whatever, but the result is the same.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
A factor not mentioned on this thread is that there's just too much football on TV these days. Four Premier League games at the weekend, European Cup games many weeks on Tuesday and Wednesday and lower league games as well.
I've had a surfeit of it and pick the live TV games I really want to watch. Most weeks I don't even want to watch MotD.
The less committed football fan may simply prefer to watch the best games on TV rather than suffer the rain and the wind and the cold we endured last Saturday.
-
Re: Why are attendances so poor?
Our average is 19k the leagues average is 20k .