So today is the day some vote for another ten years of Tory rule
Is there any chance of Owen winning? As much as I prefer Corbyn to any recent labour leader. I cant see the general public voting for him. With Lib dem failing to grasp this opportunity it will leave us with an uncontested Tory rule, probably with a UKIP shadow government.
Re: So today is the day some vote for another ten years of Tory rule
I admire Corbyn for his principles but quiet a few Labour voters on here and friends I talk to say they can't see themselves voting for him.
He's a shoein for today but in the general election terms I can't see him getting anywhere near what they need too.
Re: So today is the day some vote for another ten years of Tory rule
Holy moly did you really just say you think ukip will be the second biggest party at the next election??
Re: So today is the day some vote for another ten years of Tory rule
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Originally Posted by
TruBlue
I admire Corbyn for his principles but quiet a few Labour voters on here and friends I talk to say they can't see themselves voting for him.
He's a shoein for today but in the general election terms I can't see him getting anywhere near what they need too.
This^^^
I think he'd probably a good mp for his constituents and like a god few others was right to vote against Iraq war.
However he isn't appealing to the public, he won't win a general election.
And Is dosent take a Zionist mainstream media poodle to work that one out 😃
Re: So today is the day some vote for another ten years of Tory rule
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Originally Posted by
ninianclark
Corbyn is an idealist - aka a dreamer, which is fine , but being that isnt the same as being PM.
He will win the Labour leadership election, that will result in the formation of a new centre left leaning party - consisting of Lib Dems / ex Labour MPs
Lib Dems have feck all MPs, so will Labour at the next election, so they might as well call it quits and start something new.
I agree with the sentiment of what you're saying. I'm not sure the formation of a new party will happen though, if even I think a re-brand could be healthy. If it were, then it would essentially be the Lib Dems re-packaged. Will the career politicians in the Labour party jump ship though?
I would say the smart play in any such re-branding would be to establish the given party as "centralists" rather than "centre-left". The centre ground is where the votes, power and will of many people lie anyway. Appeal to both sides of the spectrum. Avoid loony left big government and avoid neo con tendencies of the loony right.
Re: So today is the day some vote for another ten years of Tory rule
Want Corbyn to win despite his faults. Would like him to push for de-selection of disloyal members of the PLP immediately and politically realign the party to represent the membership. Not convinced he will though. His inclination towards reconciliation will be his downfall. If he isn’t ruthless now we will be back in this position in a year's time and Labour really will be regarded by the electorate as a joke.
Re: So today is the day some vote for another ten years of Tory rule
There's a way we in Wales can avoid this Tory rule. Perhaps it should become part of the discussion?
Re: So today is the day some vote for another ten years of Tory rule
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Originally Posted by
Gabalphaville
Want Corbyn to win despite his faults. Would like him to push for de-selection of disloyal members of the PLP immediately and politically realign the party to represent the membership. Not convinced he will though. His inclination towards reconciliation will be his downfall. If he isn’t ruthless now we will be back in this position in a year's time and Labour really will be regarded by the electorate as a joke.
He gets or should l say got my vote
Re: So today is the day some vote for another ten years of Tory rule
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Originally Posted by
ninianclark
:hehe: how many years of Labour Govt have we had in Cardiff Bay - if you are happy about that - then you cant complain about there being a Tory Govt for the next 10 years or so :sherlock:
10 years? Optimistic there mate. I'm not happy that labour have been in power so long in Wales either. Struggling to find the relevance here mate... Care to enlighten me?
I find a way to solve our inevitable Tory government, you mention labour?
Re: So today is the day some vote for another ten years of Tory rule
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gabalphaville
Want Corbyn to win despite his faults. Would like him to push for de-selection of disloyal members of the PLP immediately and politically realign the party to represent the membership. Not convinced he will though. His inclination towards reconciliation will be his downfall. If he isn’t ruthless now we will be back in this position in a year's time and Labour really will be regarded by the electorate as a joke.
Just what do you consider "his faults" to be?
I'm not aware of one single person that he has been responsible for killing, or one country that he has authorised bombing in. I admit he hasn't put any boots on the ground anywhere but he has put his daps on his cycle pedals and I'm still trying to figure out if that disqualifies him from a being a leader of a country, whose people want to be led by someone not looking for the next war to get involved in.
Re: So today is the day some vote for another ten years of Tory rule
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Originally Posted by
ninianclark
"There's a way we in Wales can avoid this Tory rule. Perhaps it should become part of the discussion?"
Should there have been an 'If' at the start of your sentence ?
My only point being that there is nothing you can do but accept Labour Govt in Wales for ever - it will NEVER change here as people will always vote for Labour.
So for the foreseeable future you also have to accept that we are probably going to have a Tory Govt in Westminster as well.
Corbyn attracts the far left part of the population - and ignores the middle ground - if you do that - you wont win a General Election - that's the way the system is here. On top of that Corbyn is someone who has voted against his own party over 400 times - and now expects loyalty from the same party FFS, the man is a complete header of the worst kind - a bit like Blair - someone who believes his way is the only way and everyone else is the enemy.
There is no if. There is a way we can avoid rule from a party that hasn't been given a majority here for decades. It's often dismissed right away, but the chance of perpetual Tory rule is as good a reason for it as I can think of.
I don't think labour will always be in power in Wales. Their stranglehold is beginning to fall. Of course, it'll take a while, maybe the next election is too soon.
Agree with corbyn. I read a stat that stated that labour voters are more likely to vote for labour if corbyn is leader, but 40% of non labour voters will not even consider it if he's the leader. Can't win an election with stats like that.
But then it begs the question, is there a point winning an election if you just have to turn into the Tories (like Blair did) to do it? Perhaps we need to accept we live in a right wing UK?
Re: So today is the day some vote for another ten years of Tory rule
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Originally Posted by
tommy31
There is no if. There is a way we can avoid rule from a party that hasn't been given a majority here for decades. It's often dismissed right away, but the chance of perpetual Tory rule is as good a reason for it as I can think of.
I don't think labour will always be in power in Wales. Their stranglehold is beginning to fall. Of course, it'll take a while, maybe the next election is too soon.
Agree with corbyn. I read a stat that stated that labour voters are more likely to vote for labour if corbyn is leader, but 40% of non labour voters will not even consider it if he's the leader. Can't win an election with stats like that.
But then it begs the question, is there a point winning an election if you just have to turn into the Tories (like Blair did) to do it? Perhaps we need to accept we live in a right wing UK?
"40%" is a skewed figure. The amount who would vote for his policies is far far greater than that, however people have been successfully conditioned by mainstream media to regard the man himself as somehow suspect.
Re: So today is the day some vote for another ten years of Tory rule
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Originally Posted by
Splott David
"40%" is a skewed figure. The amount who would vote for his policies is far far greater than that, however people have been successfully conditioned by mainstream media to regard the man himself as somehow suspect.
This could be the case. Either way, we get the same conclusion, right?
Re: So today is the day some vote for another ten years of Tory rule
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Originally Posted by
tommy31
This could be the case. Either way, we get the same conclusion, right?
Afraid not. It's not his policies which people don't like.It's the successful demonisation of the man by pro-Israeli groups and organisations along with mainstream media outlets.
The conclusion is that if people are really serious about voting then they have to start thinking for themselves.
Re: So today is the day some vote for another ten years of Tory rule
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Originally Posted by
Splott David
"40%" is a skewed figure. The amount who would vote for his policies is far far greater than that, however people have been successfully conditioned by mainstream media to regard the man himself as somehow suspect.
And how do you know this for certain O wise one?
Re: So today is the day some vote for another ten years of Tory rule
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Originally Posted by
Splott David
Just what do you consider "his faults" to be?
I'm not aware of one single person that he has been responsible for killing, or one country that he has authorised bombing in. I admit he hasn't put any boots on the ground anywhere but he has put his daps on his cycle pedals and I'm still trying to figure out if that disqualifies him from a being a leader of a country, whose people want to be led by someone not looking for the next war to get involved in.
I think people respect him for having principles and being honest but he's a bit of a hard sell to the middle classes in the south of England who win you General Elections. They aren't convinced, for example, that he will do a good job with the economy. I'm not convinced either that all those former-Labour voters who now support Ukip are going to return to the fold under immigration-friendly Jezza. As we know he's an easy target for the media who have resurrected every 70s lefty reference under the sun to demonise him. And he can't command loyalty in the PLP as he's never been loyal himself. Hopefully he can solve that one by urging the de-selection of half the PLP. One big plus point for JC is the election of old biddy Theresa Mayhem as the Tory leader. He always looked a bit ancient and desiccated up against Cameron but now things are a little more even, image-wise.
Re: So today is the day some vote for another ten years of Tory rule
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Splott David
Afraid not. It's not his policies which people don't like.It's the successful demonisation of the man by pro-Israeli groups and organisations along with mainstream media outlets.
The conclusion is that if people are really serious about voting then they have to start thinking for themselves.
But we get the same answer. Why they don't vote for him is irrelevant. Fact is they don't. FWIW I think people like him because he is principled, but don't like his policies.
And on your final point, I'd agree that anyone who wants to vote should do some reading first. Problem for labour is that anyone who does won't be voting for them.
Re: So today is the day some vote for another ten years of Tory rule
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninianclark
Corbyn is an idealist - aka a dreamer, which is fine , but being that isnt the same as being PM.
He will win the Labour leadership election, that will result in the formation of a new centre left leaning party - consisting of Lib Dems / ex Labour MPs
Lib Dems have feck all MPs, so will Labour at the next election, so they might as well call it quits and start something new.
And we have seen it happen before i.e. the SDP.
Re: So today is the day some vote for another ten years of Tory rule
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Originally Posted by
tommy31
But we get the same answer. Why they don't vote for him is irrelevant. Fact is they don't. FWIW I think people like him because he is principled, but don't like his policies.
And on your final point, I'd agree that anyone who wants to vote should do some reading first. Problem for labour is that anyone who does won't be voting for them.
I don't agree. :hehe:
His policies are liked when people don't know that it is him that has put forward the policies.When they find out who the man is behind the policies, then a percentage express disappointment and claim that they would not vote for him.
The only question is how much of that is due to the relentless media campaign waged against him for nearly twelve months.
Re: So today is the day some vote for another ten years of Tory rule
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Splott David
I don't agree. :hehe:
His policies are liked when people don't know that it is him that has put forward the policies.When they find out who the man is behind the policies, then a percentage express disappointment and claim that they would not vote for him.
The only question is how much of that is due to the relentless media campaign waged against him for nearly twelve months.
Can you provide any sources please? Haven't seen this attitude before
