What happened to Flyer46 and Duggie?
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What happened to Flyer46 and Duggie?
I would imagine that Dave Henderson isn't commenting because he realises that he has monumentally ****ed up by asking / letting David Ibbotson do the flight.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
The McKay's are scrambling around like 'Rats on a sinking ship'
Henderson was a good friend of Ibbotson so I would imagine that Henderson feels very bad that his friend died in a flight he had organised ( I use the words 'Good Friend' loosely though as I wouldn't send a friend who isn't legal to do a flight at night on such a flight )
This part of the link is Willie McKay trying to clear his own name whilst doing his utmost to " Throw Henderson under the bus "
For it to be classed as cost-sharing, pilot David Ibbotson would have had to have been making the journey regardless, dictating to Sala when the plane was leaving and sharing the cost of the flight equally with him.
Agent Willie McKay, who commissioned the flight for Sala, said the flight from Nantes to Cardiff was not a cost-sharing arrangement.
He said "Emi wasn't paying anything" and that he was going to pay "whatever Dave [Henderson] was going to charge".
Mr McKay said David Henderson was the pilot he used most frequently to arrange his flights.
It is thought Mr Henderson was not available for the Sala flight, so he asked Mr Ibbotson to do the job.
Payment would usually be made after a flight due to the varying amounts paid for landing fees at different airports.
The article has some interesting snippets.
(1) Willie McKay made the timing arrangements so I doubt David Ibbotson had any control over the departure time( I still believe that David Ibbotson thought he was flying back in daylight hours which is why he filed a ICAO Flightplan @ 0900hrs (ish)
I suspect either McKay or Henderson sprang the night departure on Ibbotson after his initial flightplan was filed.
(2) Willie McKay stating that it wasn't a costsharing flight is throwing a now deceased man under the bus & shoving Henderson under the same bus. ( The throwing the now deceased pilot under the bus now potentially puts the Ibbotson family in a more vulnerable position than they were )
(3)Willie McKay stating that payment would usually be made after a flight due to the varying amounts paid for landing fees at different airports is another 'loophole' that McKay thinks removes that it wasn't a flight that Ibbotson was already paid for. That 'loophole' won't work for him as a defence because either him or Henderson had agreed a rate with Ibbotson. Willie McKay had previously said that he had paid Dave Henderson to do the job so McKay had paid monies for this trip.
I think Willie McKay knows he is ****ed now & is just clambering away to take as many others down with him when the 'shit really hits the fan'
What it all screams to me is a "just do it, it'll be alright" situation which has gone tragically wrong
I am pulling back on what comments I make on this subject as I am sure you all now can see that this isn't going to be an investigation that will be concluded quickly, there are still so many snippets that aren't out in the public domain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
A key point is that the article says Mr Ibbotson's pilots licence and logbook were lost in the crash. The interim report states that David Ibbotson had Approximately 3,700 hours as his Commander’s Flying Experience with flying experience in the Last 90 days - unknown / Last 28 days - unknown ( These would be estimated from his last revalidation declaration of hours ) As to his Pilots licence, The CAA/FAA/EASA have that data to hand ( As do I ). but are not publicly released to the general public.
I did notice today that the Search Boat GEO OCEAN III (http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/...:GEO_OCEAN_III was earlier near the Humber estuary so I am hoping that is going to be a relevant point in the search or recovery of Ibbotson's body.
Attachment 2947
That is about what it was !!!! Henderson most likely said " You can hack it, just get Sala here & the 'milky bars are on me' "Quote:
Originally Posted by delmbox
It is without doubt a situation which has gone tragically wrong....... Sadly Ibbotson was a bit of a risk taker & Henderson is a renowned risk taker, whereas McKay seems to have an attitude of " I don't care how you get it done, just get it sorted " So between the 3 Muskeeters they had a plan !!!!
Henderson was the organiser of the flight ( that can be taken as 'given' )Quote:
Originally Posted by simonp_ccfc
McKay was the ultimate organiser of the flight & the paymaster.
I would imagine that McKay 'shouted'.....Henderson 'listened' & Ibbotson 'done as he was told'
What’s your proof that Henderson was a “renowned” risk taker ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer46
His last revalidation declaration of hours?Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer46
What are you even talking about here ?
The SEP validation only requires the amount of hours flown in the last 12 months prior to expiry.
It does not require total time flown.
However His class 2 medical form would have that information.
You don’t half spout some utter bullshit on this site with regards aviation.
What stands out for me is:
the Mckays are doing all the up front chatter appearing to exonerate themselves and suggest the club weren't caring.
Mr Henderson is silent , strangely the press are not pursuing him more aggressively.
Nantes want money asap,are they worried?
If this was a bigger club and player I wonder how the media would pursue this story and how thier treatment would be of those involved.
I still don't fully understand the story of three men were allegedly seen on the tarmac before the flight.
If Henderson was one of them why didn't he fly.
If Henderson knew Ibbotson, surely he'd know of his skillsets??
Would Henderson not know of Ibbotson night flying abilities .
Would Henderson also have looked at the weather and know of single engine risks this time of the year .
Sorry our club never made these decisions, others did in my view and are responsible.
I'm guessing the piece he did for the BBC, where he made it clear that he took huge risks flying solo over oceans in a single engined plane.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky High Bluebird
SHB, Semantics Old Boy......feel free to keep pulling me up on semantics :sherlock:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky High Bluebird
His Revalidation was an open ended statement :hehe: Did I say " These would be estimated from his last revalidation declaration of hours " or did I say " These would be estimated from his last revalidation declaration of hours when renewing his licence ? "
He revalidated his Medical, we don't know when he revalidated his BFR or Licence so never assume something as that makes you look more foolish.
I could bounce your reply back because you speak like a 'molly coddled Bucket & Spade Bus Driver' who has all his flight co-ordination done for him, so wind your neck you pompous arse.
Now, play nicely as you seem like a knowledgeable guy but probably not as clever on GA or CAA stuff as you think.
It’s a figure of speech.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
Do you think he takes every available precaution when ferrying single engine across the Atlantic via Greenland and the like.
I have a friend of mine who does this.
The planning for these type of flights is extensive and well researched and they fly with every type of safety equipment imaginable.
These guys are professionals.
And anyone having knowledge of someone flying a single engine plane over the channel in the winter, is knowing of that person is taking a risk .Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
Added to this if one was aware of a pilots limitations one may suggest that was a risk.
One when doesnt take a commercial flight and chose a small plane flight in choppy conditions is also talking a risk .
Anyone listening to agents always has to size up the quality of that information against risk.
That is a small part of the basis, the bigger part is GA being a close knit community, everyone chats & if you take an overview of what the majority say the coclusion is " He is a HUGE RISK TAKER ( not was as SHB says !!! )Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
Really ? ... I’m an ex flying instructor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer46
Whereas you are a complete Walt who’s I suspect has never touched an aircraft in his life.:thumbup:
Yes, I watched the video, but it's still bonkers having a potential ditching into the middle of the Atlantic ocean as part of the flight plan :biggrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky High Bluebird
The McKay's are clutching at straws & hoping that they can make some mud stick to others whilst trying to cleanse themselves of any blame.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Dave Henderson is staying very quiet, I think he knows he is implicated & has most likely been advised to say nothing because as this investigation gets more indepth he will need to have more answers than he would need to give at this time & when he has to speak his knowledge will be far better as he will have already seen all the shite McKay has spouted & then he has the ability to accept or deny certain statements.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
I would think Nantes want their money asap because they sold Sala & to be blunt he was 'fit for purpose' when sold...the fact whilst under the care of AN.Other he became no longer 'fit for purpose' isn't Nantes problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
I think it would be treated the same way as it is now, the truth of it all is in the 'mamby pamby state' we live in nowadays no one really says what they actually want to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Two of the men were David Ibbotson & Emiliano Sala, the third person could have been anyone ( it could have been a groundhandler, it could have been a genderamerie, it could have been a journo, it might have even been Dave Henderson but as he says he wasn't personally there I suspect he wasn't ).Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
He claims he wasn't there, a bit that confuses me is he also claims he hasn't been to Nantes in over a year, but McKay claims " I REGULARLY USE HENDERSON " so who flew the people out to scout him & who flew Warnock out to Nantes? Also wasn't Henderson reported to have been the co-pilot on the Eclipse Jet that Sala flew to Cardiff in from Nantes?Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Henderson knew exactly what skillsets Ibbotson had, Henderson also knew that Ibbotson would do anything to help a mate out.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Henderson knew exactly what skillsets Ibbotson had & that he didn't have a current night rating, Henderson also knew that Ibbotson would do anything to help a mate out so if he dropped a change of plan on him last minute he would take a risk in the process.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Henderson knew exactly what weather Ibbotson would have to fly through as Henderson would have been checking that out, Henderson also knew that Ibbotson would push his luck to help a mate out.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
I think it is conclusive that Henderson & the McKay's were complicit in this whole situation & Ibbotson was just trying to help a mate out.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
BRather them than me admittedly:-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
You are entitled to your opinion but you are so wrong it is laughable :wave:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky High Bluebird
I must say being an ex flying instructor is hardly an accolade, it is invariably or usually the vocation of some lowtimer who wants to build up flying hours so they can become a Glorified Bus Driver whilst making a 'groove' in the ground around the circuit of some training airfield.
I am fairly confident when I indubitably say I will have flown more different types than you & most likely touched more aircraft than you
:music:
( not sure I could indubitably say I would have more hours than you due to the different natures of our flying ) but I am not looking to get into a 'dick wagging' contest over what you think you know & what I know I know.
:sherlock:
I am hoping you weren't ever an instructor at anywhere I have had a checkout or done a flight revalidation at?
I am wondering which company you drive the Airbus for? I am hoping it isn't any airline we use :thumbup:
They don't plan to ditch, they plan everything to avoid or negate the risk of ditching.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
You sound a bit bitter Walt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer46
Well in terms of flying hours you certainly haven’t been doing any this week have you:sherlock:
Is the “PA46” in the hangar for maintenance ? :biggrin:
I don't think it is a figure of speech, I think when he said that in the documentary it was a 'statement of fact'Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky High Bluebird
I am guessing that with the almost always need for a ferry tank inside the cabin area it restricts the capacity to take every precaution when flying a light single across the Atlantic via Greenland and the like. So I have seen a ferry pilot who doesn't even wear an immersion suit or suchlike because he reserves himself to the fact that he ain't going to get out or rescued if he goes down in the Atlantic on 90% of the routings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky High Bluebird
I think everyone knows a pilot who does ferrying or has done ferrying :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky High Bluebird
Not always do they fly with every type of safety equipment imaginable. Not always is The planning for these type of flights done extensively and well researchedQuote:
Originally Posted by Sky High Bluebird
There are cowboys in every aspect of aviation so not all are professionals as has been proven in this very instance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky High Bluebird
I might be reading this wrong but it seems that you’re saying that you wouldn’t want to be on a plane flown by shb. Are you saying he/she is not competent to fly?Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer46