A lot has been said about Chelsea's offside goal against us...

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Originally Posted by kendoddsdadsdogsdead

what conclusion?

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Forget it

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Forget it

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...sorry paul..just wondering if you're aware of the chaos theory...if the chelsea pen is rightly given and it's scored or missed..the whole game pans out different to the one we saw..including iffy decisions.

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Originally Posted by kendoddsdadsdogsdead

...sorry paul..just wondering if you're aware of the chaos theory...if the chelsea pen is rightly given and it's scored or missed..the whole game pans out different to the one we saw..including iffy decisions.

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...it's akin to saying if we'd scored those 2 last min pens against wolves we would have won...wrong..if we'd scored the first one the second wouldn't have happened.

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Originally Posted by kendoddsdadsdogsdead

...it's akin to saying if we'd scored those 2 last min pens against wolves we would have won...wrong..if we'd scored the first one the second wouldn't have happened.

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I agree about the Wolves game - it finishes 1-1 if Madine scores his penalty.

However, the Chelsea game is different surely. Chelsea are awarded a penalty for Gunnar's foul and score from it, so that means that, at best from a City perspective, all of the game's other controversial incidents, apart from one, occur with us either drawing or losing (i.e. a situation where we would be expected to have a more attacking attitude than we would have had in the way the match panned out in reality). If anything, that would mean us pumping or throwing more high balls into the Chelsea goalmouth from dead ball situations and more opportunities for the sort of challenges on Morrison that the pundits on Match of the Day agreed should have resulted in two penalties for us (I don't see that a difference in the score at the time would affect the way Chelsea "handled" the threat posed by our captain).

I accept that Chelsea would not have been as light at the back when Rudiger brought down Zohore late on if the score had been 2-1 to them rather than 1-1, but I don't believe that it was solely the fact that they were losing which enabled Chelsea to gain the corner they equalised from - they would have just as likely have got it if the score was 1-1 at the time and the linesman would have made the same, truly dreadful, error either way.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

However, the Chelsea game is different surely. Chelsea are awarded a penalty for Gunnar's foul and score from it, so that means that, at best from a City perspective, all of the game's other controversial incidents, apart from one, occur with us either drawing or losing....

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I don't think you're getting this at all.....

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I don't think you're getting this at all.....

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...hallelujah!!!...dave..he's not got it at all

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Originally Posted by kendoddsdadsdogsdead

...hallelujah!!!...dave..he's not got it at all

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..there's fact and conjecture

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Originally Posted by Bluebina

The ref knew we were down by then, would never have been awarded if we had needed 3 points to stay up!!!

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It was like a token gesture wasn’t it? Here you are Neil have this one now as we know we’ve ballsed up so often this season, have a win on us at Man Utd for a bit of goodwill....sneaky****ers

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Originally Posted by kendoddsdadsdogsdead

...hallelujah!!!...dave..he's not got it at all

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Interesting that you refer to the Wolves game as the example to back up what you say. As I mentioned, I agree that the second penalty would not have happened if we'd scored the first one and, in fact, said that very thing either on my blog or on here in the days following the game. However, whereas you appear to put this down to chaos theory, I base my opinion on the view that if Madine had scored, especially with so little time left, both sides would have been happy to settle for a 1-1 draw rather than risk losing the game in pursuit of a winner.

The game you refer to would have ended with two teams prepared to see the remaining minute or two out with an outcome they could both live with. This, plainly, would not have been the case if Chelsea had taken the lead early on with a penalty awarded for the foul by Gunnar. It is my opinion that two things would have happened then.

First, a lifetime watching the game has shown me that, unless they are trying to turn around an aggregate deficit in a two leg tie, teams become more circumspect to different degrees when they go ahead in a match. Second, nearly three years of watching Neil Warnock's City side has taught me that we go even more direct if we fall behind. Therefore, we would have been likely to see more dead ball deliveries into the Chelsea penalty area not less and, given the way they "marked" Sean Morrison throughout that afternoon there would be a strong chance of more penalty shouts for the officials to deal with.

I say this not because I don't "get" chaos theory, but because I believe more in the practicalities of football - you and Dave are the ones trying to use references to complex mathematical theory to, for some reason, deny what was obvious to anyone who was watching the match impartially, not me.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I say this not because I don't "get" chaos theory, but because I believe more in the practicalities of football - you and Dave are the ones trying to use references to complex mathematical theory to, for some reason, deny what was obvious to anyone who was watching the match impartially, not me.

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You've lost it.

This is not about complex mathematical theories. It's about reality. If the penalty was given to Chelsea for the early foul, the whole game changes immediately regardless of whether Chelsea score it or not. That's not an opinion based on watching the game or otherwise. It's just the way the world works.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

You've lost it.

This is not about complex mathematical theories. It's about reality. If the penalty was given to Chelsea for the early foul, the whole game changes immediately regardless of whether Chelsea score it or not. That's not an opinion based on watching the game or otherwise. It's just the way the world works.

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You'd better tell your mate it's not about complex mathematical theories, because he's the one saying it is, not me.

In reality, what you're saying is that there is no point in debating anything that happens in a game because it never would have done so if, say, the player starting the game had tapped the ball to a team mate on his right rather than his left - I'm the one whose lost it?

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

You'd better tell your mate it's not about complex mathematical theories, because he's the one saying it is, not me.

In reality, what you're saying is that there is no point in debating anything that happens in a game because it never would have done so if, say, the player starting the game had tapped the ball to a team mate on his right rather than his left - I'm the one whose lost it?

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:hehe:

Oh get a grip, you daft old sod. You know as well as I do that had an early penalty been awarded to Chelsea, the incidents that occurred later in the game would never have happened. Of course, similar incidents might have taken place at some point in the game, but that's just conjecture.

Had the early penalty been given, Chelsea might have scored it. Or they may have missed it. Or Etheridge may have saved it. Or the ball might have hit the woodwork and bounced back into play. The game might have restarted with City kicking off. Or it may have restarted with a goal kick. Or it may have restarted with Etheridge punting the ball upfield or out of play. Or maybe it had already restarted because the ball had hit the post. We'll never know what would have happened next, and that's the point. But what we do know is that the game would have been different. Such is the random nature of football and life in general that pretty much anything was possible from that point - a comfortable Chelsea win, a narrow Chelsea win, a goalless draw, a score draw (although City don't do those), a narrow City win, a comfortable City win, etc.

Right, so are you going to tell the German pensioner who has spent their life with a sense of grievance over the how they were robbed in the 1966 World Cup Final that they are wrong to do so because it never would have happened if someone in the crowd that day had decided to have one sugar in their half time cup of tea rather than their normal two or shall I? :hehe:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Right, so are you going to tell the German pensioner who has spent their life with a sense of grievance over the how they were robbed in the 1966 World Cup Final that they are wrong to do so because it never would have happened if someone in the crowd that day had decided to have one sugar in their half time cup of tea rather than their normal two or shall I? :hehe:

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How long until someone brings the many worlds interpretation into this discussion

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Right, so are you going to tell the German pensioner who has spent their life with a sense of grievance over the how they were robbed in the 1966 World Cup Final that they are wrong to do so because it never would have happened if someone in the crowd that day had decided to have one sugar in their half time cup of tea rather than their normal two or shall I? :hehe:

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As previously suspected, you’ve lost it.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

As previously suspected, you’ve lost it.

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Slightly ironic.

Cesar Azpilicueta looked to be in a clearly illegitimate position when he restored parity in south Wales, leading to a social media backlash
An near-inexplicable refereeing error during Chelsea's visit to Cardiff City once more saw match officials come under the spotlight in the Premier League.

Maurizio Sarri's men were pressed against the ropes on Sunday when the relegation-threatened hosts took the lead in the first half through Victor Camarasa.

But with "Sarri out" chants circulating through the visiting end - answered by "Sarri in" from Cardiff fans - the Blues received a reprieve.

Editors' Picks
Are you sure, Leo? Barca may need to rethink stance on Valverde after Copa failure
Pogba & Hazard in, Bale out - Real Madrid's transfer plans this summer
Joao Felix in, Sane out: Manchester City's transfer plans this summer
Time to go Gareth! Bale will never be the star at Real Madrid
Cesar Azpilicueta was on hand to head the equaliser home just six minutes from time as he steered past Neil Etheridge.

The only problem, for Cardiff and neutral fans at least, was that the Spain international looked to be in a clearly offside position when he struck.

The full-back was one of two Chelsea men beyond the last defender when Marcos Alonso returned the ball into the danger zone, but the linesman's flag stayed resolutely down and Craig Pawson sanctioned the leveller.

To add insult to injury Ruben Loftus-Cheek swooped in injury time to hand Chelsea all three points, sinking Cardiff further into relegation woe and provoking a backlash across social media.

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Originally Posted by BLUETIT

Was it bollox, !!!!!!!

How come the defender looked so guilty ????

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City could have had 2 or 3 penalties in that game.

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Originally Posted by Alinashulb

Cesar Azpilicueta looked to be in a clearly illegitimate position when he restored parity in south Wales, leading to a social media backlash
An near-inexplicable refereeing error during Chelsea's visit to Cardiff City once more saw match officials come under the spotlight in the Premier League.

Maurizio Sarri's men were pressed against the ropes on Sunday when the relegation-threatened hosts took the lead in the first half through Victor Camarasa.

But with "Sarri out" chants circulating through the visiting end - answered by "Sarri in" from Cardiff fans - the Blues received a reprieve.

Editors' Picks
Are you sure, Leo? Barca may need to rethink stance on Valverde after Copa failure
Pogba & Hazard in, Bale out - Real Madrid's transfer plans this summer
Joao Felix in, Sane out: Manchester City's transfer plans this summer
Time to go Gareth! Bale will never be the star at Real Madrid
Cesar Azpilicueta was on hand to head the equaliser home just six minutes from time as he steered past Neil Etheridge.

The only problem, for Cardiff and neutral fans at least, was that the Spain international looked to be in a clearly offside position when he struck.

The full-back was one of two Chelsea men beyond the last defender when Marcos Alonso returned the ball into the danger zone, but the linesman's flag stayed resolutely down and Craig Pawson sanctioned the leveller.

To add insult to injury Ruben Loftus-Cheek swooped in injury time to hand Chelsea all three points, sinking Cardiff further into relegation woe and provoking a backlash across social media.

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Craig Pawson (and the linesman) had a nightmare game that day, however, we was still refereeing premiership games directly after.
Managers cannot criticism referees but the FA also seem unable to sanction any discipline either.