NW and the quest for promotion.

Whilst I had believed that it was time for a change I can see the benefits of continuity and wish NW well.
But the pressure is on.
His publicly stated that task is to achieve promotion and then walk away.
That is why he has been retained.
So what happens if we get off to a poor start?
What if we are off the pace by XMAS?
What if we are there or thereabouts in March but losing our way?
Surely, if at any point the view is that he is not going to achieve the objective, then he will have to go.
I hope he achieves it.

We've turbo-charged our development as a club through the promotion and limited success in the premier league (too limited to stay up) but we're still a relatively young club in that we don't have a wide reaching scouting network, we don't have a pathway from youth football to senior football, we don't have a structure that is fully set-up if something happened and NW had to pack in football tomorrow, we don't have so much that a modern day club looks to have organised in order for long term success. This is our year to work on those points as much as it is to earn another promotion and if we develop off the field and finish mid-table then arguably has been a successful season.

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Originally Posted by surge

We've turbo-charged our development as a club through the promotion and limited success in the premier league (too limited to stay up) but we're still a relatively young club in that we don't have a wide reaching scouting network, we don't have a pathway from youth football to senior football, we don't have a structure that is fully set-up if something happened and NW had to pack in football tomorrow, we don't have so much that a modern day club looks to have organised in order for long term success. This is our year to work on those points as much as it is to earn another promotion and if we develop off the field and finish mid-table then arguably has been a successful season.

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That is not the stated aim.
Nor would you expect a Manager focussed on immediate promotion to be setting the strategy for the future of the club.
If we wanted to do that then we should have appointed a new Manager on a minimum three year contract.
The only way it would work would be to have a number 2 lined up who would continue down the same road.

There will be a weight of expectation next season - and interesting to see if we ( the fans collectively) are as patient with the teams perfomances as we were this season

Do we also become a “scalp” in the Championship - like for example Leeds and Villa are? Not sure if we will be seen as a team to beat by other clubs ( apart from the Wurzels and Jacks) but might be if we’re installed as one of the pre season favourites

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

There will be a weight of expectation next season - and interesting to see if we ( the fans collectively) are as patient with the teams perfomances as we were this season

Do we also become a “scalp” in the Championship - like for example Leeds and Villa are? Not sure if we will be seen as a team to beat by other clubs ( apart from the Wurzels and Jacks) but might be if we’re installed as one of the pre season favourites

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Precisely. It's why talk of what we did 2 years ago has a certain irrelevance.

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Originally Posted by surge

We've turbo-charged our development as a club through the promotion and limited success in the premier league (too limited to stay up) but we're still a relatively young club in that we don't have a wide reaching scouting network, we don't have a pathway from youth football to senior football, we don't have a structure that is fully set-up if something happened and NW had to pack in football tomorrow, we don't have so much that a modern day club looks to have organised in order for long term success. This is our year to work on those points as much as it is to earn another promotion and if we develop off the field and finish mid-table then arguably has been a successful season.

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All very good but I see no evidence that this is the plan.

It will be interesting to see how Neil Warnock deals with expectation. He's always come across to me as a manager who is more comfortable being the underdog, when the chips are against him, a "Them against us" kind of mentality. He won't be able to tell us how much the opposing club's striker cost or how much worth of talent the other team had on the bench, that won't cut anymore.

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Originally Posted by Rock_Flock_of_Five

It will be interesting to see how Neil Warnock deals with expectation. He's always come across to me as a manager who is more comfortable being the underdog, when the chips are against him, a "Them against us" kind of mentality. He won't be able to tell us how much the opposing club's striker cost or how much worth of talent the other team had on the bench, that won't cut anymore.

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I think he knows how to handle the championship. We were 13th favourites last time so maybe easier for him in his underdog mask he loves.

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Originally Posted by goats

I think he knows how to handle the championship. We were 13th favourites last time so maybe easier for him in his underdog mask he loves.

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Which is my point: there will be no underdog mask to wear this time around. When was the last time Warnock was in charge of a team with expectations placed upon it?

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Originally Posted by Rock_Flock_of_Five

Which is my point: there will be no underdog mask to wear this time around. When was the last time Warnock was in charge of a team with expectations placed upon it?

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Leeds I'd say and that hardly went well did it.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Leeds I'd say and that hardly went well did it.

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As a football club, there will always be great expectation placed upon any manager of Leeds United, it goes with the territory, regardless of how good or bad their squad might be.
I decided to Google to find out what the strength of the squad was that Neil Warnock had at Leeds at that time. I came across this:-

...."The football itself was horrible. Turgid, slow, overly aggressive and physical to the point of detriment when it came to indiscipline. The pace and verticality that once came with the likes of Max Gradel and Robert Snodgrass had long departed the club with them. Michael Brown was the best characterisation of the biggest team of cloggers in Leeds United history, already at the club, and waiting in wings for Warnock. Together they formed the most nauseating manager-player love affair in football, making the Sam Allardyce & Kevin Nolan axis look as cultured as Mourinho & Carvalho at their peak. Nothing says more about the man’s time in charge than failing to play a young Ross Barkley on loan and opting for “Browneh” instead."

Has a familiar ring to it.

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Originally Posted by Rock_Flock_of_Five

As a football club, there will always be great expectation placed upon any manager of Leeds United, it goes with the territory, regardless of how good or bad their squad might be.
I decided to Google to find out what the strength of the squad was that Neil Warnock had at Leeds at that time. I came across this:-

...."The football itself was horrible. Turgid, slow, overly aggressive and physical to the point of detriment when it came to indiscipline. The pace and verticality that once came with the likes of Max Gradel and Robert Snodgrass had long departed the club with them. Michael Brown was the best characterisation of the biggest team of cloggers in Leeds United history, already at the club, and waiting in wings for Warnock. Together they formed the most nauseating manager-player love affair in football, making the Sam Allardyce & Kevin Nolan axis look as cultured as Mourinho & Carvalho at their peak. Nothing says more about the man’s time in charge than failing to play a young Ross Barkley on loan and opting for “Browneh” instead."

Has a familiar ring to it.

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Ya, but, along with the rest of us, Neil “hated Weeds” :hehe::hehe:

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Originally Posted by Rock_Flock_of_Five

As a football club, there will always be great expectation placed upon any manager of Leeds United, it goes with the territory, regardless of how good or bad their squad might be.
I decided to Google to find out what the strength of the squad was that Neil Warnock had at Leeds at that time. I came across this:-

...."The football itself was horrible. Turgid, slow, overly aggressive and physical to the point of detriment when it came to indiscipline. The pace and verticality that once came with the likes of Max Gradel and Robert Snodgrass had long departed the club with them. Michael Brown was the best characterisation of the biggest team of cloggers in Leeds United history, already at the club, and waiting in wings for Warnock. Together they formed the most nauseating manager-player love affair in football, making the Sam Allardyce & Kevin Nolan axis look as cultured as Mourinho & Carvalho at their peak. Nothing says more about the man’s time in charge than failing to play a young Ross Barkley on loan and opting for “Browneh” instead."

Has a familiar ring to it.

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Has the ring of a disgruntled Leeds fan. What's the source?

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Originally Posted by Harry Monk

Has the ring of a disgruntled Leeds fan. What's the source?

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Sour grapes, by the sound of it :hehe: (is there a sour grapes sauce ???):hehe:

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Originally Posted by Harry Monk

Has the ring of a disgruntled Leeds fan. What's the source?

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https://throughitalltogether.sbnatio...le-the-era-was

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

There will be a weight of expectation next season - and interesting to see if we ( the fans collectively) are as patient with the teams perfomances as we were this season

Do we also become a “scalp” in the Championship - like for example Leeds and Villa are? Not sure if we will be seen as a team to beat by other clubs ( apart from the Wurzels and Jacks) but might be if we’re installed as one of the pre season favourites

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I think that'll only happen if we become arrogant, which is a really bad pitfall - 'specially in the Championship.

The truth is that at this point, next season is a complete unknown. We've yet to sign any players and have the pre-season friendlies.

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Originally Posted by Rock_Flock_of_Five

https://throughitalltogether.sbnatio...le-the-era-was

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As I thought.

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Originally Posted by Harry Monk

As I thought.

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Well, it would have been very surprising if it had been written by someone who was a great advocate of Neil Warnock. Because he's "disgruntled", it doesn't mean he isn't being objective too.

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Originally Posted by Rock_Flock_of_Five

Well, it would have been very surprising if it had been written by someone who was a great advocate of Neil Warnock. Because he's "disgruntled", it doesn't mean he isn't being objective too.

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But you don't know if he is being objective either do you!

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Originally Posted by Elwood Blues

But you don't know if he is being objective either do you!

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No, I don't. It's probably all a pack of lies and completely fabricated.

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Originally Posted by Elwood Blues

But you don't know if he is being objective either do you!

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Whatever you think of what that Leeds fan said, I'd say it's generally accepted that Neil Warnock's time at Leeds, with its high levels of expectation, was not a success (nothing terrible about that, you could say that about virtually every manager they've had in this millennium). The original point was that there isn't much evidence around that Neil Warnock succeeds at clubs where there is a hogh level of expectation.
To be fair, there isn't a great deal of evidence of him failing at them either, because, by accident or design, he has had a habit of turning up at "underdog" clubs and I think it's getting harder (partly because of what Neil Warnock has done here) to see us as such a club - everything that has happened in the past two seasons suggests we will be regarded as a strong Championship team going into the season and I think it has to be accepted that a finish outside the top six will be viewed as a disappointing outcome.

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Originally Posted by B. Oddie

We've yet to sign any players and have the pre-season friendlies.

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Well we all know we’ll be testing ourselves against the power houses of the Cornish Pub League Division 3 like we do every year.

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Originally Posted by surge

We've turbo-charged our development as a club through the promotion and limited success in the premier league (too limited to stay up) but we're still a relatively young club in that we don't have a wide reaching scouting network, we don't have a pathway from youth football to senior football, we don't have a structure that is fully set-up if something happened and NW had to pack in football tomorrow, we don't have so much that a modern day club looks to have organised in order for long term success. This is our year to work on those points as much as it is to earn another promotion and if we develop off the field and finish mid-table then arguably has been a successful season.

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I though the same would happen ( We've turbo-charged our development as a club through the promotion

I did see us sign up a few promising lads , does anyone have any real evidence this has happened , who these lads are, and what are their positions ??

This will be NW's 40th year in management, In all those years he's only achieved four promotions that didn't come via the playoffs. And one of those came from the Conference. He has never managed to keep a club in the EPL. I don't know why everyone is confident we can go straight back up, and even if we did, there's no reason to believe we can stay there. This in my opinion is very short sighted and just goes to show what kind of people are running the club.

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

This will be NW's 40th year in management, In all those years he's only achieved four promotions that didn't come via the playoffs. And one of those came from the Conference. He has never managed to keep a club in the EPL. I don't know why everyone is confident we can go straight back up, and even if we did, there's no reason to believe we can stay there. This in my opinion is very short sighted and just goes to show what kind of people are running the club.

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I can't argue with your stats but I disagree with your assessment of what NW is capable of. Given the transfer restrictions we've worked under I would argue he's done brilliantly in trying to gradually evolve our squad into containing better footballers.

Our recruitment has clearly been done with a view to gradually improving the club this time, rather than the boom or bust we had last time. This is why there has been little anger at the relegation this year.

As others have noted, this year is the key year to discover what NW is capable of once he's finally got enough decent players in the squad. He's finally in a position where he can add a bit of quality depth to the squad that we've been missing so far.

I for one am more excited for this coming year than I have been for at least two seasons.

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Originally Posted by Penarth Blues

I can't argue with your stats but I disagree with your assessment of what NW is capable of. Given the transfer restrictions we've worked under I would argue he's done brilliantly in trying to gradually evolve our squad into containing better footballers.

Our recruitment has clearly been done with a view to gradually improving the club this time, rather than the boom or bust we had last time. This is why there has been little anger at the relegation this year.

As others have noted, this year is the key year to discover what NW is capable of once he's finally got enough decent players in the squad. He's finally in a position where he can add a bit of quality depth to the squad that we've been missing so far.

I for one am more excited for this coming year than I have been for at least two seasons.

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He bought two good footballers and one of them sat on the bench for most of the season.

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

He bought two good footballers and one of them sat on the bench for most of the season.

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Exactly, our transfer dealings record when it comes to permanent signings since January 2018 has to be rated as poor whatever the criteria you view them by - Decordova-Reid and Murphy were surely not bought as part of some "project" which would see us prosper in three seasons time, they were bought to help keep us in the Premier League.

What player signed since January 2018 could we definitely sell for more than we paid for him? I would argue the answer to that as of today is none - hardly a sign of some sort of long term plan.

That bloke Clough was awful as well.....................according to Leeds!!!!