Are our players technically better than 'hoof ball'?

Would a new manager get our lot playing 'keep ball'?

We know Warnock has told them to play the way we play so surely he can't be happy when Pack, Ralls, Tomlin & Bennett are always looking to find a pass? (Often not too successfully mind).
It does appear that the hoofing only comes from Etheridge, Flint & Morrison so is that all Warnock's doing or are those players very limited?

I have a feeling that, once Warnock goes, there will be a few players commenting on how refreshing it is to try and play 'proper football' under the new Manager (unless it's Pulls of course!)

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Originally Posted by blueblade

Would a new manager get our lot playing 'keep ball'?

We know Warnock has told them to play the way we play so surely he can't be happy when Pack, Ralls, Tomlin & Bennett are always looking to find a pass? (Often not too successfully mind).
It does appear that the hoofing only comes from Etheridge, Flint & Morrison so is that all Warnock's doing or are those players very limited?

I have a feeling that, once Warnock goes, there will be a few players commenting on how refreshing it is to try and play 'proper football' under the new Manager (unless it's Pulls of course!)

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Maybe - but so few players in the squad have proven that they can pass a ball effectively. Warnock was a hero but we need to move on as we are incredibly crude and ineffective.

Peltier and Flint aside surely these players could adapt to some degree.

I honestly don’t see why not.

Sure I’ve seen Flint play the odd decent long ball as well and play the odd pass in to pack in the middle..

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Originally Posted by blueblade

Would a new manager get our lot playing 'keep ball'?

We know Warnock has told them to play the way we play so surely he can't be happy when Pack, Ralls, Tomlin & Bennett are always looking to find a pass? (Often not too successfully mind).
It does appear that the hoofing only comes from Etheridge, Flint & Morrison so is that all Warnock's doing or are those players very limited?

I have a feeling that, once Warnock goes, there will be a few players commenting on how refreshing it is to try and play 'proper football' under the new Manager (unless it's Pulls of course!)

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When sides drop off and leave us space as Wednesday did in the 2nd half we have more room and can pass it around in front of them, but without time on the ball I just don't think we have Championship standard footballers in the centre of midfield. Tomlin,yes, but starting with Ralls, Pack and Bacuna you've probably got the least skilful trio in the division. Everything comes from the middle, and wingers, forwards, they all need good service. We just don't have the ability at this level. We were dire for 45 minutes on Friday..

Ralls, Pack, Tomlin, Hoilett, Whyte definitely.
I would say Smithies too.

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

When sides drop off and leave us space as Wednesday did in the 2nd half we have more room and can pass it around in front of them, but without time on the ball I just don't think we have Championship standard footballers in the centre of midfield. Tomlin,yes, but starting with Ralls, Pack and Bacuna you've probably got the least skilful trio in the division. Everything comes from the middle, and wingers, forwards, they all need good service. We just don't have the ability at this level. We were dire for 45 minutes on Friday..

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Our manager's frequent use of the term "bread and butter" players when talking about the central midfield area gives his feelings on that area of the pitch away, so I tend to agree - our squad has less skill and/or technical ability than average for this division, individually, they all have some ability they wouldn't be able to make careers for themselves at this level if they didn't), but, collectively I feel it falls short of what you get elsewhere.

Another very telling example of the squad's limitations came against Fulham when faced with the prospect of playing against ten men for the last quarter of the game. Fulham, who had been almost completely dominating possession, decided to hang on to the point they had and, suddenly, we had a situation where we had far more of the ball and the onus was on us to force the issue.

I think it's true to say that the classic way to play when up against ten men is to move them around by maintaining possession and making full use of all areas of the pitch, but all we did was pump high balls forward - could it be that Fulham knew we were incapable of wearing down in the classic manner and so felt they would be comfortable if they just concentrated on winning second balls, because that's how things panned out?

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Our manager's frequent use of the term "bread and butter" players when talking about the central midfield area gives his feelings on that area of the pitch away, so I tend to agree - our squad has less skill and/or technical ability than average for this division, individually, they all have some ability they wouldn't be able to make careers for themselves at this level if they didn't), but, collectively I feel it falls short of what you get elsewhere.

Another very telling example of the squad's limitations came against Fulham when faced with the prospect of playing against ten men for the last quarter of the game. Fulham, who had been almost completely dominating possession, decided to hang on to the point they had and, suddenly, we had a situation where we had far more of the ball and the onus was on us to force the issue.

I think it's true to say that the classic way to play when up against ten men is to move them around by maintaining possession and making full use of all areas of the pitch, but all we did was pump high balls forward - could it be that Fulham knew we were incapable of wearing down in the classic manner and so felt they would be comfortable if they just concentrated on winning second balls, because that's how things panned out?

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Managers instructions

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

I honestly don’t see why not.

Sure I’ve seen Flint play the odd decent long ball as well and play the odd pass in to pack in the middle..

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I don't think it's a case of being able to pass per say but it's being able to move, position and receive the ball at speed when under pressure.

We have players who can't sort their feet out and when you're being pressed this is essential.
We don't really have players who can do this and we just help the ball on into "the mixer"

I reckon players at our level are pretty adaptable. You’ve got to be a decent footballer to survive and be open to different methods of play, different coaching, different systems etc. Players move from club to club and fall in with the way their new club operate quite quickly and by the same token new managers/coaches join a club and implement their way and the players due to the fact that they’ve made it as a pro footballer take things on board. I’m not too worried about our players being so set in Warnock’s ways that they couldn’t adapt to a different mindset & system.

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Originally Posted by thehumblegringo

I don't think it's a case of being able to pass per say but it's being able to move, position and receive the ball at speed when under pressure.

We have players who can't sort their feet out and when you're being pressed this is essential.
We don't really have players who can do this and we just help the ball on into "the mixer"

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Yes you’ve got me there tbh.

Showed last year when Camarasa was 2 plays ahead with his passing and our lot not being on his wavelength.

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Originally Posted by splott parker

I reckon players at our level are pretty adaptable. You’ve got to be a decent footballer to survive and be open to different methods of play, different coaching, different systems etc. Players move from club to club and fall in with the way their new club operate quite quickly and by the same token new managers/coaches join a club and implement their way and the players due to the fact that they’ve made it as a pro footballer take things on board. I’m not too worried about our players being so set in Warnock’s ways that they couldn’t adapt to a different mindset & system.

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I take the point that they may have been playing to orders to some extent, but that Fulham game makes me wonder if if we are capable of keeping the ball for concerted periods - we don't keep the ball that well when we're defending single goal leads in the closing minutes either.

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Originally Posted by splott parker

I reckon players at our level are pretty adaptable. You’ve got to be a decent footballer to survive and be open to different methods of play, different coaching, different systems etc. Players move from club to club and fall in with the way their new club operate quite quickly and by the same token new managers/coaches join a club and implement their way and the players due to the fact that they’ve made it as a pro footballer take things on board. I’m not too worried about our players being so set in Warnock’s ways that they couldn’t adapt to a different mindset & system.

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Plenty of them could make the change. People talk like our players are pit ponies and that a different managerial style would be the equivelant to showing them the light. When they were learning the game it wouldn't have been football the 'Warnock way' that style has been obosolete amongst coaches for 25 years. It's only since they've come to us that they've had to play this direct crap. Most of them could adjust in my opinion, the point is would they be any good at it?

How much has the Brighton team changed since Houghton was replaced?

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I take the point that they may have been playing to orders to some extent, but that Fulham game makes me wonder if if we are capable of keeping the ball for concerted periods - we don't keep the ball that well when we're defending single goal leads in the closing minutes either.

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I think it's a combination of things, players lack of ability, Warnocks refusal to allow players to break shape, players not allowed to make themselves available for the ball, Central defenders told to hit it 40 yards, midfield by passed and only one midfielder allowed to 'play' and only in the final third. God, it's shit.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I take the point that they may have been playing to orders to some extent, but that Fulham game makes me wonder if if we are capable of keeping the ball for concerted periods - we don't keep the ball that well when we're defending single goal leads in the closing minutes either.

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If Warnock does go, say around Christmas, it will make the second half of the season very interesting if a manager with a different mindset is brought in. If this does occur you’d have thought a promise of a few bob to spend in January would be a factor in the new man joining. But the nucleus of the squad would remain and it’ll be intriguing to see them adapt and, as someone else alluded to, perhaps the rumblings of relief amongst them. All hypothetical of course but a situation I’m warming to with each performance.

If Sir Neil leaves in any other circumstances than after promotion it will be the end of a successful era and a new start altogether.
We might do that transition as a new Premiership Club, but if we're still in the Championship it'd be the start of a long period of mediocrity. The team are not playing well at the moment yet the system is protecting them from repeated hammerings, but as soon as we start playing the same as everyone else at this level there will be much bigger problems

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Originally Posted by RonnieBird

If Sir Neil leaves in any other circumstances than after promotion it will be the end of a successful era and a new start altogether.
We might do that transition as a new Premiership Club, but if we're still in the Championship it'd be the start of a long period of mediocrity. The team are not playing well at the moment yet the system is protecting them from repeated hammerings, but as soon as we start playing the same as everyone else at this level there will be much bigger problems

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I completely agree with you, the system we play is stopping us from taking a hiding, it's designed not only to stop us playing but the opposition as well. It's short term though, it's an avoidence and isn't sustainable or productive in terms of development. There isn't a club out there that plays like us that has prospered long term, certainly not in the last twenty years or so.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

I completely agree with you, the system we play is stopping us from taking a hiding, it's designed not only to stop us playing but the opposition as well. It's short term though, it's an avoidence and isn't sustainable or productive in terms of development. There isn't a club out there that plays like us that has prospered long term, certainly not in the last twenty years or so.

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Ah yes, team relegated from the PL scared to play against teams the division below, doing all they can not to lose.

Jesus wept.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

I completely agree with you, the system we play is stopping us from taking a hiding, it's designed not only to stop us playing but the opposition as well. It's short term though, it's an avoidence and isn't sustainable or productive in terms of development. There isn't a club out there that plays like us that has prospered long term, certainly not in the last twenty years or so.

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:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Our manager's frequent use of the term "bread and butter" players when talking about the central midfield area gives his feelings on that area of the pitch away, so I tend to agree - our squad has less skill and/or technical ability than average for this division, individually, they all have some ability they wouldn't be able to make careers for themselves at this level if they didn't), but, collectively I feel it falls short of what you get elsewhere.

Another very telling example of the squad's limitations came against Fulham when faced with the prospect of playing against ten men for the last quarter of the game. Fulham, who had been almost completely dominating possession, decided to hang on to the point they had and, suddenly, we had a situation where we had far more of the ball and the onus was on us to force the issue.

I think it's true to say that the classic way to play when up against ten men is to move them around by maintaining possession and making full use of all areas of the pitch, but all we did was pump high balls forward - could it be that Fulham knew we were incapable of wearing down in the classic manner and so felt they would be comfortable if they just concentrated on winning second balls, because that's how things panned out?

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Probably Monk's thinking as well during the second half...