The surly Scouser must've not reached the expectation of the people around those parts either.
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The surly Scouser must've not reached the expectation of the people around those parts either.
The sacking probably has a lot to do with that moron Jeff Stellings rant
Pool have been in freefall for a long time now, and were lucky not to disappear out of the league last season
If DJ ever comes across Stelling I hope he tears him a new arsehole!
Pressure's on Norwich...Quote:
Originally Posted by Arfur Europe
stelling the media darling is an old senile joke
Stelling wins then. He put the owners in an impossible situation. I'm sure that, with the quality of players on their books, they will stay up easily now the only problem at the club has gone away.
Dave Jones said "Get rid of me? They've got rid of Higgy, Ronnie Moore and everyone else before that. There's a common denominator here, you figure it out".
Www.pooliebunker.co.uk forum seems to support him with this statement.
Desperation time for Hartlepool. They'd averaged 1.04 points a game before he went there, but 0.89 points a game after his appointment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arfur Europe
How much of that is down to Jones is debatable. Since their relegation from League 1 in 2012-13, they've finished 19th, 22nd and 16th in the bottom tier, so the relegation threat to the National League has been real for some time. It appears that Jones has had the thankless task of being in charge of a sinking ship, though it also has to be said that his appointment hasn't given the club a "bounce" sometimes associated with a new manager.
Stats tell 20% of a story. I say 20% to highlight how arbitrary stats are. Stats are often skewed, you're a culprit quite often.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
Hartlepool sold 3 first team players in January and loaned out a few. Who decides that? At that level, it's finances, so most likely it's the owners. The manager is left with a threadbare squad, they go unbeaten for a few games, then the dead cat stops bouncing.
They won 3 in 4 in a 2 week period. What happens after that? Does Jones change the team radically? Do the players lose confidence with every bad result.
It's not as simple as 13 points out of 51. There are so many other factors involved that, using statistics alone, would be the dumbest thing anyone can do in making decisions like this.
Jones v populist TV presenter. Only one winner, and Stelling is now as responsible as anyone of Hartlepool drop.
I think the hope is for someone else (probably the assistant manager or someone else within the club) to fire the players up for one last effort. 2 points from the last 21 is relegation form, their worst form for over 2 years. The club must be thinking that they are certain to go down with Jones in charge and, while giving someone else a go might not keep them up, they have nothing to lose by trying something different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris
Will sacking him make any difference? Probably not, in my opinion. It looks like relegation rot has set in.
If you'd bothered to read what I wrote, I did question how much of Hartlepool's drop in results was down to Jones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris
I read every single irrelevant word of it. You could have looked up some of the Hartlepool happenings over the last few years to draw a more informed conclusion.
A little while ago in an interview on WalesOnline, Neil Warnock suggested that a manager's job is most important when the chips are down, when things start going wrong - the best managers are the ones that are able to turn results around quite quickly. Do you agree with this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris
Fwiw I am hoping Newport stay up. Cheltenham v 'Pool on Saturday. I am surprised by the support for Jones on here. Miserable git,although I agree we had some great times with him. Not sure why he went up North. Had never managed at that level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris
If you're suggesting that a club's problems are never as a result of the manager, whether in a small way or greater, then by the same token, there's no point clubs having managers. If Jones is responsible for 3 wins out of 4, then he's also responsible in some way for 2 points from 7 games. Make your mind up.
That isn't what I said at all. What I said was that something changed at Hartlepool following those 3 wins. And, stats are not giving us the answer. The answer lies in the changing rooms, in the psyche of players, manager, coach. It's not simply one man's problem. I think football is still a team game, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
That's not what I suggested at all. I suggest that Hartlepools problems are the same as they were 12 months and a couple of managers ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
Good to see Eric still posting his anti DJ nonsense all these years later. You're an idiot pal.
But he has the stats. Usually selected to back his argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
He really has no idea. Jones inherits bad team at bad club. Jones forced to sell 3 players and loan out others. Jones wines and dined by Stelling after 3 wins in 4. Jones criticized on national TV by same man without prior conversation.
Jones could have kept them up, reading his interview for the Northern Echo, he wasn't lacking passion. If he waved his arms more, would Eric have liked him more?
You could airdrop Mourinho at the club, they'll still go down.
Eric should check their forum, the fans know where the issues are. And it's not with Jones, Moore or any of the others.
No suprise there then
And once again your bias towards Jones clouds your thoughts in debating this with me. Same old story from years ago. Pity you won't confirm your previous identity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris
Please confirm the following:
I am not entirely blaming Jones for the position Hartlepool are in.
I have stated that Hartlepool have been struggling in League 2 for a few seasons now.
I have stated that Jones has had the thankless task of being in charge of a sinking ship.
I have said that I don't think sacking him will make any difference to Hartlepool staying up.
What I have suggested is:
Results have got marginally worse under Jones overall. Sorry if you're being sensitive to this, but that is fact. We both agree that there are many things causing this.
However, my point remains that the club probably think that things can't get any worse, that relegation is a foregone conclusion, so trying something else for the last 2 games isn't a gamble.
You can raise your blood pressure by suggesting that I'm continuing some anti-Jones tirade, but far from it. I was one of the few that thought it was time for Ranieri to go at Leicester, for similar reasons. If the club feel that changing manager doesn't represent a gamble, then the club should do it. Whether that's right or not is up to you - different people have different opinions.
I suspect you're still bitter from our debates from years ago, which I was eventually proved right on.
What are you on about? It appears that many people disagreed with you over Jones, so I may be one of those.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
You were eventually proven right on Jones? You were on his back for 3 years during which he managed what only Fred Stewart had previously achieved, a major Cup Final.
The club were always competitive during his time. Like Mackay, he had to build a team from scratch, and 2006-2011 saw the club improve year on year. 2010-11 was his last season, he knew it and he made short term decisions that season that he deserves criticism for.
Did he fail at Cardiff? Yes, eventually he did. But who hasn't?
Mackay - relegated
Jones - not promoted
Lawrence - promoted but struggled
Burrows - relegated
May - relegated after promotion
Scoular - never promoted
For any Cardiff manager of the last 70 years you could have claimed "he hasn't a clue" and eventually you'd be right. A stopped clock is right twice a day, you are right once a decade.
I have no Jones bias - I chanted for him to be sacked after the 0-3 with Charlton. you have an anti Jones agenda, credit to you for persistence.
But, FA Cup final, Loovens, Johnson, Marshall, Whittingham, Chopra, Bothroyd, Scimica, McPhail, Jerome, Ramsey, Ledley, Koumas.My memory is crap, but even I can remember some of the names.
2005-06
13th 64 points Chopra 22 goals
2007-08
12th 64 points FA Cup Finalists
7th 74 points McCormack 21 goals
4th 76 points
4th 80 points
Throughout the majority of this time, you claimed he was not very good. Based on flimsy stats over arbitrary lengths of time. Stats like Cardiffs record from coming from behind, or not doing so well in November.
2010-11 was the right time for him to go. If you had your way, he'd have gone in 2007.
Year on year Jones improved either the league position or the points tally of both. Whilst selling players. You similarly claimed that Ridsdale was responsible for signing Loovens and Chopra. Didn't you?
Mackay wasn't relegated.
His team was.
Ole brought in 6 or 7 players so that's stretching it a bit. You might as well say that Jones' team was promoted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris
Fair point, in which case Hartlepool are not Jones' team (3 loan deals, 1 for just a month) .Quote:
Originally Posted by lardy
Hartlepool lost 3 players in January - 2 defenders to L2 clubs and midfielder Laurent went to Wigan.
The three players loaned in by Jones had played a grand total of TWO league games between them. Plainly, Hartlepool have a full bladder, and no pot.
Remember when Harry Redknapp took Spurs into the Champions League? It was before - for the purpose of this story - we found out that his dodgy dealings had ruined Pompey and Southampton, that everything was in his dog's name and before we worked out that his biggest strength was the "our Harry" image he had created. A number of years on and it's desperation stuff by Brum to give him a job at the bottom of the Championship.
When DJ left here he was leaving on the back of managing over one hundred games at the fourth consecutive club, he only once had a winning percentage of less than 40%. Hartlepool however was his first club since 01/12/13 and Hartlepool picking a manager from the past - not one who had his record tarnished as much as Harry's - was desperation stuff. DJ (I say having never worked in football) was better suited to a DoF type role or part-time specialist adviser.
The most overrated manager that Cardiff City have employed in recent years IMO, a footballing dinosaur. I'd have saved Hartlepool a fortune if they they'd have asked.
The most over-rated manager that Cardiff City have employed in recent years?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelsonca61
I'd put Malky, & Ole way before Jones :thumbup:
Most successful over a long period. Who was the last manager Cardiff had for more than 2 years?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Soul '68
I now know who you are. I now know I've touched a nerve :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris
Of the entire post, you are only concerned with the last sentence :hehe:
OK. What's my surname?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
My last sentence was "Didn't you?". The sentence before was an accusatory statement. You can deny it at any time.
I'm going to take an educated guess that it's Jirga.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris
He was a pedantic little clipboard carrier too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Lecter
I think you are right.......I am not sure if he hoped that yet another name change might disguise who he is but his annoying & unfortunate traits are a bit of a give away
youre a boring, idiotic ****witQuote:
Originally Posted by Kris
Thankyou.Quote:
Originally Posted by giddyblue
cuckQuote:
Originally Posted by Kris