Saudi embassy murder in Istanbul

Sanctions.
Our Government are in a massive hole now.

We trade with a regime that has committed an evidenced murder of a US resident journalist.

Brexit is a walk in the park compared to the financial consequences of our trade with Saudi Arabia.

Will all contracts be cancelled or will we allow the financial benefits to outweigh the rule of law.



We are accomplices to this murder if we don’t react. We are assisting Saudi every day on defence contracts.

Interesting story. Much much bigger that Brexit

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Originally Posted by AlwaysAway2

Sanctions.
Our Government are in a massive hole now.

We trade with a regime that has committed an evidenced murder of a US resident journalist.

Brexit is a walk in the park compared to the financial consequences of our trade with Saudi Arabia.

Will all contracts be cancelled or will we allow the financial benefits to outweigh the rule of law.



We are accomplices to this murder if we don’t react. We are assisting Saudi every day on defence contracts.

Interesting story. Much much bigger that Brexit

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We export more to Sweden than we do to Saudi Arabia

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

We export more to Sweden than we do to Saudi Arabia

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Do Sweden buy as many Jet fighters, Tanks, Bombs, guns, and various other killing machines from BAE as our mates in Saudi Arabia? and do they make as many political donations as BAE to whatever war mongering government are in charge?

There's also your answer as to whether we carry on trading with the Saudis?

I'm sure a strongly worded letter from a sub minister will heading to Riyadh at some point

Quote:

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Originally Posted by binman

Do Sweden buy as many Jet fighters, Tanks, Bombs, guns, and various other killing machines from BAE as our mates in Saudi Arabia? and do they make as many political donations as BAE to whatever war mongering government are in charge?

There's also your answer as to whether we carry on trading with the Saudis?

I'm sure a strongly worded letter from a sub minister will heading to Riyadh at some point

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I was simply adding a fact to a view that any impact on trade with Saudi Arabia from a reaction to the ridiculous slaying of a dissident in their Embassy is unlikely to have anywhere near the impact of Brexit on our trade with the EU. We exported £37b worth of goods to Germany in 2017 compared with £4b to Saudi Arabia.

I guess given Brexit that markets with countries that kill opponents in their own Embassy might become even more important but lets have some facts before we start comparing like with like!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by binman

Do Sweden buy as many Jet fighters, Tanks, Bombs, guns, and various other killing machines from BAE as our mates in Saudi Arabia? and do they make as many political donations as BAE to whatever war mongering government are in charge?

There's also your answer as to whether we carry on trading with the Saudis?

I'm sure a strongly worded letter from a sub minister will heading to Riyadh at some point

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It goes further than that, some people have family members involved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEcMW6RmC_w

Here we go Saudi in at 23

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...United_Kingdom

The first two are very intresting EU or Non Eu .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

It goes further than that, some people have family members involved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEcMW6RmC_w

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Brilliant like well done for highlighting.

I think this Saudi Story is going to explode

For national security reasons the true trade totals with Saudi are not disclosed.
The BBC go light on this stuff because they are conflicted badly. They are funded by a government approved taxation system known as the licence fee.

While I want to highlight that some parts and people in the BBC do a brilliant job of investigative journalism. I suspect they are censored too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlwaysAway2

For national security reasons the true trade totals with Saudi are not disclosed.
The BBC go light on this stuff because they are conflicted badly. They are funded by a government approved taxation system known as the licence fee.

While I want to highlight that some parts and people in the BBC do a brilliant job of investigative journalism. I suspect they are censored too.

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That's not correct either though is it. All exports are recorded, though some are likely to be classified so that their identity is not transparent (eg aircraft exports could be civil or military). The attached official government website trumpeting the value of arms sales to our economyy shows that the UK exported around £4.3b worth of arms worldwide in 2016 of which 58% went to the Middle East as a whole (so about £2.5b). Orders of around £5.9b worldwide were placed in that year.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...stics-for-2016

The average export figures for 1999-2016 are on the interactive map of the ONS official website attached. Though there are more up to date figures for 2017 which I quoted yesterday.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindus...ith/2017-02-21

So the total contributions of our arms exports worldwide is still less than our annual exports to Sweden!

There are significant issues around how we engage with countries such as Saudi Arabia and Russia given their treatment of dissenters but lets not get how important these countries are to our economic well being out of proportion when making comparisons with Brexit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

That's not correct either though is it. All exports are recorded, though some are likely to be classified so that their identity is not transparent (eg aircraft exports could be civil or military). The attached official government website trumpeting the value of arms sales to our economyy shows that the UK exported around £4.3b worth of arms worldwide in 2016 of which 58% went to the Middle East as a whole (so about £2.5b). Orders of around £5.9b worldwide were placed in that year.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...stics-for-2016

The average export figures for 1999-2016 are on the interactive map of the ONS official website attached. Though there are more up to date figures for 2017 which I quoted yesterday.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindus...ith/2017-02-21

So the total contributions of our arms exports worldwide is still less than our annual exports to Sweden!

There are significant issues around how we engage with countries such as Saudi Arabia and Russia given their treatment of dissenters but lets not get how important these countries are to our economic well being out of proportion when making comparisons with Brexit.

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FAIR PLAY on that.

You are well informed and I certainly bow to your greater knowledge on this.:thumbup:

Liam Fox can’t go to Riyadh

If you are right and our trade is not that important. Severe sanctions must follow surely.

We are so weak on Sanctions. They are also a dangerous weapon.

The reason our banks and major companies are being cyber attacked is the simple Russian response to our Sanctions.
Fair play to them I suggest. We feck about with them and their economy and they feck about with ours.

Interesting new warfare.

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Originally Posted by AlwaysAway2

Liam Fox can’t go to Riyadh

If you are right and our trade is not that important. Severe sanctions must follow surely.

We are so weak on Sanctions. They are also a dangerous weapon.

The reason our banks and major companies are being cyber attacked is the simple Russian response to our Sanctions.
Fair play to them I suggest. We feck about with them and their economy and they feck about with ours.

Interesting new warfare.

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Don't get me wrong I think that the trade is important and is likely to be more so if the stated aim is to build new and grow existing trading relationships as we focus away from the European Union. In some ways this might weaken the UK's response given its aims for the future and the amount of investment the Saudi's make in London's financial and property markets.

While any mrder is unjustifiable remember that this man knew the risk he was taking as shown by his instruction to his woman, and also that if he was murdered then the murder did not happen in Turkey. He may just as easily have been arrested and renditioned to Saudi Arabia.
We are told there is proof but no one is rushing to reveal it.

If the UK Government and the US accept the explanation given today and it’s all okay then I give up on justice.

Why was his body hacked to pieces and removed?

Fight my arse! This is Trumps first real credibility problem.

Attitude seems to be
Shame about Mr K
Move on.

Mind boggling.

The uk is fairly toothless when it comes to any sanctions
The only country that could impose meaningful sanctions would be the US

I’m not sure why we consider that the uk should be a leading any sanctions at all tbf
It’s not like we’ve got any gunboats we can send up the Suez is it
In imo it will all come down to notes, wagging fingers and hot air posturing


More interesting is the trend from Saudi related in the way it is repositioning itself as a major international influence both economically and politically

Without trying to derail the discussion, I'd just like to mention that British people have probably been taken out by British intelligence on British soil. I'd imagine other countries are a lot worse though, but those are the unofficial rules of the game. However they don't usually get caught in such dramatic fashion, and the whole thing is quite mind-boggling. Whoever thought this one up is an idiot. It's almost as though they wanted to get caught.

The thought that they wanted to get caught has crossed my mind more than once.
They have certainly fired a serious warning shot against journalists that criticise their regime. Furthermore I think they are going to get away with it.

Public reaction and interest in the tragic story will either grow or wither.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlwaysAway2

Sanctions.
Our Government are in a massive hole now.

We trade with a regime that has committed an evidenced murder of a US resident journalist.

Brexit is a walk in the park compared to the financial consequences of our trade with Saudi Arabia.

Will all contracts be cancelled or will we allow the financial benefits to outweigh the rule of law.



We are accomplices to this murder if we don’t react. We are assisting Saudi every day on defence contracts.

Interesting story. Much much bigger that Brexit

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Do agree, big spying partner in that area as well as trade and oil supply , need to be careful what we wish for .

Do need to punish though.