Asked on a thread, how many points has Neil Etheridge gained us this year?

Are there any stats like this available?
I know PL attackers have such stats for how many points their goals have gotten teams..so surely someone has the information?

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

Are there any stats like this available?
I know PL attackers have such stats for how many points their goals have gotten teams..so surely someone has the information?

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I guess it would be a difficult one to gauge. A striker scoring a goal, simple or extraordinary, to change the result gets the credit for it. If a goalkeeper makes a routine save, does that constitute gaining points for the team? Does this extend to having to make a save that most keepers wouldn't make? Would punching away a corner that would have been surely headed in count?

Strikers miss easy chances; if goalkeepers fail to make easy saves or make mistakes, the result is usually conceding a goal. Often a good goalkeeper that rarely makes mistakes goes relatively unnoticed. When they make world class saves they then get more recognition. How do you judge all of that and determine whether a keeper has gained points for a team? You can't just do it on saves alone. It's tricky.

Perhaps there should be something like xS - expected saves. I'm not sure if xG allows for the division the team is in. 25 yarders are far more common in the Premier League than League 2, so to expect goals to be scored from similar situations in higher divisions doesn't work. It would be the same with xS. That would be an interesting, if not by any means foolproof, way of showing which goalkeepers are the best shot stoppers. Saying that, the Birmingham miss from the corner would probably have gone in 99 times out of a hundred. The finisher made such a hash of it that it would no doubt hugely boost a goalkeeper's xS stats, when that goalkeeper would have no right to them!

I didn't think it would be that straight forward, as obviously goals scored are much easier to work out the points gained.

It wouldn't be as straight forward as being 2-1 up and making a wonder save in the 92nd minute..would he have saved them 2 Points?

I was just bored and curious in work while the machine was doing it's thing and thought there may be something out There, I've tried to search the same on De Gea for United as I'm positive I saw some stat before. Can't find feck all so I'm gonna get my head down!!

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

I didn't think it would be that straight forward, as obviously goals scored are much easier to work out the points gained.

It wouldn't be as straight forward as being 2-1 up and making a wonder save in the 92nd minute..would he have saved them 2 Points?

I was just bored and curious in work while the machine was doing it's thing and thought there may be something out There, I've tried to search the same on De Gea for United as I'm positive I saw some stat before. Can't find feck all so I'm gonna get my head down!!

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I think it's a fascinating question, though.

And I take the opportunity to apologise for doubting Etheridge in the early part of the season. He has developed into an excellent keeper. Long may it continue.

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Originally Posted by jeremy corbyn

And I take the opportunity to apologise for doubting Etheridge in the early part of the season. He has developed into an excellent keeper. Long may it continue.

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Same here. He must be a contender for most improved player of the season.

I think he has been virtually faultless since he returned to the team for the home match with Sunderland - are there any keepers in our division anyone would swap him for on current form?

If Eric can't then nobody can but fair play he had a dodgy start but by Christ has he come good

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

I think it's a fascinating question, though.

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:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I think he has been virtually faultless since he returned to the team for the home match with Sunderland - are there any keepers in our division anyone would swap him for on current form?

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Agreed. I was slightly surprised to see him back after being dropped for just the one game, especially as Murphy never lets us down when called upon, but as you say he's been nigh on flawless.

He has got better and better as he has made the shirt his own. Camp leaving has pushed him to another level again!

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Originally Posted by jeremy corbyn

And I take the opportunity to apologise for doubting Etheridge in the early part of the season. He has developed into an excellent keeper. Long may it continue.

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Same here.

I was exactly the same and I’m happy to eat humble pie.

A goalkeeper canntot 'gain' points unless he takes the penalties, but he surely can save them.

So how many times has he saved an almost certain goal when the backs have fecked up and left him to cope? Like when the player had all the goal and chose the wrong way. He could have tried to move to cover the goal but he didn't and got it right.
It's when the defence is beaten, caught flat footed or nutmegged and he makes the critical save from an almost certain goal, that's when you could say he, and he alone has saved us points.
Maybe Eric could work on that lol :hehe:

I don't have an answer to your question, but there is some limited info on whoscored.com where a poor comparison can be made.

Using data on number of saves made on average per game, goals conceded and shots conceded per game, some information can be obtained by having a fiddle with Excel.

Less shots on our goal go in than at any other club in the Championship. Less than 7.5% of all shots we face end up in the back of our net. Worst are Sunderland, where almost 13% of attempts end up in the Mackem's net. It's maybe not surprising that the better teams concede less goals per shots faced than the poorer teams in the division.

Etheridge makes 2.2 saves per game according to whoscored. That's the fourth lowest number of saves per game in the division. 2.2 saves a game says nothing unless used in conjunction of the number of shots faced in a game. This suggests Etheridge saves 19.4% of shots faced. This is below the divisional average of 21.4%, but even that doesn't really give an accurate reflection of Etheridge as a shot stopper. If you incorporate shots blocked as well as saved, we're closer to the divisional average. It all suggests that our goalkeeper has less to do than most other keepers in the division because we're so strong defensively.

In terms of shots saved that have been taken inside the box, Etheridge has saved 13.4%, only bettered by 6 goalkeepers. In terms of shots saved that have been taken outside the box, Etheridge has saved 6.25% - only 3 keepers have worse save percentages from outside the box.

As I say, there's some flaky stats here that might mean something or nothing depending on your viewpoint. Nothing makes it look like Etheridge is a top goalkeeper at this level in terms of what he saves, but that hardly tells the whole story.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

I don't have an answer to your question, but there is some limited info on whoscored.com where a poor comparison can be made.

Using data on number of saves made on average per game, goals conceded and shots conceded per game, some information can be obtained by having a fiddle with Excel.

Less shots on our goal go in than at any other club in the Championship. Less than 7.5% of all shots we face end up in the back of our net. Worst are Sunderland, where almost 13% of attempts end up in the Mackem's net. It's maybe not surprising that the better teams concede less goals per shots faced than the poorer teams in the division.

Etheridge makes 2.2 saves per game according to whoscored. That's the fourth lowest number of saves per game in the division. 2.2 saves a game says nothing unless used in conjunction of the number of shots faced in a game. This suggests Etheridge saves 19.4% of shots faced. This is below the divisional average of 21.4%, but even that doesn't really give an accurate reflection of Etheridge as a shot stopper. If you incorporate shots blocked as well as saved, we're closer to the divisional average. It all suggests that our goalkeeper has less to do than most other keepers in the division because we're so strong defensively.

In terms of shots saved that have been taken inside the box, Etheridge has saved 13.4%, only bettered by 6 goalkeepers. In terms of shots saved that have been taken outside the box, Etheridge has saved 6.25% - only 3 keepers have worse save percentages from outside the box.

As I say, there's some flaky stats here that might mean something or nothing depending on your viewpoint. Nothing makes it look like Etheridge is a top goalkeeper at this level in terms of what he saves, but that hardly tells the whole story.

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Thanks for that, goes to show I'll never really get an answer and I was stretching a bit with my initial question.

Some interesting stats There, and the best point made there was stats don't always reflect performance.

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

Thanks for that, goes to show I'll never really get an answer and I was stretching a bit with my initial question.

Some interesting stats There, and the best point made there was stats don't always reflect performance.

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Quite. Take David Marshall when we were in the Premier League. We had one of the worst defences in the top flight which enabled him to make more saves per game than the other goalkeepers. Goalkeepers must be one of the hardest to analyse statistically.

Not taking anything away from Etheridge but he has benefited enormously from having a good defence in front of him. He is a better keeper for it.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Quite. Take David Marshall when we were in the Premier League. We had one of the worst defences in the top flight which enabled him to make more saves per game than the other goalkeepers. Goalkeepers must be one of the hardest to analyse statistically.

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Our defence the year we went up conceded 45 goals. So far we have conceded 31 with 9 games left so should realistically beat that..what I'm getting at is our defence is overall better now than it was then.. I'm hoping with a few smart additions we won't leak like we did last time around in the prem.

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

Our defence the year we went up conceded 45 goals. So far we have conceded 31 with 9 games left so should realistically beat that..what I'm getting at is our defence is overall better now than it was then.. I'm hoping with a few smart additions we won't leak like we did last time around in the prem.

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I also think that we have more in attack than we did when we got promoted (before Cornelius was added to it!)

If we can sort midfield out, and we can win promotion, there's no reason why we can't have a relatively successful season (I'll accept winning the title, but staying up will be fine as well....)

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

I also think that we have more in attack than we did when we got promoted (before Cornelius was added to it!)

If we can sort midfield out, and we can win promotion, there's no reason why we can't have a relatively successful season (I'll accept winning the title, but staying up will be fine as well....)

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We obviously need to add, but I agree we are better both defensively and in attacking than 12/13.

The first thing people I speak to say is "you lot will need to spend a fair bit" I disagree though. I think we need strengthening in midfield yes, and through the core of the team, tbis doesn't have to cost 50 million mind.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I think he has been virtually faultless since he returned to the team for the home match with Sunderland - are there any keepers in our division anyone would swap him for on current form?

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I'm struggling to think of anyone I'd swap him with. Maybe Westwood, Ruddy or Randolph but only a maybe.