I've also heard that Bob is on the verge of buying a whole village in the Rhondda too! #crazytimes
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I know these kids are far too young to affect our first team but having read how the academy has "been badly run for years" blah blah blah I just want to comment how well some of the younger kids have been doing of late.
On Sunday the younger groups played Swansea in year of birth games (the European system)
2008 won 14-13
2007 won 11-1
2006 won 6-2
2005 won 8-0
The week before the under 14s went to arsenal and won 4-1 against a team featuring the next wonder kid Omari Hutchinson.
The same day the u11s beat Arsenal 9-1 a result that is unheard of by any team against Arsenal.
It's a shame City didn't start playing till 12.15. They were 2-0 down by then and never looked like getting back into it, finished 3-0 but it could've been worse. A bit like some of the early season games today, five trialists playing and a few square pegs in round holes which made it chaotic to the point where it didn't seem fair on anyone (spectators included).
Trialist Corey Watson, who looks like a midfielder, started at centre back so centre half Connor Young started in centre mid. Once Watson had been bullied off the ball for their second goal they swapped places but the damage had been done. Another trialist, Michael Gyasi, couldn't get in the game on the right wing and both him and Watson were subbed at half time. Gyasi might have been happier in centre mid but Mark Harris was there, making no impression at all having looked good up front last week. Ogo Obi played up front this week and made no impression himself. Only in the last ten minutes did all our players find positions they looked comfortable with and we played some nice stuff then with Harris coming alive having moved forward.
I don't want to pre-empt TOBW's blog too much but there's definitely a big change in the style of play at that level. The playing out from the back and short passing moves have largely gone, there's a recognisable similarity between their style of play and the first team's which is logical I suppose. The problem today (not helped by a strong wind) was that the quick early balls from the back were terrible, Obi tried to make so many leads from off the shoulder of the last defender but no one could put the ball into the twenty yards of space ahead of him. Not that he did much when he got the ball but it's very hard for the front three to make any impact when the service is so poor.
Blackburn were excellent but it was a bad day at the office today. Paul McKay looked good at the back again, Abbruzzese and Coxe stuck at it but there was a lack of quality all round.
I'm not going to do a blog piece on yesterdays game because I'm going to be pretty busy all day.
I'm always not sure whether people say "excellent post" because they genuinely think it is very good or because they agree with it, so I'll just say that you've covered virtually everything I would have said there right down to Watson's struggles at centreback, Blackburn being good and your opinion on the style of play these days from the Under 23s.
Like you, I thought both full backs did pretty well under trying circumstances and I left thinking that if the pair of them do not even seem to be considered for the first team when we have five senior players in their position out with injuries, when will they ever be? If they are not in Neil Warnock's plans at all at this time in their development, is there any point in keeping them here?
I don't have the team sheet to hand at the moment, so I can't give you his name, but the trialist number eight quite impressed me - I hope he gets another chance with us.
Tom Walters. Did ok but it was a shocking pass from him that led to their third goal. Hard to judge anyone on yesterday's game though.
I agree with you about the full backs. I've said before that the Mansfield home game was the chance to give one of them a game but Warnock brought Bennett back in (even though the plan was to rest him) and said he had no choice. I was speculating yesterday how many of those two plus Veale, Harris and Waite will still be here next season. One, two at the most I reckon, we'll see. Ollie Byrne has already gone, to Blackburn. No sign of Meite lately. They obviously haven't finished the rebuilding at that level yet.
How do the under-18s set up these days, by the way? Any sign of them being made to play in a more direct style?
If there is such a thing as a six pointer at Development team level, then today's match with Ipswich is probably it - City were in the running for the end of season Play Offs in the last table I saw, but Ipswich were holding second spot behind runaway leaders Palace. According to the club website, there has been a change to the advertised venue - the match is down to take place at the Vale at 2 o clock.
Sorry, I didn't see this until I went to post that message about today's game.
No, I can't say I've noticed a change of approach from the Under 18s, they still seek to build from the back, but it almost seems like a separate project from their seniors this season given that there appears to be no progression from it into the Development side, let alone the first team.
2-1 win today which keeps us in the hunt for the 2nd play off spot. Here's the table, around eight games to go. Tough games coming up though.
https://www.flashscores.co.uk/footba...gue/standings/
Started with a kind of 4-1-4-1 formation today with Keenan Patten sitting and Mark Harris, Rhys Healey, Sion Spence and Jamie Ward behind Ogo Obi. Healey took an early knock which he tried to play through but only lasted 20 minutes. There was talk of it being a dead leg which seemed to interest Jamie Ward.
'Rhys, you're going off with a dead leg? You're soft as shit'
Unfortunately, Rhys wasn't in the mood to get on Ward's banter bus and went straight back to the changing room.
We were 2-0 up at half time, a nice shot on the turn from Mark Harris and a penalty from Obi. Nearly impossible to play any football in a gale force wind but we deserved the lead and were holding on comfortably enough until Jamie Veale, just back from injury, got hurt by a wild tackle which put us down to 10 men. We let in a goal near the end but held on.
Nice to see Patten and Spence there. Tough for Spence to make an impression but he did some good things, Obi should've scored from his set-up in the first half. Patten looked very tidy. Ward lasted around an hour before coming off, worked hard and seemed fit enough.
I was going to post this a few days ago but didn't. Does anyone actually think that these youngsters will get anywhere near the first team? We see these kind of articles every year and none of them seem to make any impression. Or is it more of WalesOnline posting articles for the sake of it?
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...rdiff-14340162
Someone e-mailed me that a few days ago with a comment on how poorly researched it was - I agreed with him.
Margetson has played for Under 23s this season, but, generally speaking, has been unable to get a starting place in the Under 18 side most of the time - the same is true to a lesser extent with Wooton. Burwood played for the Under 23s yesterday, as did Spence, and seems to have established himself as first choice for the Under 18s recently, while I can remember seeing Bodenham play very well in his first match for the Under 23s about a year ago.
For me, Spence, who has scored twenty one times I think it is now for the Under 18s this season, is the one with the best chance among those five and he would have been a sub in our final game of last season up at Huddersfield if there had not been a problem with his insurance, but I don't think anyone who watches Under 18 football regularly would come up with those five names if they were asked who were the best young prospects at the club.
Here's my report on yesterday's Development team game.
http://mauveandyellowarmy.net/
Thanks for the response, and it was exactly as I suspected. I got the same impression that the article wasn't entirely accurate or worthwhile. But I always get intrigued by these kind of articles as I'd love to see more youth development from the club.
I follow your blog posts about the U23s and U18s with keen interest, and often wonder when the next local talent will come along to break in to the first team.
Healey took a knock very early on. He tried to run it off but was limping noticeably and after a mistake which nearly led to a goal was taken off. He looked very unhappy, it's been a desperate 12 months for him.
It was a shame that Spence ended up playing wide in the second half, he doesn't look that comfortable there. With only three outfield subs it was going to be hard to keep everyone in a favoured position but having waited so long for a shot at the under-23s again, I'm sure Spence would've liked to have stayed more central. I thought they could've stuck Rowe out wide instead but I'm sure they had their reasons. As you said, it was hard to make any impression in those conditions so I guess it wouldn't have made much difference.
There's a match at Cardiff City Stadium tonight, the club's Twitter feed has confirmed that the Development team are playing Bolton,kick off 7 o clock.
3-0 loss tonight. Bolton are well clear in their league so not an unexpected result but there's very little positive to say about the game. We had a few players out but the trialists and youngsters who replaced them made little impression, we only had one shot on target in each half. James Waite had a terrific effort tipped over early in the second half and he was the stand-out performer but he had little support. Ridiculously cold, shame this game didn't get called off too.
Bolton reminded me of the Preston team that came here and won just after Christmas - poor, but still quite a bit better than us. I can remember reading somewhere that the Bolton team of the 50s were very much a "take no prisoners" outfit and it seems to me that many of their teams since then have had the same philosophy. Bolton weren't too particular about whether they played the man or the ball in the early stages and, to add to all of the other factors which made the match a really poor watch, there was also the fact that it never really flowed because of all the stoppages for fouls.
The longest stoppage came when Paul McKay was stretchered off with what looked like a bad injury - there was a foul by a Bolton player, but that was given for a tackle seconds after McKay was injured and, on just the one viewing, it doesn't look like the injury was caused by a poor challenge,
I've not looked up the names of the assortment of trialists on show yet, but I thought the number 10 looked pretty useful for a while before fading and the tiny number eleven looked to have some ability.
I agree completely with your summing up, Waite was our best player.
A quick update. Having lost three games in a row, 4-0, 3-0 and 3-0, the under-23s won two away games in three days last week, 3-0 at Colchester and 4-0 at Watford. A bizarre set of results and if you've been betting on both teams to score you're well out of pocket but it's good to see some goals going in for us. Mark Harris got two in the first game and Ogo Obi scored three over the two games. Ibrahim Meite is back and scored in the Watford game. The usual mix of trialists and regulars, still work in progress at that level.
A quick look at how some of our former youngsters are doing. The close season will see a lot of these lads move up and down the leagues and while none of them are playing at a higher level than us yet, there are a couple showing the potential to possibly do that at some point.
Ashley Baker has just signed a two and a half year contract extension at Sheffield Wednesday and is in line to make his first team debut before the end of the season. Tom James has made 49 appearances for Yeovil and seems set for a move in the summer. Semi Ajayi has made 39 appearances for Rotherham and they have made the League 1 play offs, Deji Oshilaja has been a regular in the AFC Wimbledon side and, in League 2, David Tutonda has established himself in the Barnet team as they battle against relegation.
Regan Poole has struggled on loan at Northampton and has dropped out of the picture there recently, Ben Nugent has made 27 appearances for Gillingham and Rollin Menayese has been playing for Swindon, on loan from Bristol Rovers (he was recently sent off at Newport). Josh Yorwerth has played 41 times for Crawley, keepers Luke O'Reilly and Ollie Byrne are at Spurs and Blackburn respectively, Eli Phipps is in Colchester's under-23 side & Marco Weymans is playing in Belgium's First Division B for Tubize.
In the National League, Luke Coulson has scored 10 in 46 from midfield for Ebbsfleet, Danny Johnson 13 in 36 for Gateshead while Tommy O'Sullivan has struggled to get games for Torquay, on loan from Colchester.
At the next level down, Theo Wharton has made little impact at York while Gethyn Hill has scored 18 for Weston Super Mare alongside Jarrad Welch, who has been playing regularly recently. Jazzi Barnum-Bobb is at play-off bound Chelmsford while Robbie Patten is at Chippenham. Hereford will be at that level too next season, Jamie Bird has been playing for them.
I'm sure there are others I've forgotten (or can't track down), stick your own ones up if you think of any.
Not a former player but Rhys Healey scored on his loan debut for Torquay before being sent off in a subsequent game.
I'm also curious to know how Tyrone Duffus is doing at Hereford. He looked good for our U23's and started well at Hereford but I think was injured early in his loan spell.
Duffus went back to Hereford having recovered from a hamstring injury but went off after half an hour of his comeback game, a knee injury I think. I saw him on crutches at the CCS in January so I assume his season was over then. I agree with you, he did look good for us and I'd like to think he'll be back here next season.
I mentioned Rhys Healey on here the other night. He got a hat-trick on Tuesday in a shambolic Torquay home defeat against Guiseley, who had a player sent off after 3 minutes but still won 4-3. Rhys was described as admirable but then I've never seen a bad word said about him as a player or a person during any of his loan spells. Of course he should be scoring at that level but he always applies himself wherever he goes and seems to earn a lot of respect. I pointed out that he's now played in the top five divisions (as well as the Scottish and Welsh Premier Leagues) but, largely due to his injuries, we're still not quite sure what his level is. He deserves some luck, hopefully he'll push on next season.
I see Baker was an unused sub at Wolves for Sheffield Wednesday yesterday - hopefully, he'll get some game time next week.
Apparently that's eight times across the season that he's made the bench for a Wednesday league game which would suggest he isn't merely making the bench because of a rare collection of injuries. He's also just signed a two and a half year contract extension.
Did you feel we let him go too early? Or has he merely bloomed since leaving us?
Bit of an odd one this. Wednesday only needed a point to win their under-23s league on Friday but Baker was pulled out of that to join up with the first team squad and then left on the bench. The under-23s lost 2-1 which not only cost them the title but second place too (Notts Forest overtook them on goal difference while Bolton won the league) so they didn't even make the play-offs. Apparently, Baker was due to make his first team debut recently but fell ill on the day of the game. Maybe next week, as you say.
Jarrad Welch scored (another) good goal yesterday in a man of the match performance for Weston. I never saw him play here but I remember you saying you rated him. I know Des Parrot was impressed with him at Cinderford last season and said he'd had a trial at Bournemouth. He seemed to leave here under a cloud but he's establishing himself at non-league level now, I wonder if a bigger club will come in for him in the close season.
Maybe we didn't let him go, it might be that Wednesday offered him a better deal? If it was our decision not to offer him a new contract, then I'm surprised, because I always thought he was among the best players in that particular group of Academy youngsters.
WALES YOUNGSTERS HEAD TO THE SLOVAKIA CUP
(Lots more details in the link)...
http://www.faw.cymru/en/news/wales-y...en/news/&pos=1
u19s Squad
George Ratcliffe (CARDIFF CITY)
Adam Przybek (WEST BROMWICH ALBION)
Connor Davies (CARDIFF CITY)
Ryan Reynolds (CARDIFF CITY)
Jay Foulston (NEWPORT COUNTY)
Morgan Boyes (LIVERPOOL)
Nico Williams (LIVERPOOL)
Brandon Cooper (SWANSEA CITY)
Luke Jephcott (PLYMOUTH ARGYLE)
Pablo Martinez (WEST BROMWICH ALBION)
Keenan Patten (CARDIFF CITY)
Isaak Davies (CARDIFF CITY)
Jack Vale (BLACKBURN ROVERS)
Rueben Duncan (MILLWALL)
Elliott Thorpe (TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR)
Callum Watts (SOUTHAMPTON)
Ben Cabango (SWANSEA CITY)
Mason Jones Thomas (SWANSEA CITY)
Sam Bowen (CARDIFF CITY)
Lewis Collins (NEWPORT COUNTY)
His talent is to be honest irrelevant.
The question is how many would be above him with regards to playing in the first team; I recall he's more a right back so Peltier, Manga, Richards etc. It's silly to keep someone on just for the sake of it.
EDIT: Loramski's post from 26th April just shows the club have been effectively right in releasing players we have, regards of people's views on them.
It shows there's a vast gulf between Academy levels and real football.
Five of those started on Tuesday in the Cup Final and Reynolds came on as a sub - Connor Davies is only 16 according to that Wales Online article and I would have thought Patten, Isaak Davies or Bowen were seventeen at most.
No Sion Spence I see, I know he's not eighteen until October and I'd be very surprised if he has been dropped - maybe he'll be involved with the Under 21s if they're playing this month?
Not as many as I'd like to due to work.
The reality is that players can be released due to not being good enough, players can be released due to being in a position where we're already strong.
So far, it's hard to claim the club have made massive mistakes when there are next to no released players making an impact at this level.
Don't forget though the DVP team has been playing the whole season with trialists. We've also ended up recruiting centre backs who I think might even be a tad older than Baker. Perhaps we should be speculating a little longer?
One thing the club hasn't done since the Adam Matthews is claw back some of the investment made from the player's development. Did we even get anything for Declan John? Maybe allowing players to leave on a free is the reality, but I'd like to see us at least angling for sell-on fees if the players come good. I hope we have done that with John at Rangers.
The obvious conclusion is that the club are perhaps trying to raise the standard bar, so the youngsters know if they haven't pushed themselves to certain levels at a certain age they are cut. Sending out a message to the younger age groups.
I do think the Wales u21s needs a big re-think in the middle of the pitch, which seems to be letting the rest of the system down. I think Robbie Burton will be brought into the next u21s camp after just earning a pro deal at Arsenal. But he's playing deeper in midfield than he was a couple of years ago. Going off the top of my head, there's also Matt Smith, Joe Morrell and Alex Babos (haven't seen play), who could play in the 8 or 10 positions. Page does play a man in the hole so it's possible Spence is in his thinking.
Should James Waite also be in Page's thoughts? I don't remember him ever getting international recognition.
EDIT: regarding Spence. This Wales squad is I think a preperation for u19 qualifiers much later in the year. So perhaps the selection is with the next 18 months in mind and creating cohesion with the next crop. So players who might be pushed up to the u21s beyond the current qualifers, which end this autumn, will miss out on this squad. At least that's my guess.
Whilst that would be a nicety, John failed to do anything at League One level. Nobody wanted to buy him so all we could do was look at him as being a reduction on the wage bill.
I agree with Warnock's view on the DVP. You learn nothing playing against same age due to so many youngsters flaming out. Someone can look amazing at same age group, be shit when playing at higher levels.Quote:
The obvious conclusion is that the club are perhaps trying to raise the standard bar, so the youngsters know if they haven't pushed themselves to certain levels at a certain age they are cut. Sending out a message to the younger age groups.
I always though Waite was Thai...Quote:
I do think the Wales u21s needs a big re-think in the middle of the pitch, which seems to be letting the rest of the system down. I think Robbie Burton will be brought into the next u21s camp after just earning a pro deal at Arsenal. But he's playing deeper in midfield than he was a couple of years ago. Going off the top of my head, there's also Matt Smith, Joe Morrell and Alex Babos (haven't seen play), who could play in the 8 or 10 positions. Page does play a man in the hole so it's possible Spence is in his thinking.
Should James Waite also be in Page's thoughts? I don't remember him ever getting international recognition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Waite
Your last sentence is the one that it is hard to argue against, but, although people say that it's a shit league and a shit club, Declan John's career seems to have advanced since he moved to Rangers (Forrest of Celtic ran amok in the Old Firm game over the weekend, but I've seen Declan deal with him quite well a couple of times this season). Tom James seems to be earning himself a move up the league ladder at Yeovil - I really don't think the gap between Academy football and what you call real football is as large as you make it out to be, I accept that a youngster may only get the one chance to shine in the first team and it's a case of sink or swim, but ours all seem to be deemed to be sinkers these days without being chucked in the deep end!
The overwhelming majority of Academy players, regardless of club, are "sinkers" though. That's the reality of football, finding that gem is very much the exception.
Declan John was played at numerous positions at lower level and failed in every one. His career may well have advanced but at a poor level. Nothing in his Rangers career indicated we made the wrong decision in getting rid of him.
James may well have found his natural level. Until his career progresses, difficult to say.
Reality is, of the player we've released, all have gravitated downwards. People point to a Regan Poole, Man Utd loaned him out to Northampton where he can't even get a regular place - plus being moved into midfield.
I just find it hard to believe any manager would willingly not play a youngster if that youngster could save them precious money in a limited budget.
Have to admit, I don't recall him ever getting a call up. Wales could have done with his mould of player in recent games. I feel he should get a cap while the chance is there and the upcoming games are fairly meaningless. Though Page may feel the pressure, he should really take the chance to experiment because what he has been doing has not been working. Think he has defender turned manager syndrome whereby he is too concerned about being conservative.
There is another name I should mention coming up at Man U - Dylan Levitt may be another candidate for a shot at the 8 / 10. One to look out for.
Tom James rumours to the championship won't go away. Another rumour in the papers today about a move to the Wurzels. Remains to be seen, but hopefully he gets a good move up and takes it.
I think Cardiff's record of turning players into pros is a lot better than our fans give credit for. There are a lot of young ex Cardiff pros out there now. I'm sure one or two will come good.
The key problems seem to be - One, blooding youngsters for an upper championship club or above is getting harder by the season due to the growing competativeness of the leagues. Two, it's even harder for us because our academy doesn't have the status of the clubs above us, so are quality isn't there throughout and loaning clubs are looking to PL teams for loans.
There seems to be an issue with the initial couple of seasons that a player gets games. Loaning clubs would rather nuture their own assets ideally. Top clubs can't risk playing inexperienced players in high pressure games. David Brooks was given away by Man City. But what would his value be now? And yet had he stayed, then he might well have just been a another young player who still hasn't played a pro game that most people haven't heard of and has no value. Playing games and opportunities is the key, which is why I think TOBW is spot on.
One more point to add. Potential is potential and isn't really malleable. But I believe you need to put in your 10000 hours before you give that potential a chance. I think this is part of TOBW's point. Players need experience and opportunity.
Which players though? We're one point clear in second place, are you saying Warnock should have weakened the team at some point by playing youngsters he didn't think were good enough just because it would've been a nice thing to do? It's not realistic. Even two of the youngsters who eventually did force their way in here, Rhys Healey and Kadeem Harris, have been deemed surplus to requirements for the run-in. If there are better players than those two in the DVP side at present then I haven't seen them, even League 2 sides didn't take any of them on loan in January.
I'm all for bringing youngsters through but they've got to be of a standard. Just playing them won't make them world beaters. Ben Nugent, Aaron Wildig and Declan John all got a chance here but it still didn't work out for them. We sent players like Tommy O'Sullivan and Jazzi Barnum-Bobb out on loan to league clubs, where did that opportunity and experience get them?
Warnock (as with Slade before him) doesn't play the kind of football that will encourage the youngsters we're bringing through but until there's some genuine quality there it's hard to be critical of him for not playing them, even though I'd love to agree with you and TOBW on this.