It may well do, or the Obama holdovers are still in key positions of power and can make things go away. Remember how Blair recently got off with a tapped wrist in the WOMD inquiry. By your logic, he was innocent of any wrongdoing.
Printable View
Getting back to the thread ,I'm ready for a no deal , stockpiled my food ready for an early
election, I cant wait to listen to the posturing of both sides , as the election will be a Brexit one , such fun .
Because, it is plainly obvious, a large number of people have changed their opinions based on the facts that have come to light since June 23rd 2016. So far, I think the only victory that the Brexiteers have been able to cheer is the colour of the passport. We have seen Liam Fox go in front of Presidents like Duterte and saying "We have shared values". All to court favour with backwater countries in a desperate attempt to replace the expected loss of trade with the EU.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a7667711.html
Have you seen the impact assessments? Do you think that every one of those who voted to leave the EU voted to leave with the strong possibility of there being no deal? Remember, we were being told that Europe needed us more than we needed them, German car manufacturers needed us, etc etc, in the run up to the last referendum.
No deal will mean those people who shorted the pound on June 23rd will get a chance to make more profit. That's the sort of people who want a no deal brexit. The amusing thing is, they have tricked some of Joe Public into thinking it will be good for them too.
A no deal Brexit will do what to manufacturing and agriculture in the UK? I'd like to know, and W-B has all the answers.
Dominic Frisby (Money Week) makes a strong case for the benefits of leaving the single market in an interview with Adam Boulton on Sky News.
https://forums.digitalspy.com/discus...mment/90774087
Just goes to show that no one can claim that the 52 per cent speak with a united voice once you start looking beyond the basic yes/no question in a referendum where the quality of debate was abysmal on both sides.
Remain's project fear almost made me a leave voter, but then you see things like this which make me glad I wasn't.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ave-vote-leave
The quality of debate was shit, let's be fair. My position at the time was that my default position was to remain and it was up to the leavers to convince mt that leaving was going to improve on what we already had.
It's interesting that you view the remain campaign as being project fear. I thought the remain campaign focused too much on the negatives of leaving, and not the positives of staying. Some of Cameron's claims were fanciful, how that cretin ever made it to Tory leader is amazing, but then the Tories haven't had a good leader since John Major.
I saw the leave campaign as being equally about project fear. The millions of Albanians and Turks, the Europe army and all that jazz was equally about striking fear into the populace.
I know people that voted leave purely on immigration. I also know people who voted leave believing that a trade deal with the EU was a mere formality. Some of those people have changed their minds - mainly due to the fact that the leavers who promised milk and honey are nowhere near the decision making process, and it is obvious we are now at a crossroads - no deal, or no brexit. I can't see any other alternatives. As for a trade deal with America - don't make me laugh. That is not going to be anywhere near as beneficial if it happens.
Farage is busy advising his mates to short the pound.
I think anyone who is arguing for the status quo in any membership referendum is on dodgy ground because they have nothing shiny and new to offer, but I agree that remain needed to be more positive, because some of their claims were ridiculous when it came to what a leave vote would mean.
I like to think of myself as reasonably intelligent, but, more than in any election I've voted in, I felt I didn't know enough about the subject of this hugely important vote and wanted to be "educated" by both sides - fat chance!
I agree with that completely. I had no idea what I was really voting for or against and so I needed the people that were advocating change to convince me that change was necessary. Instead, they indulged in their own project fear.
Attachment 2577
That's all well and good, but in the 2 years, 1 month and 1 week since that referendum took place we have the very people who were telling us a deal with the EU was easy, that they needed us more than we needed them - the people who told us that are now trying to sell a No Deal Brexit as no bad thing. The two key positions of Government are held by a passive remainer, and an agressive remainer. We have had a General Election that, instead of clearing Parliament, hamstrung it completely. After her Lancaster House Speech, I was actually relieved to see May had a roadmap to a future post EU membership. What the feck has happened since then? Because, it is obvious to me, there are no plans. There never were any plans, and Government and Opposition are filled with self-servers seeking career opportunities, and not many working for the public interest.
The referendum saw the people narrowly advising the Government that leaving was best for the country. The Government has failed to meet those demands so far, are now on holiday for a month, followed by a week or two in Parliament, followed by another few weeks off for Conferences. It is painful to watch because, at the end of all this, none of us are getting what we voted for (48% have already lost, how many of the 52% are still winners at this moment)?
The thing is, a no deal brexit will kill manufacturing, it will kill road haulage companies, and it will kill agriculture. Probably the three sectors of the Country's industry that voted most strongly to leave! If anything, what is happening now is far more undemocratic than holding a second referendum for the people to advise on the next best path to take - no deal, or no brexit. There's no middle ground anymore.
The people who "won" that referendum (I think Boris didn't really want to win it) are nowhere to be seen. The people who called for the referendum are nowhere to be seen. The people who called the referendum are nowhere to be seen (by people, I mean MPs). They're all hiding away and resigning a few days after leaving a cabinet meeting where everyone was said to agree. What the feck were Davis and Johnson doing in Chequers? Where was their British Bulldog spirit? It took Davis a weekend to resign, and Boris a little bit longer.
That was awkward to watch. I still haven't seen anything close to a convincing reason in favour of this mess.
Rees-Mogg was batted into a corner by Krishnan Guru-Murthy (I think it was him) and said that the economic benefits for Brexit may not be apparent for 50 years.
50 years! We haven't even given the EU that long. Almost everyone who voted in 2016 will be dead or retired. No one makes economic predictions for 50 years in the future. It's infuriating, and I only hope the impending immediate disaster continues to seep into the public conscious, as I feel has been happening over the past couple of weeks.
We can still withdraw Article 50. A few months ago I felt that wasn't wise as the undercurrent of why so many people voted to leave will still be there, and people like Farage would stoke it up. But now I'm starting to think that at least that cohort won't be around for decades. It increasingly feels like the country has been held to ransom by Aron Banks and his crew.
What will the EU do with all of their excess products that they sell to us, do you think the companies that make them will stand by and be told they will have to forget about this business? These companies are heavily invested in their workforces, plant and equipment, and they have financial obligations that need to be met. I can't see it happening myself, just like the EU capitulated to Trump, as there is no benefit for the EU in pursuing negative trade deals.
I think it’s fair to say it was a good deal for both the USA and the EU so not sure why you’re trying to yet again spin it as some one sided victory. It reads like a Daily Express headline and I think we can finally put that nonsense neutral position you espouse to bed.
Whether or not the UK will be as successful when we know our economy isn’t as big as America’s is yet to be seen. I hope a deal ncan be done to make the best of this utterly farcical situation created by that poisonous prick (copyright David Mitchell) Cameron got us into .