It's all smoke and mirrors, Blairites are Tory-light globalists. They are David Cameron with a red rosette.
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Well you would have hated to take up the mantle but Theresa May certainly barged her way to the front of the queue when the opportunity arose.
She then almost single handedly initiated and executed the worst election campaign in living memory when you look at the poll lead she frittered away and the weakness that introduced by having to rely upon a minority party.
She then painted a load of unnecessary red lines that appeased the hard Brexiteers but handcuffed negotiators and looked even weaker when these red lines were softened. Its difficult to remember that pre and post referendum a range of options what Brexit could be were being articulated by the same Tory ministers and backbenchers who now are filleting May for negotiating one they don't like.
To give her credit she seems to be driven by a sense of duty. She has survived this far mainly due to the cowardice of other Tories who would rather criticise and undermine but didn't have the guts to put themselves forward as alternatives when they knew they would have to pick up responsibility for a crock of shit.
Labour at one level has been little better as aside from a clearer commitment to being in a Customs Union it won't/can't articulate a clear vision that keeps its party/members/voters aligned. However where I disagree with your attempt to spread blame is that it is the duty of HM Opposition to oppose. The six tests, impossible as they are to achieve, are all promisory notes made to voters mainly by Tory Brexiteers or government.
The best way to get Labour to come clean on its vision for Brexit/not Brexit is via the ballot box where they will be forced to set this out in a way that there is no compelling need in opposition.
There is some reasonable debate taking place in this thread interspersed with the odd, and I mean odd, picture of european leaders with cupped hands over their mouths and you tube video presumably meant to signify some secret plot for the UK to remain in the EU. Alternatively a bit of predictable name calling that could annoy those on record of disparaging those who shoot the messenger rather than being able to articulate why they are disagreement with the message.
It's almost like triviality and the inability to articulate a rational argument was a prerequisite for Mensa membership these days!
Riveting stuff. First time watching a parliamentary session for two hours straight.
I feel a little sorry for May. She's trapped and there's **** all she can do about it . Not going down without a fight.
I agreed with her saying too many MPs are talking about what they wish would happen (second vote) rather than what is happening (brexit).
Not sure that your definition of the role of our sovereign Parliament is factually correct but there is a reasonable argument that the government and elected representatives should implement the outcome of the advisory referendum.
Out of interest what do you see as the will of the people? Is it the agreement that the government has negotiated with the EU or do you want something different?
There's around 120 MPs out of a total of 650 and a dozen or so peers from 700+ who are pro-Brexit, so circa 10% of lawmakers, the political class, want to implement the will of the majority who voted in the referendum.
But the will of the people is a scatted will, and in most cases was a single point they wanted , some wanted just farming changed , ,some wanted just fisheries dealt ,with some wanted less European labour,some wanted law independence , some wanted to save billions what no one saw coming was the Irish border issue , this is a 40 year association,how anyone thought you just leave without pain is beyond me .
The best comment today was a Labour politician saying the government should move aside and " let us negotiate the deal ",do they really think their would be a different stance from the European commission ,because it was a different face ,their position is there position,unless Labour would concede more ,which is highly unlikely as they too are split within its own party, and its voters on this issue ?
Apologies everybody. My fault I mentioned Trump's name so I should have guessed a sidetracking of the thread was not too far away
Where's is the alternative plan ,or voice that makes sense taking in the complexity of this exit , strangely May has a deal closer to the center of the Labour who want to say in ,rather than the right loops like Mogg , Boris ,Redwood ,she could pull the SNP closer as well .
Its a fascinating political moment In time, yes May's leadership is under the spotlight , however so are other leaders as the country is split ,and those very split people, vote in or out the politicians, so be careful ,for what you wish for is the message for them . .