Re: This is how Cardiff City should be run
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pearcey3
What a nonsense post. Reading are just as established in the Championship as Cardiff and have spent three seasons in the top flight. So what? There are no guarantees. For every Leicester there is a Stoke, or a Portsmouth, Sunderland or
Middlesbrough. All teams who have spent a lot longer at a higher level than Cardiff but are doing considerably worse than Cardiff right now. That’s how it is.
But the point people are making is if there is a good progressive system in place you shouldn't end up like a pompey or a sunderland, because they were being ran like joke shops.
Re: This is how Cardiff City should be run
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
But the point people are making is if there is a good progressive system in place you shouldn't end up like a pompey or a sunderland, because they were being ran like joke shops.
It’s like people are reading posts and then their brains are muddling the words before they are processed, and they just answer completely differently to what the OP was about.
Re: This is how Cardiff City should be run
Quote:
Originally Posted by
thehumblegringo
I keep reading on this this thread about other clubs that have failed etc but if you look at the failings of those clubs it's because they didn't have any sort of plan or vision that they sunk.
You've only got to watch the Netflix documentary to see the amateurism behind Sunderland's demise and there have been similar grave errors at Portsmouth, Bolton and even Stoke.
Swansea were the model club when it came to a small club with a vision who were able to punch far above their weight and achieve good things, but as soon as they departed from that model they demise begun.
Where do we go when the parachute payments expire?
We have to find a more connected way of running our club or we'll end up where we were with Slade and it was only through Neil Warnock's genius at this level in getting every last drop out of his players that gave us a lifeline.
I fear that lifeline is now being wasted and we are tumbling back to where we were. I'm not asking to spend buckets of money, on the contrary I'm asking that our transfer policy becomes far more strategic and we don't employ a scatter gun approach like we're currently doing and signing players like Will Vaulks then discarding them after 2 games!
The only way we can become sustainable is to number one become more savvy in the transfer market by identifying now players that could become available and fit our club ethos even 2 or 3 years down the line and number two creating a pathway where even one or two youngsters have an opportunity to break in the first team.
Surely everyone can see that our club is not in line with how other successful clubs are run in 2019?
Surely everyone can see that our "transfer committee" is not fit for purpose?
Surely everyone can see that the way to successfully run a championship/premier league club is not the same in 2019 as it was in 1992?
If (and surely these things are a given) these things are true, I don't understand the opposition to those of us who'd like to see our club modernise in order to enhance our chances of future success!
But, but, but, but look at Portsmouth and Sunderland.
And dont forget we were really crap 20+ years ago.
Re: This is how Cardiff City should be run
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pearcey3
What a nonsense post. Reading are just as established in the Championship as Cardiff and have spent three seasons in the top flight. So what? There are no guarantees. For every Leicester there is a Stoke, or a Portsmouth, Sunderland or
Middlesbrough. All teams who have spent a lot longer at a higher level than Cardiff but are doing considerably worse than Cardiff right now. That’s how it is.
Who mentioned anything about guarantees? By your logic people shouldnt want us to try and better ourselves as a football club because some clubs have had a worse time of it, and because we used to be shit 20+ years ago.
And ill tell you whats nonsense. You banging on about where Cardiff were as a club in the 90's and how you remember them times blah,blah,blah.
Totally and utterly irrelevant in the year 2019. A total nonsense.
Re: This is how Cardiff City should be run
"Obviously, it's about staying in the Premier League first amd foremost".
It would seem obvious. But many on here and maybe at the club seemed to be of the opinion that it was OK to go down and "bounce back stronger". The so called "Burnley method".
Re: This is how Cardiff City should be run
Remember the talk during the summer of 2018 about us bringing in players who would be strong Championship performers if we got relegated, do we still believe the signings of Smithies, Cunningham, Decordova-Reid and Murphy were part of some master plan? Well, with two of them out on loan, one of them playing like he either doesn't want to be here or is going through a crisis of confidence and the other one only playing because our first choice in the position got injured, it's hard to see how it could have been - somehow, it all feels typically Cardiff City.
Re: This is how Cardiff City should be run
It’s clear that Warnock was a good appointment at the the time. He stabilised the club and unexpectedly got us promoted to the Premier League, where, frankly, our lack of a plan got found out and now we’re back to a level more befitting of the club’s set up.
The thing is, that most clubs around us are or have already moved on and so, as many have already said, Warnock has probably taken us as far as he can.
If we’re going to stay relevant and grow the club, we need progression, otherwise why don’t the club just employ local boys and play with an old leather ball?
I find it stunning that with all of the money at stake, the club does appear to be like driftwood...
Re: This is how Cardiff City should be run
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Hooded Claw
It’s clear that Warnock was a good appointment at the the time. He stabilised the club and unexpectedly got us promoted to the Premier League, where, frankly, our lack of a plan got found out and now we’re back to a level more befitting of the club’s set up.
The thing is, that most clubs around us are or have already moved on and so, as many have already said, Warnock has probably taken us as far as he can.
If we’re going to stay relevant and grow the club, we need progression, otherwise why don’t the club just employ local boys and play with an old leather ball?
I find it stunning that with all of the money at stake, the club does appear to be like driftwood...
Imagine we had a man to do all that planning.
Wouldn’t that be lovely.
Re: This is how Cardiff City should be run
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Remember the talk during the summer of 2018 about us bringing in players who would be strong Championship performers if we got relegated, do we still believe the signings of Smithies, Cunningham, Decordova-Reid and Murphy were part of some master plan? Well, with two of them out on loan, one of them playing like he either doesn't want to be here or is going through a crisis of confidence and the other one only playing because our first choice in the position got injured, it's hard to see how it could have been - somehow, it all feels typically Cardiff City.
The question nobody seems to answer -even ask for that matter - is if we were a better run club would we be more successful ? Huddersfield hung on to the Premier league by their fingertips - not dissimilar to us apart from the end result, but the next season when they strengthened they were relegated pretty much by Christmas. They played some really good football an attempted to move away from their 'backs-to-the-wall' approach. I remember them looking impressive on TV a few times and they played us off the park here. Now look at them. They may move up the table as the season progresses, but maybe if they'd stuck to a playing style that their players were more adept at, they's still be in the PL..
Re: This is how Cardiff City should be run
Quote:
Originally Posted by
A Quiet Monkfish
The question nobody seems to answer -even ask for that matter - is if we were a better run club would we be more successful ? Huddersfield hung on to the Premier league by their fingertips - not dissimilar to us apart from the end result, but the next season when they strengthened they were relegated pretty much by Christmas. They played some really good football an attempted to move away from their 'backs-to-the-wall' approach. I remember them looking impressive on TV a few times and they played us off the park here. Now look at them. They may move up the table as the season progresses, but maybe if they'd stuck to a playing style that their players were more adept at, they's still be in the PL..
I think this is a fair question. I think if a club like Cardiff or Huddersfield go up with limited funds, having a vision or plan doesn't guarantee that a club will stay up but just increase it's chances.
I think the loss of Stuart Webber towards the end of their promotion season was a hammer blow for Huddersfield. No doubt some of the players they signed in the first season in the premier league would have already been identified when he left.
The appointment of Olaf Rebbe as sporting director just simply didn't work. He was sacked by Wolfsburg before he came in and signed all prospects from Bundesliga 2 when they probably weren't good enough.
They recently brought in David Webb as head of operations who has been working at Ostersunds and had previously been head of recruitment at Bournemouth so it will be interesting to see how they do in the next window.
I watched an interview on YouTube with Stuart Webber and Steve Weaver which highlighted the scale of the job they undertook when they took up their roles at Huddersfield.
https://youtu.be/6K9UBRvGR0k
One thing I will add, is that though Huddersfield don't look brilliant on the pitch at them moment, off the pitch they are stable.
We were hemorrhaging money before we got promoted and I think it will be the same again soon if something drastic isn't done.
Re: This is how Cardiff City should be run
Quote:
Originally Posted by
A Quiet Monkfish
The question nobody seems to answer -even ask for that matter - is if we were a better run club would we be more successful ? Huddersfield hung on to the Premier league by their fingertips - not dissimilar to us apart from the end result, but the next season when they strengthened they were relegated pretty much by Christmas. They played some really good football an attempted to move away from their 'backs-to-the-wall' approach. I remember them looking impressive on TV a few times and they played us off the park here. Now look at them. They may move up the table as the season progresses, but maybe if they'd stuck to a playing style that their players were more adept at, they's still be in the PL..
Actually, I thought our way of playing in 17/18 was going to be quite a bit more effective in the Premier League than it turned out to be because it's rare to come across a team like us at that level these days. In particular, I was hopeful that we would be very effective from attacking dead ball situations and didn't expect us to be as suspect as we were when defending them either.
I think logic says most clubs will improve, maybe not be successful, if a lot of work is put into its structure and methodology. Look at what we are at present - a club with an Academy which fails on all levels because it doesn't produce first team players for us and doesn't raise any revenue through the sale of said players (truthfully, our Academy is just a loss making exercise while those in charge deem it that we either don't have youngsters good enough to break into the first team or feel that we cannot introduce Academy products into the senior team because it is too much of a risk). Also, If a club is not producing its own first team footballers, then it needs to have a a very effective player recruit programme to compensate for that - is anyone on here going to argue that we have that at present?
An increasing number of clubs have both a working Academy and a professional and effective player recruitment set up. Besides that, I heard Glen Williams of Wales Online saying he watched the Under 23s on Monday and couldn't get over how differently they played to the senior team - actually, I think the Under 23s have taken some steps towards playing like the first team in the last year (e.g. knocking balls into the channels and the use of long throws in attack and defence), Glen should see how the Under 18s play!
There's three ways in which the club would surely improve - having an Academy which does what it is supposed to do, a less haphazard approach to the transfer market and a system of play that is common to all levels of the club, that should lead to improvement of the first team shouldn't it?
Re: This is how Cardiff City should be run
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Actually, I thought our way of playing in 17/18 was going to be quite a bit more effective in the Premier League than it turned out to be because it's rare to come across a team like us at that level these days. In particular, I was hopeful that we would be very effective from attacking dead ball situations and didn't expect us to be as suspect as we were when defending them either.
I think logic says most clubs will improve, maybe not be successful, if a lot of work is put into its structure and methodology. Look at what we are at present - a club with an Academy which fails on all levels because it doesn't produce first team players for us and doesn't raise any revenue through the sale of said players (truthfully, our Academy is just a loss making exercise while those in charge deem it that we either don't have youngsters good enough to break into the first team or feel that we cannot introduce Academy products into the senior team because it is too much of a risk). Also, If a club is not producing its own first team footballers, then it needs to have a a very effective player recruit programme to compensate for that - is anyone on here going to argue that we have that at present?
An increasing number of clubs have both a working Academy and a professional and effective player recruitment set up. Besides that, I heard Glen Williams of Wales Online saying he watched the Under 23s on Monday and couldn't get over how differently they played to the senior team - actually, I think the Under 23s have taken some steps towards playing like the first team in the last year (e.g. knocking balls into the channels and the use of long throws in attack and defence), Glen should see how the Under 18s play!
There's three ways in which the club would surely improve - having an Academy which does what it is supposed to do, a less haphazard approach to the transfer market and a system of play that is common to all levels of the club, that should lead to improvement of the first team shouldn't it?
Yes, especially a more knowledgeable approach to transfers. I think it's increasingly difficult to get players to come here at present, and I doubt we'll reach top 6 this season because our recruitment has been so poor and not even Warnock can get this squad into the play offs..
Re: This is how Cardiff City should be run
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Actually, I thought our way of playing in 17/18 was going to be quite a bit more effective in the Premier League than it turned out to be because it's rare to come across a team like us at that level these days. In particular, I was hopeful that we would be very effective from attacking dead ball situations and didn't expect us to be as suspect as we were when defending them either.
I think logic says most clubs will improve, maybe not be successful, if a lot of work is put into its structure and methodology. Look at what we are at present - a club with an Academy which fails on all levels because it doesn't produce first team players for us and doesn't raise any revenue through the sale of said players (truthfully, our Academy is just a loss making exercise while those in charge deem it that we either don't have youngsters good enough to break into the first team or feel that we cannot introduce Academy products into the senior team because it is too much of a risk). Also, If a club is not producing its own first team footballers, then it needs to have a a very effective player recruit programme to compensate for that - is anyone on here going to argue that we have that at present?
An increasing number of clubs have both a working Academy and a professional and effective player recruitment set up. Besides that, I heard Glen Williams of Wales Online saying he watched the Under 23s on Monday and couldn't get over how differently they played to the senior team - actually, I think the Under 23s have taken some steps towards playing like the first team in the last year (e.g. knocking balls into the channels and the use of long throws in attack and defence), Glen should see how the Under 18s play!
There's three ways in which the club would surely improve - having an Academy which does what it is supposed to do, a less haphazard approach to the transfer market and a system of play that is common to all levels of the club, that should lead to improvement of the first team shouldn't it?
Well Reading have a successful Academy and a defined way of playing throughout the club and still managed to waste millions in the transfer market and are in the relegation zone.
Just one question. If Cardiff win promotion this season (currently six points off top spot) what would your view be on how the club is functioning?
Re: This is how Cardiff City should be run
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pearcey3
Well Reading have a successful Academy and a defined way of playing throughout the club and still managed to waste millions in the transfer market and are in the relegation zone.
Just one question. If Cardiff win promotion this season (currently six points off top spot) what would your view be on how the club is functioning?
Well, if that happened, then I would assume that some of the transfers which look dodgy currently had turned out to be far from that, so that would be one of the three things I listed that would not apply, but the other two still would and they did in 17/18 - you may not believe me, but I felt exactly the same about the Academy and the differences between the way the senior team played compared to all of our age group teams on the day we got promoted.
Re: This is how Cardiff City should be run
Yes I know you have been critical for a long time about the number of players that have come through the Academy. I think it’s incredibly difficult for Championship clubs to get it right. The rewards of winning promotion appear huge but in reality the costs of surviving in the top flight can be overwhelming.
Outside the big five or six clubs very few seem able to sustain top flight football over a long term period. I’m not convinced any club has a particularly effective model. Maybe Leicester. Beyond that it seems to be a case of trying to survive for as long as possible before relegation hits.