Reply With QuoteIt won't make any difference, the problem is not in or out of Europe.
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Interested what the early thoughts are. Cameron's deal doesn't seem to have convinced the maybes to stay in.
As far as I can see alot of people are likely to vote out.
It won't make any difference, the problem is not in or out of Europe.
Where's the 'Shake it all about' option?
In for me, mostly because I trust the EU to put people's interests before those of big business far more than I do Westminster.
Maybe not for you, but for many it can be.Originally Posted by Observer wrote on Mon, 22 February 2016 10:39
I honestly don't feel qualified to contribute to making such an important decision.
Sadly, I suspect that a significant percentage of the population will do whatever The Sun/Daily Mail will tell them to do.
Either way, I am very confident that intelligent thinking and economic analysis will have no impact whatsoever on the eventual outcome.
They were saying similar on the news this morning. Stats are made up by each side, so the economic argument is nothing but fallacy. It will end up being the personalities that win in. The Boris' and others that will come out on each side.
in. EU grants are vital for wales.
Same team, different colours.It won't make any difference, the problem is not in or out of Europe.
Bookies offering 7/4 on the vote to leave. and 2/5 on the stay.
It feels a bit closer than that at the moment.
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/eu-refe rendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result
I appreciate that if we left the EU, there is no guarantee that current recipients would still get the benefits they do, but bear in mind a future UK government could honour all EU expenditure, and still have £23m a day change for whatever else it wanted (NHS,Schools, Tax cuts, defence etc)
Also, while I agree with the principle that debts should be honoured, I think you only need to look at Greece to see that your point is dubious.
Greece has been screwed into the ground.In for me, mostly because I trust the EU to put people's interests before those of big business far more than I do Westminster.
Probably out for me, but I will be shoring up my knowledge on the topic.
For me, the balance is this:
On one side, I support international bodies, and support being part of organisations that share ideas, risks, and collaborate for the greater good. In that sense, generally speaking, being part of the UN, EU, NATO, etc is a good thing.
This though is balanced with the fact that while being in a pan-Europe organisation is theoretically good, in practice, the EU is an abysmal organisation, grossly expensive and undemocratic, and severely impacts upon sovereignty. I also think it's oft-alledged 'raison d'etre' that it has kept the peace in Europe is increasingly untrue - I think a centralised body over such diverse peoples and nations is increasingly adding to conflict, rather than preventing it.
My mind is very open to changing my opinion, and if a third options of 'Inside a significantly reformed EU' were presented, then I'd vote for that.
However, as things stand, I'm peering into the leave camp from my position sat on the fence.
It would all get spent in London.in. EU grants are vital for wales.
does anyone think we would have had two world wars if we adopted the EU in 1900? i don't and that is reason enough to keep us at the top table of european politics.
If Britain leaves the EU then Scotland would leave Britain shortly afterwards,, leaving Wales locked into an England that will only ever have a Tory government.
I can only see the London centric nature of Westminster government being increased following a brexit
The 1st World War was a squabble between Queen Victoria's grandchildren, so I'm not sure what the EU would have done about that. Ditto the Nazi sympathizers prior to WW2, there were leading people in this country who wanted us to join in on their side.
Personally I'd be all up for deeper integration into Europe, and the formation of a European super state.
The EU, while not being perfect, is as democratic or as undemocratic as our system, except, it seems, with better environmental protections and workers rights (from what I can gather so far; I'm still trying to work it out myself).
2 - EU granst can work, you just need capable people in control of them. The people of wales dont want this, else we wouldnt still be voting for labour.in. EU grants are vital for wales.
by far the most sensible post in this thread
I said that political differences would be discussed around the table. can you really see the EU going to war today over something like the assassination of a politician? I don't see that at all.does anyone think we would have had two world wars if we adopted the EU in 1900? i don't and that is reason enough to keep us at the top table of european politics.
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