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Good job.
That's a really good summary by Keith.
It amazes me that some on here insist a deal was agreed between Tan and the fans whilst at the same time entirely relieving Tan of the commitments he made as summarised in this article.
My view is that whether debt or equity, tan controls the company and therefore it's cashflows. This won't change with a debt to equity conversion.
When tan leaves, any debt outstanding will be part of the sales agreement.
That's a fair summary.Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Thu, 01 January 2015 12:45
Why is it? For a start it makes no allowance for the FFF regulations and there would be no interest payments to Tan for the club to find - if it makes no odds either way why doesn't Tan stick to his promise?My view is that whether debt or equity, tan controls the company and therefore it's cashflows. This won't change with a debt to equity conversion.
Interest payments are likely to be book entries that increase the value of the debt but also reduce any future sales price by the same amount (as they increase accumulated losses / reduce orofits)My view is that whether debt or equity, tan controls the company and therefore it's cashflows. This won't change with a debt to equity conversion.When tan leaves, any debt outstanding will be part of the sales agreement.
The number of creditors have reduced to one.
The HMRC obligation is being met.
VT can liquidate Cardiff City, but he would not get anything.
If we were in the top 10 in the Premier League, it's unlikely we would be discussing this matter.
How about the bit that ragbone mentioned that I was responding to?
For simple purposes, having no debt is very important for the club, as it means that it doesn't have huge levels of debt.
Members voluntary liquidationThe number of creditors have reduced to one.
Basically Mr Tan has spunked £150m(?) of his own money really, really badly gambling on some shit managers and in turn some shit players, while doing this he has also shunned some pretty lucrative income streams such as Premier League stadium advertising and what would've potentially been an absolute fortune in the selling of Premier League merchandise, and now he wants us to pay it all back.
Isn't that like me having a great time at the casino and then when i'm all out of cash asking the croupier for it all back as gambling didn't quite work out for me.
Very good analogy - don't forget that we've never had a stadium naming rights deal either.
As a Cardiff City fans for over 30 years , I am well aware on the clubs financial position.
We as a club have always lived beyond our means since Grogan left.
Whilst I am concerned, I don't lose sleep over it and spend most of my time on an unofficial message board.
I neither am that concerned, but just concerned enough to write in this thread.
I would be genuinely more concerned with our debt if we still owed the likes of Hammam, Ranson, Guy and the like as opposed to one Creditor, for reasons outlined above.
If I was concerned, which I'm not, I would be more concerned that there is an astronomically huge amount of debt owed to one creditor at a high rate of interest rather than small debts to other creditors. Luckily I'm not concerned though.
Ah the old 7% interest rate. Like most loans. The time to worry is when a helicopter takes the club captain to West Brom for £700k.
Do you honestly think this current predicament is 'better' than the one that you allude to..?
It was Wigan that Kav headed off to in a helicopter.
The interest charged on the loan was used to dilute everyone else's shareholding when it was converted to equityAh the old 7% interest rate. Like most loans. The time to worry is when a helicopter takes the club captain to West Brom for £700k.
Tan hasn't converted any debt to equity at all, he has bought his shares from shareholders.Ah the old 7% interest rate. Like most loans. The time to worry is when a helicopter takes the club captain to West Brom for £700k.Why need there be any interest rate - surely a modicum of altruism from such a lover of charity woiuldnt be out of the question ..?
I'm pretty sure there was an agreement to convert the interest on the loan to equityAh the old 7% interest rate. Like most loans. The time to worry is when a helicopter takes the club captain to West Brom for £700k.Why need there be any interest rate - surely a modicum of altruism from such a lover of charity woiuldnt be out of the question ..?It was Wigan that Kav headed off to in a helicopter.
Beats me how Tan (and some of his apologists) think that City fans should show more respect and be grateful, that's akin to a desperate man thanking Wonga.com for putting him deeper in the shit.
Perhaps these accountant types (interesting that the accountant who has tended to be proved right most often on our finances thinks differently) can explain how our current potential situation differs to ten years ago when about 80% of our debt was owed to one individual/company and we ended up with Black Friday. As I keep on saying, while our situation remains as it is, Tan is nothing more than a better connected and richer Hammam - the only difference is that the club's level of debt is far more dangerous than it was before if Tan wanted to get vindictive.Ah the old 7% interest rate. Like most loans. The time to worry is when a helicopter takes the club captain to West Brom for £700k.
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