How much was promotion under Mackay down to money?

[purple haze2]

Malky Mackay built a team unit here, and he was allowed to do that because, there was a large departure of players here when he arrived, and he had money to bring players in.

You cannot deny that building that unit took a fair amount of skill. He was also lucky to have that money available in his second season. If i was to call it i would probably call it a 60/40 split in favour of skill, maybe 70/30.

Where he is struggling now, is turning around an existing ground of players that are currently taking a club backwards. Its a different set of circumstances to his time at Cardiff City. He also now has the pressure and expectation of a promotion winning manager, which he didn't have hanging over him during his time at Cardiff.

They were 9 points ahead of bottom placed Blackpool and now only 3 points ahead !!

[Jimmy the Jock]

The point is that under Mackay we were promoted and were never in the Premiership relegation zone.

We were hurtling down the table under MM and given another game or two he would have got us there.

History will show we were not in the relegation zone.

You can rewrite it as many times as you like.

You are right Jimmy, history will show that under MM we were not in the relegation zone.

I would agree with the heavy defeats comment. What would MM have done with more funds ,who knows?

[lardy]

Malky Mackay built a team unit here, and he was allowed to do that because, there was a large departure of players here when he arrived, and he had money to bring players in.

You cannot deny that building that unit took a fair amount of skill. He was also lucky to have that money available in his second season. If i was to call it i would probably call it a 60/40 split in favour of skill, maybe 70/30.

Where he is struggling now, is turning around an existing ground of players that are currently taking a club backwards. Its a different set of circumstances to his time at Cardiff City. He also now has the pressure and expectation of a promotion winning manager, which he didn't have hanging over him during his time at Cardiff.

This is pretty much the same team that attained 5th position in this division and lost an FA Cup semi final to Arsenal on penalties last season

So Malky couldn't have been a good manager for us because he hasn't had a great start at Wigan. There's a hole in this logic somewhere.

[qccfc]

Malky Mackay built a team unit here, and he was allowed to do that because, there was a large departure of players here when he arrived, and he had money to bring players in.

You cannot deny that building that unit took a fair amount of skill. He was also lucky to have that money available in his second season. If i was to call it i would probably call it a 60/40 split in favour of skill, maybe 70/30.

Where he is struggling now, is turning around an existing ground of players that are currently taking a club backwards. Its a different set of circumstances to his time at Cardiff City. He also now has the pressure and expectation of a promotion winning manager, which he didn't have hanging over him during his time at Cardiff.

This is pretty much the same team that attained 5th position in this division and lost an FA Cup semi final to Arsenal on penalties last season

I think its folly to write off MM as a poor manager, whilst at the same time to ignore the fact that clearly he was clearly backed with a health budget.

[purple haze2]

The point is that under Mackay we were promoted and were never in the Premiership relegation zone.

We were hurtling down the table under MM and given another game or two he would have got us there.

History will show we were not in the relegation zone.

You can rewrite it as many times as you like.

100% agree Jimmy

[ziggym]

All luck, the lowest pts total for many a year. Just a very poor season and Malky's terrible turgid style was enough to get us up.
Good luck Wigan !!!!

[Jimmy the Jock]

I do watch the Wigan situation with interest.
Because of the furore when he got the job I would imagine he will be nervous if results are going against them.
In his first season at Cardiff I used to cry watching his style of football. I hated it with a passion .Turns out it was a winners style.
Most of his signings were fine and Cornelius was sent home because Tan had began to wage war with Malky IMO and wanted to paint a bad picture.
The way Malky played the supporters at the end showed his true character as did his support of the red, both were disingenuous.
I still think he did a decent job all in all.

[purple haze2]

Malky Mackay built a team unit here, and he was allowed to do that because, there was a large departure of players here when he arrived, and he had money to bring players in.

You cannot deny that building that unit took a fair amount of skill. He was also lucky to have that money available in his second season. If i was to call it i would probably call it a 60/40 split in favour of skill, maybe 70/30.

Where he is struggling now, is turning around an existing ground of players that are currently taking a club backwards. Its a different set of circumstances to his time at Cardiff City. He also now has the pressure and expectation of a promotion winning manager, which he didn't have hanging over him during his time at Cardiff.

This is pretty much the same team that attained 5th position in this division and lost an FA Cup semi final to Arsenal on penalties last season

But it was clearly going backwards this season, Hence why they sacked Rosler.

Malky being a defender in his playing days, along with 2012-13 performances and losses at Bolton 1-2 despite being 1-0 up at half time and especially the 5-4 loss at Charlton, shaped his ultra defensive style for most of the remainder of that season and in the PL.

[lardy]

I certainly believed Malky to be a good manager, but his inability to be adaptable and flexible in his approach to different opposition proved to be his downfall.

I don't think that's true at all. He wasn't sacked because of results going badly, he was sacked because his relationship with Tan had gone bellyup.

[the other bob wilson]

The point is that under Mackay we were promoted and were never in the Premiership relegation zone.

We were hurtling down the table under MM and given another game or two he would have got us there.

History will show we were not in the relegation zone.

You can rewrite it as many times as you like.

As for how much of our promotion was down to him, I'd say something like 60%. Yes, he was helped a great deal by Vincent Tan's money, but money cannot buy the spirit that side had and credit has to be given to the man who created it. If I had a complaint about Mackay that season it would be that all of that money should have bought a side that could have been promoted with a bit more style - that's a fairly minor gripe as far as I'm concerned though.

[goats]

The point is that under Mackay we were promoted and were never in the Premiership relegation zone.

We were hurtling down the table under MM and given another game or two he would have got us there.

History will show we were not in the relegation zone.

Getting the right type of players in is far more important, players like helgerson, warrior types.

[Mario Miethig]

Malky deserves a lot of credit for taking us up. It's one thing having money, but it all depends on what you do with it, also Malky had his dossier, where he looked at the players character to see if they would fit in on a personal level with the rest of the squad. Ole had the money that Malky had and fecked it right up big time and left certain positions overloaded and others weak.
Malkys style of football was turgid to say the least, but it got the required results. Must admit, like Jimmy I was looking forward to seeing free flowing attacking football under Ole, unfortunately he proved to be a disastrous appointment.
Despite what's happening at Wigan, I still believe Malky is a good manager, but with the FA enquiry and Tans frequent public statements an ongoing thing, Malky was always on a hiding to nothing at Wigan. Whelan should never have appointed him in the circumstances. I really hope Malky gets the all clear from the FA and can show us again what a good manager he is. Don't think it'll be at Wigan though.

[beef]

Since taking over at Wigan his record is played 9, won 1, lost 7, drawn 1.

Really? It was that good a side that anyone could have got them up? Guess they did ok in the Prem then.

[Mario Miethig]

The point is that under Mackay we were promoted and were never in the Premiership relegation zone.

We were hurtling down the table under MM and given another game or two he would have got us there.

History will show we were not in the relegation zone.

You can rewrite it as many times as you like.

Agree with all that. A prime example of a Manager having money was Sven at Leicester. He blew Millions on that squad and didn't even make the play offs. Money is definitely no guarantee of success.

[purple haze2]

I certainly believed Malky to be a good manager, but his inability to be adaptable and flexible in his approach to different opposition proved to be his downfall.

Malky being a defender in his playing days, along with 2012-13 performances and losses at Bolton 1-2 despite being 1-0 up at half time and especially the 5-4 loss at Charlton, shaped his ultra defensive style for most of the remainder of that season and in the PL.

I meant his downfall as a manager.

[lardy]

I certainly believed Malky to be a good manager, but his inability to be adaptable and flexible in his approach to different opposition proved to be his downfall.

Malky being a defender in his playing days, along with 2012-13 performances and losses at Bolton 1-2 despite being 1-0 up at half time and especially the 5-4 loss at Charlton, shaped his ultra defensive style for most of the remainder of that season and in the PL.

I don't think that's true at all. He wasn't sacked because of results going badly, he was sacked because his relationship with Tan had gone bellyup.

I don't understand what you mean. Results were pretty much expected for a bottom end of the table team in the PL, win a few but lost more.

[purple haze2]

I certainly believed Malky to be a good manager, but his inability to be adaptable and flexible in his approach to different opposition proved to be his downfall.

Malky being a defender in his playing days, along with 2012-13 performances and losses at Bolton 1-2 despite being 1-0 up at half time and especially the 5-4 loss at Charlton, shaped his ultra defensive style for most of the remainder of that season and in the PL.

I don't think that's true at all. He wasn't sacked because of results going badly, he was sacked because his relationship with Tan had gone bellyup.

Agreed.

The best performances were generally against the much better opposition and even then opposition fans, especially at home to Spurs and Everton were complaining of Malky's anti football style.

[lardy]

I certainly believed Malky to be a good manager, but his inability to be adaptable and flexible in his approach to different opposition proved to be his downfall.

Malky being a defender in his playing days, along with 2012-13 performances and losses at Bolton 1-2 despite being 1-0 up at half time and especially the 5-4 loss at Charlton, shaped his ultra defensive style for most of the remainder of that season and in the PL.

I don't think that's true at all. He wasn't sacked because of results going badly, he was sacked because his relationship with Tan had gone bellyup.

Agreed.

I meant his downfall as a manager.

Lots of the criticism his teams got were deserved but at the end of the day it wasn't performances that lead to his downfall. It was the broken relationship and Cornelius. As Cornelius barely played, he couldn't have contributed to inflexible tactics.

[purple haze2]

I certainly believed Malky to be a good manager, but his inability to be adaptable and flexible in his approach to different opposition proved to be his downfall.

Malky being a defender in his playing days, along with 2012-13 performances and losses at Bolton 1-2 despite being 1-0 up at half time and especially the 5-4 loss at Charlton, shaped his ultra defensive style for most of the remainder of that season and in the PL.

I don't think that's true at all. He wasn't sacked because of results going badly, he was sacked because his relationship with Tan had gone bellyup.

Agreed.

I meant his downfall as a manager.

I don't understand what you mean. Results were pretty much expected for a bottom end of the table team in the PL, win a few but lost more.

Would we have stayed up under Malky, personally I don't believe we would have. The closer to the end of the season, the more cautious Malky would have got, like we did in our promotion season.

[bluebirds over.......]

Slightly confused by your point but one thing for sure is that Wigan fans have seen enough and want him out.

If it's too early for us to judge Slade, it is too early for Wigan to judge Malky too.

Innocent until proven guilty.

[Optimistic Nick]

Slightly confused by your point but one thing for sure is that Wigan fans have seen enough and want him out.

If it's too early for us to judge Slade, it is too early for Wigan to judge Malky too.

However if it really is that terrible, I suppose Wigan have a get-out-of-jail-free card in the event that this FA inquiry (which is shamefully late) finds that he's done something naughty (which he has).

He has admitted and apologised for being an ignorant daft racist. It is established fact, which makes the fa investigation even more bizarre.

[chepstow]

The point is that under Mackay we were promoted and were never in the Premiership relegation zone.

We were hurtling down the table under MM and given another game or two he would have got us there.

More utter guesswork and bollox. I prefer to deal in facts..... we were never in the relegation zone under MM

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Malky was largely able to build a side from scratch after he was left so few players by Dave Jones. He had a philosophy and a way of getting promotion and brought in the players to fit that philosophy. That's why we got promotion I reckon. We hardly had the most talented squad but we were hard working, eventually defensively sound and had enough at the other end to pinch goals when they were needed.

At Wigan, Malky is working with players he doesn't necessarily want. Wigan have, certainly since Martinez time there, been a fluent passing side with a good midfield. That's not quite Malky's style or philosophy, and it surprised me a little that he went there in the first place. It was a bit like appointing a 4-4-2 man to replace someone who had brought in a load of creative midfielders in the hope of getting them to link up as part of a fluent, adaptable attacking unit.

Take Swansea. They have a philosophy and bring players in who they believe will be a part of that. That's why some players do well at certain clubs but then flop when they move elsewhere (or vice versa). If Wigan decided they wanted a change of direction then it would have been utterly foolish of them to try this after a couple of months of the season.

Not even Pulis was a huge success initially at Palace. It was only once he brought players in during the transfer window that he thought were going to do the jobs he wanted that Palace sprinted clear of relegation and finished so strongly.

No point expecting a new manager to work to an existing philosophy as he'll have his own. You bring a manager in to fit the club's philosophy. We don't have one and it shows. Wigan don't appear to have one, either at the moment.

[Eric Cartman]

I'd say 30% down to the good work he did in building a side in the previous season, 20% down to it being a very poor league that season, and 50% down to money. For example, being able to bring Campbell in made gave us a bit of a boost. The fact that we won the league when our top scorer only scored 8 still amazes me.

I would say it is more likely the Malky just can't command the respect he once did...People know all about him now.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

The point is that under Mackay we were promoted and were never in the Premiership relegation zone.

We were hurtling down the table under MM and given another game or two he would have got us there.

More utter guesswork and bollox. I prefer to deal in facts..... we were never in the relegation zone under MM

I'm therefore interested to find out how many points you reckon Malky's side would have got from trips to Arsenal, Man City and Man Utd. 3 points in January would have kept us out of the bottom 3. There were signs that West Ham would have beaten Malky's side in Cardiff, as happened to Solskjaer's team, so where would that win have come from?