Reply With QuoteOriginally Posted by headlight wrote on Tue, 01 September 2015 08:17
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Feedy, you say that you speak from personal experience well here is my personal experience.
My sister has worked for the DWP for 30 years & is in charge of a job centre.
I have a close family member with severe mental health issues.
My sister says that nowadays her job is totally target driven.
She is both shocked & sickened by the state some of her customers are in that have been assessed by ATOS/DWP as fit for work & says she knows that there is no chance of them ever working.
They have just been taken off one benefit & put onto another benefit, a benefit that is cheaper for the govt.
They are now in a situation where they are under much more stress & can be subject to harsh sanctions. Neither of which are good for their already poor physical/mental health & as such worsens their quality of life which is the opposite of what the govt "claims" they are trying to do.
I do not believe that ATOS or any private company should be involved in carrying out "assessments" nor do I believe that DWP staff should have the final say as to whether someone is fit or not to work.
Quite frankly the fact that a DWP member of staff, using an ATOS "tick" sheet assessment can over rule the decision of a time served, highly trained & skilled medical professional shows the callousness of this govt & the depths they will go to to prove that they are right & save a few quid.
If they pursued tax dodgers with the same vigour as the sick & vulnerable there would be a lot more money in the coffers.
headlight
A very good point about the tax dodgersIt all seems a bit ideological to me.
This is total bollocks. The fact that someone is on DLA means, ipso facto, that he/she is NOT as healthy as anyone else.Disabled people are more than capable of working. It's insulting to suggest that they can't and shouldn't work. With the right support and framework in place people with disability are just as capable and productive. You seem to think a disability is a barrier to working whereas it's not.DLA is not about health as you have suggested. It's about living with a disability. Plenty of people on DLA are as healthy as anyone else.
you will find that I have not disagreed with anything that you have written, especially the bit in bold. What I have disagreed with is the conclusions drawn from the data released. it is nothing more than that however some feel the need to vent their spleen in my direction as they think I'm advocating a system when I'm not.
What happened to the old "there are no targets at the DWP" line that Mr Smith was trotting out not so long ago?
In parliamentary language, I suspect he may have told an untruth.My sister says that nowadays her job is totally target driven
The point being made is that disabilities affect people differently even when they are the same medical condition. There is no magic cure and no right or wrong, even when the condition is (clinically) the same. Just because you personally are unable to work does not mean all disabled people are unable to work.You implied "all" here, even if you've qualified your statement now.
headlightMy sister says that nowadays her job is totally target driven
How do they silence all the staff, surely there must be some people with a conscience working there?My sister says that nowadays her job is totally target drivenWhat happened to the old "there are no targets at the DWP" line that Mr Smith was trotting out not so long ago?It is a pack of lies, it has been target driven for years
headlight
Target setting isn't as bad as you are making out as it is a feedback and control method that allows action to be taken if behaviour or outcomes are not what you would expect.How do they silence all the staff, surely there must be some people with a conscience working there?
How do they silence all the staff, surely there must be some people with a conscience working there?
It seems you are almost willing whatever it is inside your head to be trueHow do they silence all the staff, surely there must be some people with a conscience working there?No idea, perhaps they are scared of speaking out for fear of losing their jobs or being put in an untenable position ?
you're happy to take the word of someone off the internet you don't know without question just because it suits your agenda but question everything else, even official government statistics, when it doesn't. I see.How do they silence all the staff, surely there must be some people with a conscience working there?No idea, perhaps they are scared of speaking out for fear of losing their jobs or being put in an untenable position ?Or maybe it is because the ordinary workers are continually told that they are not target driven whereas senior staff are fully aware of it ?
TBF it seems to be only you and IDS who are on the same page!How do they silence all the staff, surely there must be some people with a conscience working there?No idea, perhaps they are scared of speaking out for fear of losing their jobs or being put in an untenable position ?Or maybe it is because the ordinary workers are continually told that they are not target driven whereas senior staff are fully aware of it ?Who knows, just stating what I have been told for several years now.
other than everyone else in this thread who have questioned your use of stats in this context you're probably rightHow do they silence all the staff, surely there must be some people with a conscience working there?No idea, perhaps they are scared of speaking out for fear of losing their jobs or being put in an untenable position ?Or maybe it is because the ordinary workers are continually told that they are not target driven whereas senior staff are fully aware of it ?Who knows, just stating what I have been told for several years now.headlight
Yeah well, them too, but you get my pointHow do they silence all the staff, surely there must be some people with a conscience working there?No idea, perhaps they are scared of speaking out for fear of losing their jobs or being put in an untenable position ?Or maybe it is because the ordinary workers are continually told that they are not target driven whereas senior staff are fully aware of it ?Who knows, just stating what I have been told for several years now.headlightthrowing the cat amongst the pigeons here, whilst I am not doubting the veracity of what you say (and what your sister says), there could be a world of difference between being set targets and being set targets as described here in relation to ATOS.
The current policy is not fit for purpose not because you and your preferred stats say it is but because its a typical civil service one size fits all box ticking exercise that doesn't take in to account the human angle and the fact that each situation is different.How do they silence all the staff, surely there must be some people with a conscience working there?No idea, perhaps they are scared of speaking out for fear of losing their jobs or being put in an untenable position ?Or maybe it is because the ordinary workers are continually told that they are not target driven whereas senior staff are fully aware of it ?Who knows, just stating what I have been told for several years now.headlightthrowing the cat amongst the pigeons here, whilst I am not doubting the veracity of what you say (and what your sister says), there could be a world of difference between being set targets and being set targets as described here in relation to ATOS.Target setting isn't as bad as you are making out as it is a feedback and control method that allows action to be taken if behaviour or outcomes are not what you would expect.It seems you are almost willing whatever it is inside your head to be true
I don't hate the Tories and I don't love Labour. But being a true Welshman I have been shaped by my environment, and I will always wish the best for my fellow countrymenHow do they silence all the staff, surely there must be some people with a conscience working there?No idea, perhaps they are scared of speaking out for fear of losing their jobs or being put in an untenable position ?Or maybe it is because the ordinary workers are continually told that they are not target driven whereas senior staff are fully aware of it ?Who knows, just stating what I have been told for several years now.headlightthrowing the cat amongst the pigeons here, whilst I am not doubting the veracity of what you say (and what your sister says), there could be a world of difference between being set targets and being set targets as described here in relation to ATOS.Target setting isn't as bad as you are making out as it is a feedback and control method that allows action to be taken if behaviour or outcomes are not what you would expect.It seems you are almost willing whatever it is inside your head to be true
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