Corbyn's Democratic Free Open Politics

[Kiffa]

My view and experience of these ideological types albeit right or left they don't have normal values and life's as the ordinary person on the street, and there beliefs have no consequence to them .

Define the 'ordinary person on the street'.

I regularly meet people who share the values of 'idological people' - both left and right.

The general public in the UK in the main sit in a liberally centered world , and prefer not to court extreme view left or right , yes they have moans an groans and digs ,and some read the Daily Mail or Sun , however In my experience they don't become indoctrinated in left or right views , they just strive for a nice gently comfortable non topical ideological world, watching television , going down the pub , listening to some music and enjoying family life .

I suppose you would also have to define extreme. I would argue Corbyn is moderately left wing, it is simply a case that he looks extreme to some becsuse it is so long since we had anyone express left wing views in the mainstream.

Quite.

People are just buying into the media rhetoric.

Ah,the nasty old media again.

Yes they do print some rubbish, but to be frank I think Corbyn is making quite a good job of damaging his own cause without their help.

Archie may consider Corbyn to be moderately left wing (hmmm) but even if we accept this he seems to be surrounding himself with people who are not moderate.

I asked for your reasoning behind the choices. You havent provided any.

[Elwood Blues]

My view and experience of these ideological types albeit right or left they don't have normal values and life's as the ordinary person on the street, and there beliefs have no consequence to them .

Define the 'ordinary person on the street'.

I regularly meet people who share the values of 'idological people' - both left and right.

The general public in the UK in the main sit in a liberally centered world , and prefer not to court extreme view left or right , yes they have moans an groans and digs ,and some read the Daily Mail or Sun , however In my experience they don't become indoctrinated in left or right views , they just strive for a nice gently comfortable non topical ideological world, watching television , going down the pub , listening to some music and enjoying family life .

I suppose you would also have to define extreme. I would argue Corbyn is moderately left wing, it is simply a case that he looks extreme to some becsuse it is so long since we had anyone express left wing views in the mainstream.

Quite.

People are just buying into the media rhetoric.

Ah,the nasty old media again.

Yes they do print some rubbish, but to be frank I think Corbyn is making quite a good job of damaging his own cause without their help.

Archie may consider Corbyn to be moderately left wing (hmmm) but even if we accept this he seems to be surrounding himself with people who are not moderate.

Who exactly is extreme left and what are your reasons behind thinking this?

On come on! You surely aren't telling me that you don't know that they are Hard Left????

[Feedback]

Extreme left = Cameron and anyone to the left of him. The centre ground is where moderates such as myself and ayn rand sit

[Kiffa]

My view and experience of these ideological types albeit right or left they don't have normal values and life's as the ordinary person on the street, and there beliefs have no consequence to them .

Define the 'ordinary person on the street'.

I regularly meet people who share the values of 'idological people' - both left and right.

The general public in the UK in the main sit in a liberally centered world , and prefer not to court extreme view left or right , yes they have moans an groans and digs ,and some read the Daily Mail or Sun , however In my experience they don't become indoctrinated in left or right views , they just strive for a nice gently comfortable non topical ideological world, watching television , going down the pub , listening to some music and enjoying family life .

I suppose you would also have to define extreme. I would argue Corbyn is moderately left wing, it is simply a case that he looks extreme to some becsuse it is so long since we had anyone express left wing views in the mainstream.

Quite.

People are just buying into the media rhetoric.

Ah,the nasty old media again.

Yes they do print some rubbish, but to be frank I think Corbyn is making quite a good job of damaging his own cause without their help.

Archie may consider Corbyn to be moderately left wing (hmmm) but even if we accept this he seems to be surrounding himself with people who are not moderate.

Who exactly is extreme left and what are your reasons behind thinking this?

McDonnell,Fisher,Milne,Livingstone,Momentum. Think those five words answer both your questions.

Surely you're not telling me you can't put some simple reasoning behind your choices???

[Elwood Blues]

My view and experience of these ideological types albeit right or left they don't have normal values and life's as the ordinary person on the street, and there beliefs have no consequence to them .

Define the 'ordinary person on the street'.

I regularly meet people who share the values of 'idological people' - both left and right.

The general public in the UK in the main sit in a liberally centered world , and prefer not to court extreme view left or right , yes they have moans an groans and digs ,and some read the Daily Mail or Sun , however In my experience they don't become indoctrinated in left or right views , they just strive for a nice gently comfortable non topical ideological world, watching television , going down the pub , listening to some music and enjoying family life .

I suppose you would also have to define extreme. I would argue Corbyn is moderately left wing, it is simply a case that he looks extreme to some becsuse it is so long since we had anyone express left wing views in the mainstream.

Quite.

People are just buying into the media rhetoric.

Ah,the nasty old media again.

Yes they do print some rubbish, but to be frank I think Corbyn is making quite a good job of damaging his own cause without their help.

Archie may consider Corbyn to be moderately left wing (hmmm) but even if we accept this he seems to be surrounding himself with people who are not moderate.

Who exactly is extreme left and what are your reasons behind thinking this?

McDonnell,Fisher,Milne,Livingstone,Momentum. Think those five words answer both your questions.

They answer who you think is extreme left but offer zero reasoning behind the choices.

If you really don't know (!) look them up!!

[surge]

My view and experience of these ideological types albeit right or left they don't have normal values and life's as the ordinary person on the street, and there beliefs have no consequence to them .

Define the 'ordinary person on the street'.

I regularly meet people who share the values of 'idological people' - both left and right.

The general public in the UK in the main sit in a liberally centered world , and prefer not to court extreme view left or right , yes they have moans an groans and digs ,and some read the Daily Mail or Sun , however In my experience they don't become indoctrinated in left or right views , they just strive for a nice gently comfortable non topical ideological world, watching television , going down the pub , listening to some music and enjoying family life .

British politics has been mainly conservative led throughout our lifetimes so naturally people judge the centre ground with that as their starting point, but that doesn't mean views left to the starting point are radically left-wing. In most of his views, Corbyn is left wing but not radically so. Now that may be too left to win but latest polls suggest he hasn't lost ground on David Cameron just yet despite everything that has been thrown at him thus far. Perhaps people are just preferring the geography teacher talking about lives of the majority of people rather than the Eton graduates talking about strivers vs skivers then cutting working tax credits

[Jimmy Jimmy]

Can you imagine the shock on here if Osbourne had stood up and quoted a mass murderer as part of his response to a speech ?

Or if the Tory equivalent of Dianne Abbott had said that actually Hitler to more good than harm.

The msgboard would be in melt down so it's rather odd that it;s so so quiet on here.

Who will come next after Corbyn resigns on principal ?

My guess will be Tom Watson or possibly Alan Johnson - he hasnt been on this week for a while

[archibald leitch]

Can you imagine the shock on here if Osbourne had stood up and quoted a mass murderer as part of his response to a speech ?

Why would Corbyn resign? He has more support within the party than any leader in history.

[archibald leitch]

Interesting article in the tory supporting Spectator - even they think Corbyn is taking a more sensible approach to Syria than Cameroon.

[Feedback]

Can you imagine the shock on here if Osbourne had stood up and quoted a mass murderer as part of his response to a speech ?

Or if the Tory equivalent of Dianne Abbott had said that actually Hitler to more good than harm.

But he doesn't have much support from the people. What's more important to you - a leader who represents the party or a leader who represents the people?

[Elwood Blues]

Can you imagine the shock on here if Osbourne had stood up and quoted a mass murderer as part of his response to a speech ?

Or if the Tory equivalent of Dianne Abbott had said that actually Hitler to more good than harm.

I suspect the same will happen to Corbyn if election results go badly.

[archibald leitch]

Can you imagine the shock on here if Osbourne had stood up and quoted a mass murderer as part of his response to a speech ?

Or if the Tory equivalent of Dianne Abbott had said that actually Hitler to more good than harm.

The msgboard would be in melt down so it's rather odd that it;s so so quiet on here.

Why do you think he does not have the support of the electorate?

[Packerman]

Can you imagine the shock on here if Osbourne had stood up and quoted a mass murderer as part of his response to a speech ?

Or if the Tory equivalent of Dianne Abbott had said that actually Hitler to more good than harm.

The msgboard would be in melt down so it's rather odd that it;s so so quiet on here.

Who will come next after Corbyn resigns on principal ?

by election coming up, suppose you might get an idea then

[archibald leitch]

Can you imagine the shock on here if Osbourne had stood up and quoted a mass murderer as part of his response to a speech ?

Or if the Tory equivalent of Dianne Abbott had said that actually Hitler to more good than harm.

The msgboard would be in melt down so it's rather odd that it;s so so quiet on here.

Who will come next after Corbyn resigns on principal ?

My guess will be Tom Watson or possibly Alan Johnson - he hasnt been on this week for a while

Sorry. Just read that five times. Makes no sense to me. Want to try again in English?

[Feedback]

Can you imagine the shock on here if Osbourne had stood up and quoted a mass murderer as part of his response to a speech ?

Or if the Tory equivalent of Dianne Abbott had said that actually Hitler to more good than harm.

The msgboard would be in melt down so it's rather odd that it;s so so quiet on here.

Who will come next after Corbyn resigns on principal ?

My guess will be Tom Watson or possibly Alan Johnson - he hasnt been on this week for a while

Has anyone said Mao did more good than harm?

The point is 10m people or so voted labour and only 550k are members. That means the membership is only about 1 in 19 or so of that which voted for the labour parliamentary party. I'd say MPs should listen to what their constituents say rather than do what the party tells them. This isn't east Germany - it should always be people before party and that's not something we are seeing with Corbyn or his style of leadership.

[Packerman]

Can you imagine the shock on here if Osbourne had stood up and quoted a mass murderer as part of his response to a speech ?

Or if the Tory equivalent of Dianne Abbott had said that actually Hitler to more good than harm.

The msgboard would be in melt down so it's rather odd that it;s so so quiet on here.

Who will come next after Corbyn resigns on principal ?

My guess will be Tom Watson or possibly Alan Johnson - he hasnt been on this week for a while

Has anyone said Mao did more good than harm?

feedy seemed to get it easily enough, seemed straightforward to me too, we might gauge his support amongst the electorate at the upcoming by election,Lab majority of 14000 should increase surely

[archibald leitch]

Can you imagine the shock on here if Osbourne had stood up and quoted a mass murderer as part of his response to a speech ?

Or if the Tory equivalent of Dianne Abbott had said that actually Hitler to more good than harm.

The msgboard would be in melt down so it's rather odd that it;s so so quiet on here.

Who will come next after Corbyn resigns on principal ?

My guess will be Tom Watson or possibly Alan Johnson - he hasnt been on this week for a while

Has anyone said Mao did more good than harm?

Why would Corbyn resign? He has more support within the party than any leader in history.

Dont forget at the last election 40% of the population did not vote at all because they felt no-body represented them - including Labour. That has changed. Granted, Corbyn will have lost some of the people who voted Labour before, but he will have won over some of the stay away vote.

[archibald leitch]

Can you imagine the shock on here if Osbourne had stood up and quoted a mass murderer as part of his response to a speech ?

Or if the Tory equivalent of Dianne Abbott had said that actually Hitler to more good than harm.

The msgboard would be in melt down so it's rather odd that it;s so so quiet on here.

Who will come next after Corbyn resigns on principal ?

My guess will be Tom Watson or possibly Alan Johnson - he hasnt been on this week for a while

Has anyone said Mao did more good than harm?

Why would Corbyn resign? He has more support within the party than any leader in history.

My point was, at present there is no indication at all that Corbyn does not have the support of the electorate. A by-election in the future might give an indicator, or might not, but at the moment it is impossible to say that he does not have the support of the people with any confidence.

[Packerman]

Can you imagine the shock on here if Osbourne had stood up and quoted a mass murderer as part of his response to a speech ?

Or if the Tory equivalent of Dianne Abbott had said that actually Hitler to more good than harm.

The msgboard would be in melt down so it's rather odd that it;s so so quiet on here.

Who will come next after Corbyn resigns on principal ?

My guess will be Tom Watson or possibly Alan Johnson - he hasnt been on this week for a while

Has anyone said Mao did more good than harm?

Why would Corbyn resign? He has more support within the party than any leader in history.

But he doesn't have much support from the people. What's more important to you - a leader who represents the party or a leader who represents the people?

agree, lets wait and see, interesting times

[Feedback]

Archie

It's good that you agree the local electorate elect the MP and that the MP is there to represent their interests in parliament. That means an MP has a duty to go with the wishes of the people and not the party. Otherwise what is the point of elections?

I look forward to Corbyn confirming he will give a free vote on every issue so that Labour party members can best represent the people who elected them rather than having to toe the party line.

[Feedback]

Can you imagine the shock on here if Osbourne had stood up and quoted a mass murderer as part of his response to a speech ?

Or if the Tory equivalent of Dianne Abbott had said that actually Hitler to more good than harm.

The msgboard would be in melt down so it's rather odd that it;s so so quiet on here.

Who will come next after Corbyn resigns on principal ?

My guess will be Tom Watson or possibly Alan Johnson - he hasnt been on this week for a while

Has anyone said Mao did more good than harm?

Why would Corbyn resign? He has more support within the party than any leader in history.

Being able to understand the point being made for any given context isn't archie's strong point. Only the other day he thought I was specifically talking about the peace time average of debt/gdp from 1945 onwards when in fact the point being made was that current debt/gdp is higher than the historical peace time average over no specific time period, whatever that figure happens to be.

[archibald leitch]

Can you imagine the shock on here if Osbourne had stood up and quoted a mass murderer as part of his response to a speech ?

Or if the Tory equivalent of Dianne Abbott had said that actually Hitler to more good than harm.

The msgboard would be in melt down so it's rather odd that it;s so so quiet on here.

Who will come next after Corbyn resigns on principal ?

My guess will be Tom Watson or possibly Alan Johnson - he hasnt been on this week for a while

Has anyone said Mao did more good than harm?

Why would Corbyn resign? He has more support within the party than any leader in history.

But he doesn't have much support from the people. What's more important to you - a leader who represents the party or a leader who represents the people?

You sir, are the king of ad hominem and thread diversion - i can only assume this is because you hate to admit being wrong.

[archibald leitch]

Archie

As you are such an experet in what my politics are - constantly telling me you know my politics better than i do - you will know that I have no time for the whole party politics system

[Feedback]

Can you imagine the shock on here if Osbourne had stood up and quoted a mass murderer as part of his response to a speech ?

Or if the Tory equivalent of Dianne Abbott had said that actually Hitler to more good than harm.

The msgboard would be in melt down so it's rather odd that it;s so so quiet on here.

Who will come next after Corbyn resigns on principal ?

My guess will be Tom Watson or possibly Alan Johnson - he hasnt been on this week for a while

Has anyone said Mao did more good than harm?

Why would Corbyn resign? He has more support within the party than any leader in history.

But he doesn't have much support from the people. What's more important to you - a leader who represents the party or a leader who represents the people?

Why do you think he does not have the support of the electorate?

I wasn't wrote archie. I showed that from 1970 to date the average was 40%. You showed that from 1945 to date it was 50%. Both were correct but that wasn't the point I was making (for the third time). The point being made - and this reinforces my claim that you're not very good at ascertaining the general gist of the point being made - is that the current debt/gdp ratio is much higher than the historic peace time average. As per usual you focused on the totally wrong aspect to create an argument - a straw man if you will

[Feedback]

Archie

It's good that you agree the local electorate elect the MP and that the MP is there to represent their interests in parliament. That means an MP has a duty to go with the wishes of the people and not the party. Otherwise what is the point of elections?

Do you agree that Corbyn is wrong to tell MPs how to vote? Do you think MPs should be free to vote as they see appropriate on each and every issue presented before parliament?