The best and brightest in society

[Feedback]

According to this report today the nations top graduates are of the impression that to make a difference in this world they need to work in investment banking, accounting or law with graduates giving the public sector a wide swerve.

It's clear that our best talent consider working for the state in delivering public services is a waste of their own potential. Such a snub is a damning indictment of the uk public sector and it's lack of ability in delivering results, getting things done and making a real difference towards people's lives.

Anyone who has ever had to deal with the uk state and it's vassals will appreciate the byzantine approach to getting anything done with all focus placed on ticking those boxes rather than looking at the reality presented before them. What is needed is bright young talent to come in - a new broom sweeps clean - to re-energise a slow and laborious culture than Eminates from the top down.

The question I am asking is how do we attract the best to the uk public sector so that it can start delivering quality services that we all deserve rather than placing focus on ensuring every little piece of paper work is completed even if it's to the detriment of the end result.

[TH63]

Except that nowhere in the the article you refer to does it use the phrase "make a difference in the world"

I suspect the key driver is the train driver level of wages offered by investment banks which the Public Sector cannot hope to match for new graduates.

[Feedback]

Except that nowhere in the the article you refer to does it use the phrase "make a difference in the world"

Whichever way you look at it, it's pretty clear that the best and brightest aren't found in the public sector

[TH63]

I think you're trying to provoke a reaction here to be honest, but you can hardly blame today's students, who exit university with crippling student loans to pay off, chasing the most money that they can get. It just happens that the financial services sector pay the most. If the Public sector paid anything like an international bank, we'd be fighting graduates off with a stick.

I believe people choose the fire/police/medical/HE sectors because they do and can make a real difference, but clearly not many of us go to work for the fun of it, so of course salary comes into it.

It would be interesting to understand the definition of "the best and the brightest"- Daddy plays golf with someone at the bank? Eton/Oxbridge educated?

Almost certainly this "handful of top caqndidates will be employed in the city, which implies that the rest of the chaff will end up either in either the private or public sector in other parts of the country, irrespective of their financial/vocational motivations.

[Kiffa]

Except that nowhere in the the article you refer to does it use the phrase "make a difference in the world"

I suspect the key driver is the train driver level of wages offered by investment banks which the Public Sector cannot hope to match for new graduates.

Care to back that up feedback? Or are we just spouting dogmatic bollocks again?

[blue sky]

Feedback has equated the word "best" - which in the UK, in terms of academic performance, is largely determined by who your parents are and where you are born - with the word "altruistic".

A complete load of bollocks.

He loves to generalise, to the extent of lumping millions of people, eg the "public sector", into one supposed mindset and extrapolating some kind of groupthink or consistent behaviour from the tiniest pieces of circumstantial evidence.

As far as I can tell, he has some expertise in physics and in history, and of course the snooze fest that is accountancy. But when it comes to social sciences - psychology, sociology, economics and politics - he is as clueless as the average Joe, but with the enormous handicap of believing that his analysis is correct.

He's a very strange, conceited, stubborn, narcissistic man.

[Feedback]

Except that nowhere in the the article you refer to does it use the phrase "make a difference in the world"

I suspect the key driver is the train driver level of wages offered by investment banks which the Public Sector cannot hope to match for new graduates.

We are continuously told by those that beat the public sector drum that public sector workers choose the public sector because they want to serve the public and make a difference and that salary levels don't come in to it. So if salary levels don't come in to it how come the vast majority of our very best are giving the public sector a swerve?

We are repeatedly told that such workers could earn more in the private sector but shun those opportunities because they prefer working for society rather than earning a decent crust.

[Feedback]

I think you're trying to provoke a reaction here to be honest, but you can hardly blame today's students, who exit university with crippling student loans to pay off, chasing the most money that they can get. It just happens that the financial services sector pay the most. If the Public sector paid anything like an international bank, we'd be fighting graduates off with a stick.

Yet here we are seeing one demographic - graduates - shun the public sector almost completely and the only reason cam be is that people aren't as altruistic as some like to make out. Given a choice between earning a train drivers wage or a junior doctors wage, most graduates would prefer to earn the same as those who contribute most to society e.g. train drivers. Munificence doesn't come in to it.

[Feedback]

Feedback has equated the word "best" - which in the UK, in terms of academic performance, is largely determined by who your parents are and where you are born - with the word "altruistic".

No thread is complete without Mr Ad Hominem playing the man and not the ball

[Kiffa]

Feedback - you ARE mr ad hominem!

Now - if you could just quote archie saying public sector workers choose the public sector because they want to serve the public and make a difference and that salary levels don't come in to it, then we can begin to consider your comments to not be as dogmatic as they are.

In fact, seeing as we are CONTINUOUSLY told the above, maybe 2 or 3 quotes. Shouldn't be that hard for you to prove, considering the continuous nature of what you claim.

[blue sky]

Feedback has equated the word "best" - which in the UK, in terms of academic performance, is largely determined by who your parents are and where you are born - with the word "altruistic".

A complete load of bollocks.

And I would do that every day for the rest of my life.

[TH63]

I think you're trying to provoke a reaction here to be honest, but you can hardly blame today's students, who exit university with crippling student loans to pay off, chasing the most money that they can get. It just happens that the financial services sector pay the most. If the Public sector paid anything like an international bank, we'd be fighting graduates off with a stick.

I believe people choose the fire/police/medical/HE sectors because they do and can make a real difference, but clearly not many of us go to work for the fun of it, so of course salary comes into it.

Most graduates,IMHO, chase the money, and who can blame them since the government scrapped grants and introduced tuition fees?

[Feedback]

Feedback - you ARE mr ad hominem!

really, i tend to argue against the politics and not the individual

hopefully, this will help convince you.

[Feedback]

That may be true for some, but not all, and certainly not universal. You're trying, poorly IMHO, to score a couple of points over Archie.

I'm not trying to score points over anyone. I was having a bit of whimsy on a cold January morn

In any case some sectors of the public sector, I'm thinking armed and intelligence services here, DO attract the brightest and the best, some might say, the best of the best.

Most graduates,IMHO, chase the money, and who can blame them since the government scrapped grants and introduced tuition fees?I certainly don't blame them. But some people claim those working in the public sector do so for love of public service when the reality is most do it to earn a crust. There is nothing wrong with that of course, but some shouldn't try and make out working for the public sector is some path to sainthood.

[blue sky]

Feedback - you ARE mr ad hominem!

really, i tend to argue against the politics and not the individual

Now - if you could just quote archie saying public sector workers choose the public sector because they want to serve the public and make a difference and that salary levels don't come in to it, then we can begin to consider your comments to not be as dogmatic as they are.

Very odd. Do all accountants hate the state and argue all day? Using your logic you'd have to say that, yes, they do.

[ragbone]

Question I have, looking at the obscene wages in football lack of opportunities in public sector due in house public service advertising/recruitment , why don't we see graduates with alleged brains running our club ,driving our trains and sewing people up

[Kiffa]

Feedback - you ARE mr ad hominem!

really, i tend to argue against the politics and not the individual

Now - if you could just quote archie saying public sector workers choose the public sector because they want to serve the public and make a difference and that salary levels don't come in to it, then we can begin to consider your comments to not be as dogmatic as they are.

hopefully, this will help convince you.

Come on feedy - have another go - it's continuous after all, right?

[Feedback]

Feedback - you ARE mr ad hominem!

really, i tend to argue against the politics and not the individual

Now - if you could just quote archie saying public sector workers choose the public sector because they want to serve the public and make a difference and that salary levels don't come in to it, then we can begin to consider your comments to not be as dogmatic as they are.

hopefully, this will help convince you.

As for accountants hating the state - I'd say most who deal with hmrc don't have a good word to say about them at all

[blue sky]

Feedback - you ARE mr ad hominem!

really, i tend to argue against the politics and not the individual

Now - if you could just quote archie saying public sector workers choose the public sector because they want to serve the public and make a difference and that salary levels don't come in to it, then we can begin to consider your comments to not be as dogmatic as they are.

hopefully, this will help convince you.

All you've done there is quote Archie saying what motivates him! Like I said above, you seem to take what an individual believes, or does, and extrapolate that to make the claim that everyone in the same sector believes, or behaves, that way too.

All you've done is quote Archie saying that he works in the public sector for altruistic reasons. He doesn't claim to speak for all public sector workers BECAUSE he doesn't speak for all public sector workers.

[archibald leitch]

[Kiffa]

Feedback - you ARE mr ad hominem!

really, i tend to argue against the politics and not the individual

Now - if you could just quote archie saying public sector workers choose the public sector because they want to serve the public and make a difference and that salary levels don't come in to it, then we can begin to consider your comments to not be as dogmatic as they are.

hopefully, this will help convince you.

All you've done there is quote Archie saying what motivates him! Like I said above, you seem to take what an individual believes, or does, and extrapolate that to make the claim that everyone in the same sector believes, or behaves, that way too.

Continuous?

[Eric Cartman]

Is this your idea of fun?

[Feedback]

whilst not being the best and brightest, I think it is harsh to suggest that public sector workers are ****ing retarded

[blue sky]

whilst not being the best and brightest, I think it is harsh to suggest that public sector workers are ****ing retarded

You are an ignorant bigot.

[Feedback]

whilst not being the best and brightest, I think it is harsh to suggest that public sector workers are ****ing retarded

You are wrong. Archie meant that this thread is retarded - of course you knew that - but you just had to launch a verbal attack on millions of people.

you must be such a joy to be with during these long winter nights