Let's get the f*** out - (part 2)

[Claude Blue]

There you go again trying to put me in the UKIP category like you did before, quite insulting really, I have my own mind and I'm quite capable of using it, I am not influenced in any way by any of those people you mentioned and I have no interest in what they have to say on this matter.
Going on your logic I can only assume that you share the views of Cameron and the rest of the Tory 'IN' crowd.

Out of interest, if it meant leaving a Labour government in power would you consider voting out?

Oh stop being so precious!

I'm not conflating you with UKIP and co. just pointing out the main organisation and individuals within the Brexit campaign as well as stating that a campaign to leave the EU will continue after June 23rd if they fail in their aims.

Whilst certainly no fan of Cameron and co. I agree with them on this issue. Politically I find their views on other matters slightly less obnoxious than the individuals mentioned earlier.

You say you have your own mind and take no notice of what these individuals have to say. Personally I find their comments interesting as they give an insight into how they see Britain post-Brexit. I find them narrow-minded, isolationist and reactionary which has helped me to make an informed decision with regards to the EU referendum.

They've been totally battered on the economic consequences of Brexit so will now rely on their arguments against immigration to persuade others to their cause. I suspect we both know how that argument will go.

With regards to their being a Labour government in power now then no, I would still be voting remain.

Of course if we had such a government then we wouldn't be wasting millions of pounds on this ridiculous referendum in the first place!

[Croesy Blue]

A short time?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You do realise that the Tories have another FOUR years in power?

Can you not begin to imagine what devastation that vile creature backed up by the likes of Gove, IDS, Patel, Rees Mogg, Hannan, Fox, et al could bring to the UK?

Be very careful what you wish for.

It will be a lot more than 4 years, people say they had a small majority but the way the consistencies vote that small majority will remain while we use the current voting system, especially with the Scottish voting snp (or not at all when they leave).

We won't see the back of the Tories for a long time and anyone thinking leaving the EU will improve the NHS or treatment of the disabled must have had their eyes closed since the last election.

And they still want to redraw the constituencies which will keep them in power even longer. I wonder if this will be easier to push through inside or outside of the eu?

[tommy31]

It will be a lot more than 4 years, people say they had a small majority but the way the consistencies vote that small majority will remain while we use the current voting system, especially with the Scottish voting snp (or not at all when they leave).

We won't see the back of the Tories for a long time and anyone thinking leaving the EU will improve the NHS or treatment of the disabled must have had their eyes closed since the last election.

And they still want to redraw the constituencies which will keep them in power even longer. I wonder if this will be easier to push through inside or outside of the eu?

There's a very easy way we could be free of tory rule...

[Croesy Blue]

There's a very easy way we could be free of tory rule...

Go on......

Because it won't be happening at the next general election.

[life on mars]

What worries me about the comments I read is the lack of recognition provided by Europe and been adopted by governments including this one that greatly benefits of workers,whcih i guess would not have been adopted in a non European environment

Such as:
(a) improvement of working environment to protect workers' health and safety ,including working conditions
(b) Minimum wage , regulation standards of hours worked ,driving hours
(c) social security and social protection of workers;
(d) protection of workers where their employment contract is terminated;
(e) the information and consultation of workers;
(f) defense of the interests of workers and employers
(g) the integration of persons excluded from the labour market
(i) equality between men and women with regard to labour market opportunities and treatment at work;
(j) the combating of social exclusion ,maternity /paternity leave
(k) the modernisation of social protection systems without prejudice to point

Lastly here in Wales we have huge benefactors financially,( in its millions ) money we would not have seen if it was left to Whitehall funding ,so be careful what you choose and who you listen to , don't hear many of the Boris/Farage types telling me that Wales will be okay , we will make sure we match European funding for you areas of need and ensure workers rights are upheld, have you ???.

Being in Europe is safety net for Wales , we get benefits and protection that would not be seen otherwise .

[Mrs Steve R]

Oh stop being so precious!

I'm not conflating you with UKIP and co. just pointing out the main organisation and individuals within the Brexit campaign as well as stating that a campaign to leave the EU will continue after June 23rd if they fail in their aims.

Whilst certainly no fan of Cameron and co. I agree with them on this issue. Politically I find their views on other matters slightly less obnoxious than the individuals mentioned earlier.

You say you have your own mind and take no notice of what these individuals have to say. Personally I find their comments interesting as they give an insight into how they see Britain post-Brexit. I find them narrow-minded, isolationist and reactionary which has helped me to make an informed decision with regards to the EU referendum.

They've been totally battered on the economic consequences of Brexit so will now rely on their arguments against immigration to persuade others to their cause. I suspect we both know how that argument will go.

With regards to their being a Labour government in power now then no, I would still be voting remain.

Of course if we had such a government then we wouldn't be wasting millions of pounds on this ridiculous referendum in the first place!

precious? I just have no interest in UKIP and don't want to talk about them.

We all have our own opinions and our reasons for them, I'm just struggling to understand why so many people who hate Cameron with a passion most of the time would even consider trusting the evil tw@t on this issue tbh, since when has he ever cared about our interests?

[Claude Blue]

There's a very easy way we could be free of tory rule...

Sadly, you may well be right.

UK votes to leave the EU. Scotland votes to leave the UK.

Wales is stuck with probable perpetual Tory rule from Westminster.

Wales votes to leave the UK.

[Croesy Blue]

Since when have Boris or Farage? It's a moot point yet again.

[Croesy Blue]

Sadly, you may well be right.

UK votes to leave the EU. Scotland votes to leave the UK.

Wales is stuck with probable perpetual Tory rule from Westminster.

Wales votes to leave the UK.

And finances itself with..........

[tommy31]

Sadly, you may well be right.

UK votes to leave the EU. Scotland votes to leave the UK.

Wales is stuck with probable perpetual Tory rule from Westminster.

Wales votes to leave the UK.

Is the way I see it going too. I'd be thinking very carefully about an out vote.

[Claude Blue]

precious? I just have no interest in UKIP and don't want to talk about them.

We all have our own opinions and our reasons for them, I'm just struggling to understand why so many people who hate Cameron with a passion most of the time would even consider trusting the evil tw@t on this issue tbh, since when has he ever cared about our interests?

The fact that I agree with Cameron on this issue does not mean I trust him.

There are an enormous number of other individuals and organisations who support us remaining in the EU and offer evidence to back up their assertions. Now you probably distrust the IMF, OECD, IFS, HM Treasury, BoE, etc. but are you seriously suggesting that they're all wrong?

[Claude Blue]

And finances itself with..........

Probably with a begging bowl to the EU - if they let us join!!

I only posted what could happen. I have no desire to see an independent Wales.

I want the UK to remain intact and as an active member of the EU.

[Mrs Steve R]

Just to be clear, I hate them ****ers as much as you do but putting up with Boris for a short time is a small inconvenience compared to a life time of being stuck in the EU.

Since when have Boris or Farage? It's a moot point yet again.

When did I say they did? shall I just keep quoting myself until you believe me?



..and another thing, Obama is so keen for us to stay in so Cameron can help him spread his toxic TTIP trade deals across Europe, they pose a serious risk to the NHS according to some.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/...nhs-leading-qc

[Ainsley Harriott]

Dominic Raab, a junior justice minister, said: “On the ECHR the government’s position remains clear. We cannot rule out withdrawal forever, but our forthcoming proposals do not include withdrawal from the convention"

Wait and see what happens, we will be under our own bill of rights within 5 years of leaving. It's obvious to anyone with slight knowledge of the subject that it's more than likely.

So...not you then?

[Croesy Blue]

We'll see

[surge]

The ECHR is not the EU and the EU is not Europe.

The problem is that so many of those commenting on the EU have their own personal agendas (Boris is far more interested in appealing to party members than he is in securing the UK's international future while Theresa May prefers to create an authoritarian state rather than maintaining and building relationships with our neighbours) so we're left with little sensible debate.

Reform (and allowing the choice of direction to be opened up and widely commented on) seems far better at balancing the major positives of EU membership and elements which doesn't serve. I'm still undecided whether that is possible or whether it is a closed shop and we should consider leaving.

I do agree that Wales benefits massively from the UK being part of the EU, and the idea that the whole of Wales, Scotland and NI could vote to stay in but still be required to leave stinks of the "undemocratic" process leavers are criticising the EU for.

[Eric Cartman]

eventually it will be only the wealthy that will be able to afford to travel as there will be carbon taxes on everything.

[Eric Cartman]

Sadly, you may well be right.

UK votes to leave the EU. Scotland votes to leave the UK.

Wales is stuck with probable perpetual Tory rule from Westminster.

Wales votes to leave the UK.

The bold will 100% happen if we vote to leave. The Scots couldn't give two shits that the economic plan behind their out campaign fell apart, they don't want to be stuck out in the Atlantic being ruled by some Toff in London. Leaving the EU makes all the difference.

[Pearcey3]

Mrs SR Do you think we will be financially better off by leaving the EU? What do you think about what our midwives,scientists,environmentalists say about the benefits of staying in the EU?
I have yet to hear a single argument about why we should vote to leave.

[Mrs Steve R]

Mrs SR Do you think we will be financially better off by leaving the EU? What do you think about what our midwives,scientists,environmentalists say about the benefits of staying in the EU?
I have yet to hear a single argument about why we should vote to leave.

I'm thinking that they only know what they are told the same as us, if I'm 100% honest (and this will probably be taken the wrong way as usual) I really do not care if we will be financially better off or not, I care if people will be better off, I couldn't care less if Cameron is up there sharing the stage with the worlds top ten leaders, it means jack shit if behind the scenes people are still having to use food banks and sleeping on the streets of this country, I would rather us be a nobody in the world and a bit worse off if it means the interests of people are considered before large corporations ect

[Croesy Blue]

if behind the scenes people are still having to use food banks and sleeping on the streets of this country, I would rather us be a nobody in the world and a bit worse off if it means the interests of people are considered before large corporations ect

If this concerns you why are you voting leave the eu? That will cut funding for the poorest areas and leave us with a Tory government for 4 years who consider food banks to be part of the welfare state.

[Mrs Steve R]

If this concerns you why are you voting leave the eu? That will cut funding for the poorest areas and leave us with a Tory government for 4 years who consider food banks to be part of the welfare state.

Have you listened to a word I have said all day?

[Croesy Blue]

Have you listened to a word I have said all day?

Yes and not one word of it has made sense. You've made your mind up on conjecture and nothing will change it.

[Croesy Blue]

I would rather us be a nobody in the world and a bit worse off if it means the interests of people are considered before large corporations ect

I'd definitely trust the uk government to do this once we are independent.

[Mrs Steve R]

Yes and not one word of it has made sense. You've made your mind up on conjecture and nothing will change it.

What have you made your mind up on? last week you couldn't even decide yourself and wanted to find out more before you would even consider choosing either way, now suddenly you know it all and are constantly badgering me telling me I'm wrong, you couldn't make it up.

It makes sense to me anyway and it's my choice at the end of the day which is what it's meant to be, maybe you should read up some more before you fully decide, check out the ECHR while your at it.