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Thread: the rise of ukip

  1. #51

    Re: the rise of ukip

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    I think you're proving the generalisation right tbh.
    I didn't vote UKIP, just liked pointing out your crass generalisations were ironic and a bit thick.

  2. #52

    Re: the rise of ukip

    I think you'll find that it was quite on the money.

  3. #53

    Re: the rise of ukip

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    I am speaking personally as I think what ukip will try and do - I have no prior knowledge (like everyone else on here)

    Ukip have 600+ councillors, who debate and vote on all sorts of local council issues. Ukip have said before that on a local level they want their elected representatives to do just that - represent local people and opinion in what they feel is the best interest - rather than tory / labour just sticking to the party line.

    So in a way - I quite like like - at last a political party doing things for local interest. That is fine at a local council level.

    When it comes to the WAG it is higher level of debate (albeit still pointless in my opinion) so as such if they are to be taken seriously - they need experienced politician (or at least 1) to help administer their direction and communication - hence Mark Reckless - being an ex MP - I am guessing he has had a lot of experience - which is why he was selected.

    Lets wait and see - rather than slag them off as being racists etc - to do that just sums up the lack of intelligence both of the electorate and of the people on this board.
    So, in a way, they're a new party that can change things unlike the more established parties? Could anyone give examples of this? And why have UKIP, a right wing party with some very dubious ideas been chosen as the proponents of change? Why not the Lib Dems or the Greens or Plaid?

  4. #54

    Re: the rise of ukip

    Quote Originally Posted by Dénia Bluebird View Post
    So you would be happy to see the end of a local representative (MP), cos that is surely what P.R would represent?
    Local? Plenty of MPs don't come from the areas they serve or have much in common, they get voted in because of the party they represent.

    I take your point, mind. PR would have some negative effect on raising local issues. Having said that we're in the position in the Senedd and Westminster where Wales and the UK are ruled against the wishes of the majority. Imagine if the Senedd and Westminster were occupied by roughly the same number of politicians per party that was voted for. We'd end up with a wide range of views being debated and largely middle of the road policies being carried out. We haven't got that at present. Certainly at Westminster we've got a government the majority didn't want making unpopular policies that end up being overturned due to their unfairness.

  5. #55

    Re: the rise of ukip

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    I think you'll find that it was quite on the money.
    As I asked, do you vote UKIP based on that logic?

  6. #56

    Re: the rise of ukip

    UKIP very cunningly offer all things to all men and offer simplistic answers to complex questions.

    Listen to any UKIP politician and you'll get the stock answer to any question i.e. it's all the fault of the EU and those pesky immigrants.

    Britain will be a green and pleasant land again, flowing with milk and honey. Everyone will have a well paid job, there will be plenty of school places and no waiting to see a GP or have an operation.

    It's all bollocks of course. The reality is that their policy makers come primarily from the hard right and offer only small state austerity, further privatisation of public services, slashing social security, grammar schools (i.e. secondary moderns for the majority), two tier health service based on ones ability to pay, etc.

    If that's what you want then fine, be honest about it and don't blatantly lie to the electorate.

    Personally, I'd be embarrassed to have voted for the likes of Neil Hamilton and Mark Reckless. These are failed Tories and UKIP are just Tory sheep in UKIP wolfs clothing.

  7. #57

    Re: the rise of ukip

    I just cannot get my head around a person who gets 8.2% of the vote in his ward, being elected as a Welsh AM.

    This is just plainly wrong, and makes the whole Welsh Assembly a total joke.

    It needs to be disbanded or revert to what British politics is renowned for ie democracy ie first past the post not this PR misrepresentation.

  8. #58
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    Re: the rise of ukip

    Quote Originally Posted by chris View Post
    not so long ago, they was seen as a minority party, a watered down version of the bnp in many peoples eyes , yet at the last election polled more than 4 million votes and have taken over from the wishy washy liberals as the third main party in this country , even though they they are not represented in parliament by the same number of mp,s a disgrace in many peoples eyes.

    as elections come and go now, they are finishing second and third in many areas of the country , in front of the tories and labour in many areas, because voting labour or tory nowadays is virtually the same thing

    how long will it be before the country decide that enough is enough, and radical changes need to be made which labour or the tories will never provide ?
    UKIP is still and always will be a minority party: approx. 1 in 25 of the Welsh population voted for it in the election. They are thus over-represented in Wales.

    The only radical change needed here is for you to stop spouting bollocks with a mixture of inappropriate smileys.

  9. #59

    Re: the rise of ukip

    Chris's most successful thread NQAT

  10. #60

    Re: the rise of ukip

    Quote Originally Posted by az city View Post
    UKIP is still and always will be a minority party: approx. 1 in 25 of the Welsh population voted for it in the election. They are thus over-represented in Wales.

    The only radical change needed here is for you to stop spouting bollocks with a mixture of inappropriate smileys.
    People had the chance to vote for others, and didnt. Poor turnout is never an excuse. They are representing those who voted for them. Those who chose not to vote have nobody representing them.

  11. #61

    Re: the rise of ukip

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    It's taken you this long for you to realise this ?
    Don't worry, failed politicians like Reckless and Hamilton will shake it up.

  12. #62

    Re: the rise of ukip

    Quote Originally Posted by Cretin Hop View Post
    I just cannot get my head around a person who gets 8.2% of the vote in his ward, being elected as a Welsh AM.

    This is just plainly wrong, and makes the whole Welsh Assembly a total joke.

    It needs to be disbanded or revert to what British politics is renowned for ie democracy ie first past the post not this PR misrepresentation.
    FPTP works well for 2 party politics. Fortunately we've grown up and it's a thing of the past. If we took the 40 FPTP seats and allocated proportionally we'd have had: Labour 14, Cons 8.5 PC 8.5, UKIP 5, LD 3, Greens 1. much more representative parliament rather than a party getting half the seats with 33% of the vote

  13. #63

    Re: the rise of ukip

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    A lot of generalisations are based in fact I'm afraid. Their policies outside of leave the EU aren't well thought out enough and outside of a their policies why would anyone vote for them other than nationalistic tub thumping?

    Do welsh people want a privatised NHS?
    Do Welsh people want less tax on the richest members of society
    Do Welsh people want a party who scrap the "stressful" SAT exams but replace them with grammar school entry exams which aren't apparenlry stressful?
    Apparenly? Is that the name of the UKIP councillor in your area

  14. #64

    Re: the rise of ukip

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    Whilst it saddens me that there is a growing number of thick racists in our country, thankfully there is still enough people who see UKIP for what they are.
    Spot on TH!

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    Re: the rise of ukip

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Shows how much appetite there is for Welsh nationalism. Once again, despite huge apathy for Labour and the Tories, Plaid make very few inroads.
    I thought people like that were scum? or is that just the English?

  16. #66
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    Re: the rise of ukip

    Quote Originally Posted by tommy31 View Post
    People had the chance to vote for others, and didnt. Poor turnout is never an excuse. They are representing those who voted for them. Those who chose not to vote have nobody representing them.
    That's rubbish. If I have no individual/party to vote for that represents my views, who should I vote for? I maintain - UKIP is over-represented. Even Labour only represents 1 in 8 of the population.

    On a side note, I bet you're a Brexshiter.

  17. #67
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    Re: the rise of ukip

    Quote Originally Posted by az city View Post
    That's rubbish. If I have no individual/party to vote for that represents my views, who should I vote for? I maintain - UKIP is over-represented. Even Labour only represents 1 in 8 of the population.

    On a side note, I bet you're a Brexshiter.
    You're voting Donald aint you AZ? he seems to be popular across the pond

  18. #68

    Re: the rise of ukip

    Quote Originally Posted by az city View Post
    That's rubbish. If I have no individual/party to vote for that represents my views, who should I vote for? I maintain - UKIP is over-represented. Even Labour only represents 1 in 8 of the population.

    On a side note, I bet you're a Brexshiter.
    vote for someone who best represents your views, and if there's nobody who's close (which I highly doubt given the range of parties standing in every seat) then spoil your ballot. but go in and use your vote.

    On a side note, you are wrong. I thought my political views were pretty clear on here haha, clearly not.

  19. #69

    Re: the rise of ukip

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    I am speaking personally as I think what ukip will try and do - I have no prior knowledge (like everyone else on here)

    Ukip have 600+ councillors, who debate and vote on all sorts of local council issues. Ukip have said before that on a local level they want their elected representatives to do just that - represent local people and opinion in what they feel is the best interest - rather than tory / labour just sticking to the party line.

    So in a way - I quite like like - at last a political party doing things for local interest. That is fine at a local council level.

    When it comes to the WAG it is higher level of debate (albeit still pointless in my opinion) so as such if they are to be taken seriously - they need experienced politician (or at least 1) to help administer their direction and communication - hence Mark Reckless - being an ex MP - I am guessing he has had a lot of experience - which is why he was selected.

    Lets wait and see - rather than slag them off as being racists etc - to do that just sums up the lack of intelligence both of the electorate and of the people on this board.
    Well said that man!

  20. #70

    Re: the rise of ukip

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    Whilst it saddens me that there is a growing number of thick racists in our country, thankfully there is still enough people who see UKIP for what they are.
    This.

  21. #71

    Re: the rise of ukip

    I understand the desire to want to oust what can be a smug and lazy Labour party, I can understand the want for radical change. I can't understand people across Wales voting for UKIP when their main policies are about leaving Europe (Wales gets more out than pays in, especially in areas like the Valleys) and immigration where Wales has fewer immigrants than large swarms of England. If you want radical change then there is Plaid, Green, Lib Dems all of which offer more for Wales than UKIP and how they will drag the WAG right.

    Even if you disagree with the above, Mark Reckless once got too drunk in the Parliament bar so couldn't take part in a vote. How can you go from being an awful MP to an WAG member? Shame on you if you voted for Mark Reckless and shame on you if you didn't vote and let it happen.

  22. #72

    Re: the rise of ukip

    Watching Wales today interviewing our new AM Neil Hamilton and His wife. Jesus Christ!

    Roving reporter seems to have bumped into the Jeremy Kyle fan club on the streets of Torfaen
    "Yuh, I voted UKIP cos the other lot don't do nothing for us"
    "We need to worry about the people we've got not let more in"

    I despair

  23. #73

    Re: the rise of ukip

    It is very sad to see folk voting for such a right wing party that is Thatcherist and not remotely interested in the working man. Labour may not be great but they have at least brought in policies like the minimum wage and through the Union's greater workers rights. Neil Hamilton and Mark Reckless know **** all about Wales and care even less.

  24. #74
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    Re: the rise of ukip

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    Watching Wales today interviewing our new AM Neil Hamilton and His wife. Jesus Christ!

    Roving reporter seems to have bumped into the Jeremy Kyle fan club on the streets of Torfaen
    "Yuh, I voted UKIP cos the other lot don't do nothing for us"
    "We need to worry about the people we've got not let more in"

    I despair
    As abhorrent as it is to yourself and others,
    what have the other lot done for, in your words, for the Jeremy Kyle fan club ?
    perhaps the Jeremy Kyle fan club have voted for UKIP on other issues other than your perception, I haven't seen the interview.
    I'm glad I live in a society where everyone is entitled to vote. Do you think that individuals should be denied a right to vote because they voted for UKIP ?, I am presuming that your post is based on the racism issue?, apologies if I have misinterpreted, I actually thought that racism was outlawed in the U.K and thus if UKIP were deemed to be a racist party then they would be outlawed, but just like about any law in this country, it's murky and clouded and can be read however you want to read it, surely the best way to deal with UKIP is for the so called main stream parties to get their own acts together, then these fringe based parties will dissapear, I also despair, but my despair is from the, having put up with the two party cartel for 55 years watching the rich get richer whilst the the Jeremy Kyle fan club has been swept into the gutter, the despair has driven me to PC!!!!!!.

  25. #75

    Re: the rise of ukip

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    It is very sad to see folk voting for such a right wing party that is Thatcherist and not remotely interested in the working man. Labour may not be great but they have at least brought in policies like the minimum wage and through the Union's greater workers rights. Neil Hamilton and Mark Reckless know **** all about Wales and care even less.
    I don't know enough about Neil Hamilton but I completely agree regarding Reckless. It's like bringing in Paul Ince as Wales manager because he's experienced despite him being awful and having nothing to offer Wales.

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