Interesting goings-on down the Bay at the moment...

[xsnaggle]

It's disappointing that people being sick of Labour have lead to them cheering this on. Can you imagine what Welsh Tories would have said if in 2010 the Lib Dems helped form a rainbow coalition to keep the Tories out even though Labour lost the election (as opposed to 2015 when the Tories got in despite not winning the election) and now they are playing with Welsh democracy in a similar way.

I can understand many in Wales being sick of Labour, and especially sick of Carwyn Jones, but Wales deserves better than this and better than Reckless and Hamilton. Cheering this on would be like petitioning for a change to green just to piss off Tan who wanted red, it's not what we should want and it makes us look cheap. Can you imagine if Wales follows the America route of Obama's policies being blocked for no other reason than being Obama?

Well done to Leanne Wood who will bring in fresh ideas.

I think you will find the record shows that they did.
If the Lib Dems had kept their promise and voted for the long-overdue boundary changes then the conservative Party would have won by a lot more.
Why do people think it is fair that the conservatives need more than 10% more than the Labour party in order to win a General Election/

[Claude Blue]

You cant say things like that on here, listen - Labour own the WAG, they built it, they have been sat in there for 17 years - so even using basic squatters rights - they should be able to stay there.


We cant have any sort of free vote at the WAG - what are you thinking man . I vote Labour, You vote Labour my Dad voted Labour - you must only vote Labour in Wales - and blame those evil bastards in Westminster for everything else

Once again you seem incapable of understanding that the people of Wales voted Labour in greater numbers than the other parties.

It's clear you don't accept that simple fact.

Not a fan of democracy are you?

[BLUETIT]

Once again you seem incapable of understanding that the people of Wales voted Labour in greater numbers than the other parties.

It's clear you don't accept that simple fact.

Not a fan of democracy are you?

The people of WALES voted against that shithole down the bay, but they FIDDLED it so they won.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[xsnaggle]

Once again you seem incapable of understanding that the people of Wales voted Labour in greater numbers than the other parties.

It's clear you don't accept that simple fact.

Not a fan of democracy are you?

Read my previous post.
If you vote for Proportional Representation, this is what you get. you cannot have your cake and eat it.
If it suited you when labour were winning why doesn't it suit you now?
you sound a bit like the F1 Red Bull team to me!

[Heathblue]

Once again you seem incapable of understanding that the people of Wales voted Labour in greater numbers than the other parties.

It's clear you don't accept that simple fact.

Not a fan of democracy are you?

Labour has governed Wales for in excess of 17 years, it's a poor outcome there can be little doubt but, after 17 years of power the inept Labour machine could not convince the electorate that their time has benefited Wales, it's not real democracy, it's politics unfortunately. and Carwyn Jones should take 100% responsibility.

[Ainsley Harriott]

It's disappointing that people being sick of Labour have lead to them cheering this on. Can you imagine what Welsh Tories would have said if in 2010 the Lib Dems helped form a rainbow coalition to keep the Tories out even though Labour lost the election (as opposed to 2015 when the Tories got in despite not winning the election) and now they are playing with Welsh democracy in a similar way.

I can understand many in Wales being sick of Labour, and especially sick of Carwyn Jones, but Wales deserves better than this and better than Reckless and Hamilton. Cheering this on would be like petitioning for a change to green just to piss off Tan who wanted red, it's not what we should want and it makes us look cheap. Can you imagine if Wales follows the America route of Obama's policies being blocked for no other reason than being Obama?

Well done to Leanne Wood who will bring in fresh ideas.

[xsnaggle]

Plaid AM Rhun ap Iorwerth said: "The people of Wales decided by a narrow margin in terms of the number of seats, but by a hefty margin in terms of the popular vote, that they didn't want Labour to have majority control in the National Assembly for Wales.

Which part is winning when it suits, and losing when it doesn't?

[Elysium]

It's disappointing that people being sick of Labour have lead to them cheering this on. Can you imagine what Welsh Tories would have said if in 2010 the Lib Dems helped form a rainbow coalition to keep the Tories out even though Labour lost the election (as opposed to 2015 when the Tories got in despite not winning the election) and now they are playing with Welsh democracy in a similar way.

I can understand many in Wales being sick of Labour, and especially sick of Carwyn Jones, but Wales deserves better than this and better than Reckless and Hamilton. Cheering this on would be like petitioning for a change to green just to piss off Tan who wanted red, it's not what we should want and it makes us look cheap. Can you imagine if Wales follows the America route of Obama's policies being blocked for no other reason than being Obama?

Well done to Leanne Wood who will bring in fresh ideas.

Can you run this. By me again please.

[Claude Blue]

Oh the irony - the fecking irony on that statement is monumental - what the feck do you think just happened down the WAG - democracy mate that's what. It's obviously not the democracy you believe in though.

Ruffling the feathers of Welsh Labour - is something that is long over due.

But hey ho - that's democracy for you

So the leader of the party with only 20% of the seats should have the FM position and lead the WAG?!!!!

That maybe your type of democracy but that's not what happens in the real world.

[xsnaggle]

**** me, it goes awful quiet on here sometimes doesn't it?
I cannot imagine what that might be

[xsnaggle]

**** me, it goes awful quiet on here sometimes doesn't it?
I cannot imagine why that might be

[Claude Blue]

Read my previous post.
If you vote for Proportional Representation, this is what you get. you cannot have your cake and eat it.
If it suited you when labour were winning why doesn't it suit you now?
you sound a bit like the F1 Red Bull team to me!

Lost me there.

I'm accepting the result of the election held five days ago.

Labour are the largest party therefore have the right to have the FM post.

Policy implementation will be on a case by case basis.

[tommy31]

Lost me there.

I'm accepting the result of the election held five days ago.

Labour are the largest party therefore have the right to have the FM post.

Policy implementation will be on a case by case basis.

Here is the fault in what you're saying. Glad we could sort it out

[Claude Blue]

Here is the fault in what you're saying. Glad we could sort it out

So you believe that a vastly smaller party should have the FM post and lead the WAG?!!!!!

Another one who doesn't believe in democracy.

[tommy31]

So you believe that a vastly smaller party should have the FM post and lead the WAG?!!!!!

Another one who doesn't believe in democracy.

I believe the leader who has the most votes in the assembly should be leading it. Democracy

[Bluebird since 1948]

Both Plaid and Labour are minority parties, no one won a majority so Leanne is well within her rights to put herself forward. However to say no deal has been done with UKIP and the Tories is a downright lie, a bit of honesty wouldn't go a miss. Plaid are all about power, they will do anything for power and if it means doing a deal with the devil then so be it.

The events today will hang over Plaid for a very long time.

[Claude Blue]

I believe the leader who has the most votes in the assembly should be leading it. Democracy

Then perhaps the Tories should have nominated Ruth Davidson as FM in Scotland?

[xsnaggle]

Lost me there.

I'm accepting the result of the election held five days ago.

Labour are the largest party therefore have the right to have the FM post.

Policy implementation will be on a case by case basis.

But even though the Conservatives are the largest party in Westminster apparently (According to some on here) they do not have that right.
Can we clarify when it is right and when it is wrong.
I draw your attention to the Plaid staement I previously posted above.
The 'right' so many people talk of are not 'rights' at all. They are privilages and aspirations our fathers and forebears won by fighting for them. All this rubbish about a person having a 'right' to anything is PC bollox.
Now I'm a reacist or a bigot again for saying that.

[tommy31]

Then perhaps the Tories should have nominated Ruth Davidson as FM in Scotland?

Yep, it's up to them.

[Claude Blue]

But even though the Conservatives are the largest party in Westminster apparently (According to some on here) they do not have that right.
Can we clarify when it is right and when it is wrong.
I draw your attention to the Plaid staement I previously posted above.
The 'right' so many people talk of are not 'rights' at all. They are privilages and aspirations our fathers and forebears won by fighting for them. All this rubbish about a person having a 'right' to anything is PC bollox.
Now I'm a reacist or a bigot again for saying that.

The Tories have every right to govern in Westminster. Where have I said differently?

The "right" as you put it is that the largest party governs - alone, in coalition or a confidence and supply agreement. As a minimum that meand the largest party occupy the top position, be it prime minister, first minister or whatever.

No idea what your rant about "PC bollux" or "reacist (sic)" or "bigot" has to do with anything.

[Claude Blue]

Yep, it's up to them.

But they didn't.

Despite the SNP being two seats short of a majority the Tories accepted the right of Nicola Sturgeon to be FM of Scotland.

Sad to say but it looks like Plaid could learn a lot about democracy from the Scottish Tories.

[Feedback]

We could have two Trollopes running things in Cardiff then...

[xsnaggle]

The Tories have every right to govern in Westminster. Where have I said differently?

The "right" as you put it is that the largest party governs - alone, in coalition or a confidence and supply agreement. As a minimum that meand the largest party occupy the top position, be it prime minister, first minister or whatever.

No idea what your rant about "PC bollux" or "reacist (sic)" or "bigot" has to do with anything.

I don't think I ever said you personally did.
But many on here believe it. It is OK when it suits and not OK when it doesn't. It is called left wing democracy where I live. (Except the 'left wing' they refer to are actually right wing conservatives. (With a small c))
By the way, thanks for hi-lighting the typo (sic). I will remember that. we all make mistakes - - eventually.
Have a good night.

[tommy31]

But they didn't.

Despite the SNP being two seats short of a majority the Tories accepted the right of Nicola Sturgeon to be FM of Scotland.

Sad to say but it looks like Plaid could learn a lot about democracy from the Scottish Tories.

They didn't, but they could have. They might have won, they might not have.

I forgot democracy was ensuring the same guy stayed in power without offering an alternative.

[Aramore]

I don't think the largest party ever has a divine right to rule. If a party has 40% of the seats but can not command the confidence of the other 60% of the seats and parties two and three form 30% and 21% of the seats respectively I see no reason why two and three could not form a coalition.

However in this situation Plaid are just playing silly buggers. I think they should be careful, they're more likely to galvanise Labour to refuse to work with them at all rather than force them back around the negotiating table.